playa2 wrote:Melo in Thibs is worth payperview

thibs is exactly what melo needs he might make a ball player out of him,

in chicago, thibs has authority and he will be able to shape this guy with some fire in his ass

RonRon wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Melo has become a more rounded player. His rebounds are way up and I believe his assists are up. Assists on this team are hard to come by because no one else can score other than bargs. In regards to grabbing guys or getting in their face that isn't melo and he isn't going to become that guy. Never ever. That takes nothing away from his play on the court or his intensity on both ends of the floor. Melo will almost always be your best player but he isn't going to be your best leader. Move on from that if you want to be successful. If you have a guy that gives you 27 and 9 every night you are ahead of 3/4 of the league. Bringing in leadership is on the management. Melo is and was the same person he is now. Maybe the thought was paying 15 mil to Tyson takes care of leadership but it didn't. It might be in the Knicks best interest to trade for Andre Miller if they can. They need a leader and dre needs a change.

I don't think a MAX deal at his previous contract with us is that bad, maybe even slightly overpaid towards the end of his contract at 23m +
But considering his age, it was at his "PEAK"
I questioned if he would be a good fit with us, especially with Amare since they both need the ball
Once he came over to NYK, he made sure he was going to be the Alpha even though STAT took the back seat to him, and was having an MVP considerate season prior to the trade

As I said, he is a volume scorer, not EFFICIENT, isn't a good defender much less a LOCK DOWN DEFENDER a 2 way player Duncan or nearly as efficient/skilled as him, isn't a creator/facilitator like Paul George, Durant, Lebron are, or even one like Dirk, listen he is still a talented player but I believe you need to put him in a core of at least 3 All STAR caliber players or at least 2 ALL STARs and a couple of good/solid versatile players like the ones we traded away in the deal (Wilson Chandler along with a few more SOLID rotation players)

At his age, mileage, HIS max starting at 27m and goes as high as 32m+, he isn't worth a MAX salary
At that price, you can sign 2 players for a MAX deal in the range of James Harden/Paul George/Hibbert/Kevin Love area
And for that reason, he isn't worth a max extension that he is eligible for
There is no way to justify his salary with this CBA unless you have a bunch of talent on the team that allows us to run a system close to TEAM USA on both ends
But we don't I NEVER will be able to if he opts out this summer and NOT recruit in 2015, instead
Till we gain obtain many players as huge upgrades with athleticism, versatile all round skills, the ability to shoot and go inside out, and they must be 2 way players

But there is NO WAY of being able to do this if he OPTS out this summer rather than not opting out and letting 2015 come then recruit *take slightly less that year with player option* and THEN in 2016 summer get compensated at a 20m+ extension, after we are able to add the talented needed to run a system similar to TEAM USA
Thing is this is all possible with the UFA's available in 2015 and he has recognized that what Lebron, Wade, and Bosh did was smart

Well, he has the same opportunity to form his core, or possible 3 ALL STAR trio, they all might have to take less, but at least he has the option of opting out and then getting a 20m+ extension in 2016
SO unless this happens in fact does happen in 2015, then he opts out in 2016 summer, I just don't think he is worth it

And even though I don't like Melo personally, i recognized he is talented and I think I am quite fair to judge him with his past results in the playofs, his inabilities, his inability to get players around him to play better, and his lack of qualities like with poor shot selection, streaky shot %, inability play a style that his team mates can play off of
Listen, he is going to be 30, if he opts out he and gets a max deal, he would be 35 by the end of his contract
There is a decent chance that he could decline greatly just like how Tmac did, Carter did, which were once known to be GREAT scorers as well
If I had to compare I think he resembles a BIGGER Jerry Stackhouse but at SF/PF than SG/SF that Stackhouse played

As his physical game declines so will a lot of his abilities show even more and could likely be a HUGE risk at his age/use/health

I don't let me "personal" reasons of not liking the guy affect my judgement of what I think he is actually worth

ron I think you are correct in what you are saying for the most part.. I think he is a very good streak scorer not player.. and when he is hot, is a great scorer.. other than that,there isn't much else.. so as you said, you have to surround him with 3 all star players.. that is extremely hard when the dude is pulling in 25+ mil... just ridiculous.. you are hitting the nail on the head here..

one thing I would like to point out.. Gilbert arenas dropped 60 points one year.. the next year, the wizards offered him a max deal... now arenas didn't take the full max, he took 111 out of the 126 mil he was due.. he saved the team 15 mil over 6 years and he said he did so, in order for the wizards to add talent around him... well how did that work out? It didn't, the wizards were never able to do that and his knees went south... 2.5 mil a year is not nearly enough to add necessary talent around guys like him, and even carmelo..

what was needed was arenas to take a cut large enough to sign players good enough to add to his team.. more like a 6 mil a year cut... and arenas wasn't going to do that, and there is no reason to expect someone as greedy as carmelo to do the same.. history shows he will go for the money, all else be damned....

And even though I don't like Melo personally, i recognized he is talented and I think I am quite fair to judge him with his past results in the playofs, his inabilities, his inability to get players around him to play better, and his lack of qualities like with poor shot selection, streaky shot %, inability play a style that his team mates can play off of
Listen, he is going to be 30, if he opts out he and gets a max deal, he would be 35 by the end of his contract

not only that, but the good teams in this league are getting younger, and fast... just imagine, we are not much better if better at all than teams like the pistons, celtics and sixers.. now imagine any of those teams getting a top 5 pick in this draft.. how quick can they rise in the east.. it is scary to think, because we don't have the young players or picks, or assets to keep pace.. we need to start the cleansing process right now.. nothing personal, and even if you are a carmelo fan, this should really make you think, if you want the knicks to actually be relevant over the next 5 years...