(The Trust Tapes)

1. A lead guard who can dictate pace and change gears to suit a running game or half court set. One who can defend the new generation of elite guards (Wall, Irving, Rose) without being embarrassed.(job Available, age under 25)

2. A 6'5 Complimentary guard who can be depended on for double figure scoring with a respectable per enrage, defend the opponents best scorer without being embarrassed (THJr is a possibility)

3. A 6'8 Skill forward who can advance the ball in heavy traffic, rebound and guard Lebron (job Available, age under 28

4. A 6'9 Strong Forward who can score inside, rebound in traffic and strike fear with the ball in his hands (Melo is unstoppable)

5. 6'11 Man in the middle who can direct traffic on defense and contribute to the passing game (Bargnani, Chandler on temp assignment, age 26-30)

6. A 6'6 burner who can hop off the bench and change the game with his presence (Shump interview, Job Opening)

7. A 6'10 sub strong forward who can wear down the other teams backups inside (Jeremy Tyler gets a look)

8. A backup point guard who can sprint off the dribble and make steals off the opposing guards dribble (Job Opening summer league discovery under 25) with excellent court awareness, anticipation and vision.

Are we straight on this?

http://www.landofbasketball.com/championships/year_by_year.htm

There must be a mix of veterans on the team with a few youth.
My point is you can make the playoffs with youth leading the way and you can make the playoffs with vets leading the way.

But to win a Championship today it must be led with Vets with yoots sparingly playing a role.

Bonn1997 wrote:

playa2 wrote:Taking off the kid gloves, show me what team in the list of CHAMPIONS below had youth leading the team to a title .
You won't because It doesn't exist !

http://www.landofbasketball.com/championships/year_by_year.htm

There must be a mix of veterans on the team with a few youth.
My point is you can make the playoffs with youth leading the way and you can make the playoffs with vets leading the way.

But to win a Championship today it must be led with Vets with yoots sparingly playing a role.

Taking off the kid gloves, let me just state that you're not even arguing against anyone here. Even the people who want the draft to be part of the rebuilding process know that you need veterans too. Unless you have the best player on the planet (Lebron), the only way you can build a great team given cap constraints is to at least have some very good players on rookie contracts. Given that lots of draft picks don't work out, you're probably going to need at least two picks (your own 1st and 2nd round) each year to make that happen.
Also, nearly all of those players you listed were drafted by the teams that they won the championship - that's *not* just a coincidence. A star you draft may not be ready yet to lead the team to the championship while he's on his rookie contract, but he can be building toward that and you have a huge edge in keeping him after the rookie contract expires.

given the bloating of the league with too many teams and the necessary corollary of a diluted talent pool, i suggest that any team that wants to build through the draft had better have at least two top 12 picks and in close succession season-wise. the falloff in talent and potential is precipitous these days, even accounting for great scouting.

pacers got george and stephenson in successive drafts. stephenson was a second rounder.
spurs got ginobili and parker two years apart. ginobili was a second rounder.
okc got durant, westbrook, harden in successive drafts. all three first rounders.
bulls got noah, rose, gibson successive drafts

our nearest rivals have this to look forward to:

atlanta 2014 and 2015
boston has two 2014s, a 2015, 2016, 2017-- yikes!
charlotte has two 2014s
chicago has two 2014s and a 2015
cleveland has two 2014s and two 2015s

That's the only tandem that won a title. Chicago hasn't won or Indiana.

dk7th wrote:

playa2 wrote:Parker and Ginobli joined DUNCAN and adapted to the standard he set.

That's the only tandem that won a title. Chicago hasn't won or Indiana.

my point is that both have been contenders not pretenders. at this point a conference finals or a finals appearance is all most fans are aspiring for. beyond that there is coaching and even luck. but you need the foundation in place. am i right?

You are right in YOUR POINT.

My point was the bottom line-winning Championships , not just making playoffs and maxing out at 2nd rd or conf finals.

Anybody who doesn't make the finals are pretenders, they don't have a shot at winning the NBA championship.

Nalod wrote:Lets get something straight:

What are you arguing? The starphuch system is rarely successful. The bottom line is BALANCE.......you need a players in their prime together to make a legit run.

Magic was a catalyst for the lakers who had Kareem and Worthy.

Larry Browns Detroit was a bunch of players in their prime. Heat had three stars in their prime. Wade is on the decline but Lebron is the best on the planet.

Yoots are assets that matriculate. You can grow them and they can appreciate and you can trade them for what you need.

Melo is his prime but Not tyson, not Stat. Iman is not prime and JR had declined. Hardaway is a nice piece but we dont' know what he turns to.

So Knicks failed because they did not accomplish the simple task of an ensemble roster together in their prime. Last year was a nice try but you don't go far in the playoffs unless you have in prime players.

This is quite brilliant.

This franchise is unfortunately famous for acquiring players past their prime.

Stoudemire is a classic example. $100M seemed like a good idea at the time.

You seem to be taking that point and jumping to the conclusion that the draft is unimportant and teams need to starphuck

Do you think it's just a coincidence that almost all the players you listed were drafted by the teams they won championships with?

playa2 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Yeah, we realize by now that that's your point

You seem to be taking that point and jumping to the conclusion that the draft is unimportant and teams need to starphuck

Do you think it's just a coincidence that almost all the players you listed were drafted by the teams they won championships with?

Not when they were young without seasoned vets around them leading the way.

I'm not knocking the draft, I'm knocking the deception that you win with young draft picks. They have to grow and stay on your team and they they are linked up with season vets to lead them that's all i'm saying.

Draft picks with no season vets to lead them will only bring you hope and potential , no Championships.

seems to me that history at one time pointed to building thru the draft. lately there may have been an increase in the aggregation of prime players but that is often if not exclusively thru collusion. memphis la gasol, boston minny garnett, miami.

knicks fans may be suffering from ptsd since we are on the outside looking in and as a flagship franchise we are a laughingstock.

it is a mistake to be seduced by these examples of prime players colluding to win because nobody is interested in "working with" dolan and the gms he hires don't have any fingers in other pies like kupchak, ainge, riley. nor are they clever or innovative like ujiri, buford, morey, etc.

but take advantage of dolan because he is a rich dupe? absolutely.

playa2 wrote:Just because other teams have a bunch of youths, what are they going to win ?

Making the playoffs is all they can offer,when they become mature some will leave for free agency and the team is splintered up from what it was.

There must be a mix of veterans on the team and then add a few youths on rookie contracts isn't that what the Pacers did ?

Previously all they did was make the playoffs and the Knicks themselves achieved that.

But to put together a Championship team you need seasoned vets.

Riddle me this, what team has won the Championships with all yoots ?

My point is you can make the playoffs with youth and you can make the playoffs with vets.

But to win a Championship today it must be led with Vets with yoots sparingly playing a role.

When the knicks went to the finals in 1994 and 1999 WHO WAS OUR YOOTS LEADING THE WAY ?????

What is really confusing to me is what have these fans seen in the last decade+ that makes them think this Knick management group can rebuild? They are ****-ups. They signed Amare and hired a coach that drove him into the ground. They drafted Gallo who barely plays and is going in for another surgery. Iman Shumpert? Year number 3 and he cannot put up more than 10 points in a game. We have a star who could possibly attract other stars. At least we have something to go on in Melo. But no, get rid of him and leave it to Steve Mills to bring back the Clarence Weatherspoon days.