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Thoughts on Jeremy Tyler????
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NYY1NYK2
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1/15/2014  5:50 PM
The keyword here is MINUTES.
Amare playing 3-4 mins every quarter, was hurting more than helping, when we just let him play, he scores rebounds, looks in rhythm.

When you play so few mins, you try to do everything perfect, and thats when the mistakes happen

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EnySpree
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1/15/2014  5:55 PM
NYY1NYK2 wrote:The keyword here is MINUTES.
Amare playing 3-4 mins every quarter, was hurting more than helping, when we just let him play, he scores rebounds, looks in rhythm.

When you play so few mins, you try to do everything perfect, and thats when the mistakes happen

this is true. coach has to look at more than just years of experience....case in point, JR Smith has 10 years in

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newyorknewyork
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1/15/2014  6:23 PM
tkf wrote:
EnySpree wrote:We have a keeper. That's going to be Kmarts perminant replacement in the starting 5 very soon. You can almost count on kmart getting hurt soon. Jeremy should get that shot. Same shot that woodson neglects to give murry. As sin as priggy is back Murry will be on the bench

as he should be.. murry is not good... prigs can run a team, murry can't.. dude isn't that good.. woodson is here to win now on a team that can't win now and really doesn't have the young talent to build with in the future.. he is in a tough position, right now he is in save his own ass mode, and he has little to work with and his idiot adopted son JR smith is acting up again...

But he can improve.

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CrushAlot
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1/15/2014  6:30 PM
tkf wrote:
EnySpree wrote:We have a keeper. That's going to be Kmarts perminant replacement in the starting 5 very soon. You can almost count on kmart getting hurt soon. Jeremy should get that shot. Same shot that woodson neglects to give murry. As sin as priggy is back Murry will be on the bench

as he should be.. murry is not good... prigs can run a team, murry can't.. dude isn't that good.. woodson is here to win now on a team that can't win now and really doesn't have the young talent to build with in the future.. he is in a tough position, right now he is in save his own ass mode, and he has little to work with and his idiot adopted son JR smith is acting up again...

I agree but I think Murry's upside is higher than you, Prigs should be getting the minutes if this is a playoff team. Also, have to give credit to Grunwald bringing in two free agents to the summer league, and then to camp and having both make the team. I think Grunwald had a really good plan on how to get the team younger in a non traditional way. Both Murry and Tyler are nba caliber players. If either turns into a rotation player it is a huge coup for the Knicks.
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CrushAlot
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1/15/2014  6:52 PM
NYY1NYK2 wrote:Jeremy tyler can play. Woodson is letting him rot on the bench
He proved it in the summer league and he proved it in the D-League
I think woodson is a certified A-hole, playing kenyon and amare continuously on a back to back. The team clearly looked winded. We had fresh legs and didnt use them.
Whatever he gripe with JR, it needs to be put aside. He was benched against miami, he came back and played a great game the following night, and you bench him after a back to back.

Are you kidding? It seems like everyone can play in the dleague. Chris smith had a 28 point game there. Also, Tyler's defense was criticized while he was there. Two minutes of garbage time and now Woodson is losing games because he isn't playing a guy that was a free agent because he was cut by his previous team. Tyler has been on 3 teams in 3 years. He has been waived twice and trade for a future second rounder. Not the type of guy a coach that is supposed to win is going to count on to save his job. Feel bad for Woodson. He is the only coach that I know that loses games because he doesn't use the 15th man enough.
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nixluva
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1/15/2014  6:52 PM
I posted this earlier and it's really a huge point in terms of determining Murry's value:

By bringing in Murry and Iman Shumpert to play the guard position, those are two defenders who can guard the best of them. When they have shared the backcourt together, the Knicks have outscored the opposition by 25.3 points. That is an outstanding margin, one the Knicks should look to take advantage of.

Toure’ Murry has made a difference, with the team managing a team-best 95.6 defensive rating when he has been on the floor over the past seven games.

Those stats are telling as to the potential of Murry on this team. This idea that Murry "is not good" is just stupid in light of this fact!!! I mean i'm always accused of not giving enough credit for defense and it shocks me that this is not reason enough for the kid to get more minutes. He's gonna get better offensively with more minutes and practice, but his D is already helping us win.

tkf
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1/15/2014  7:14 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
tkf wrote:
EnySpree wrote:We have a keeper. That's going to be Kmarts perminant replacement in the starting 5 very soon. You can almost count on kmart getting hurt soon. Jeremy should get that shot. Same shot that woodson neglects to give murry. As sin as priggy is back Murry will be on the bench

as he should be.. murry is not good... prigs can run a team, murry can't.. dude isn't that good.. woodson is here to win now on a team that can't win now and really doesn't have the young talent to build with in the future.. he is in a tough position, right now he is in save his own ass mode, and he has little to work with and his idiot adopted son JR smith is acting up again...

I agree but I think Murry's upside is higher than you, Prigs should be getting the minutes if this is a playoff team. Also, have to give credit to Grunwald bringing in two free agents to the summer league, and then to camp and having both make the team. I think Grunwald had a really good plan on how to get the team younger in a non traditional way. Both Murry and Tyler are nba caliber players. If either turns into a rotation player it is a huge coup for the Knicks.

FOR ME it is a mystery why grunwald got fired. I do think he was trying to get younger and honestly maybe there were some conflicts.. I mean maybe grunwald plans were to start transitioning away from carmelo and this older team.. and you know that just can't happen here with dolan..


Both Murry and Tyler are nba caliber players.

The book is still out on those two, but what the knicks need are more than nba caliber players.. we need some good young talent.. I am just not impressed with either guy.... THJ will be a nice rotation player.. shumpert I am worried about.. outside of that the pantry is bare...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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1/15/2014  7:20 PM
nixluva wrote:I posted this earlier and it's really a huge point in terms of determining Murry's value:

By bringing in Murry and Iman Shumpert to play the guard position, those are two defenders who can guard the best of them. When they have shared the backcourt together, the Knicks have outscored the opposition by 25.3 points. That is an outstanding margin, one the Knicks should look to take advantage of.

Toure’ Murry has made a difference, with the team managing a team-best 95.6 defensive rating when he has been on the floor over the past seven games.

Those stats are telling as to the potential of Murry on this team. This idea that Murry "is not good" is just stupid in light of this fact!!! I mean i'm always accused of not giving enough credit for defense and it shocks me that this is not reason enough for the kid to get more minutes. He's gonna get better offensively with more minutes and practice, but his D is already helping us win.

nixluva what is stupid is to continually overrate and overemphasize .... murry is not that good of a defender to make up for his other deficiencies.. He can't run offense, he can't shoot.. and if you are going to play PG that is a problem, at least be able to do one of the two if not both...


when they have shared the backcourt together, the Knicks have outscored the opposition by 25.3 points. That is an outstanding margin, one the Knicks should look to take advantage of.

again taking small sample size to overemphasize your point.. How much have both of them been playing in the back court together?

with the team managing a team-best 95.6 defensive rating when he has been on the floor over the past seven games.

and during that time, shumpert has also been on a mini hot streak and amare has been playing some of his best ball in the past two years..

again these small sample sizes when using stats.. when I watch him play.. I see a guy who has no actual position on the floor...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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1/15/2014  7:22 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
NYY1NYK2 wrote:Jeremy tyler can play. Woodson is letting him rot on the bench
He proved it in the summer league and he proved it in the D-League
I think woodson is a certified A-hole, playing kenyon and amare continuously on a back to back. The team clearly looked winded. We had fresh legs and didnt use them.
Whatever he gripe with JR, it needs to be put aside. He was benched against miami, he came back and played a great game the following night, and you bench him after a back to back.

Are you kidding? It seems like everyone can play in the dleague. Chris smith had a 28 point game there. Also, Tyler's defense was criticized while he was there. Two minutes of garbage time and now Woodson is losing games because he isn't playing a guy that was a free agent because he was cut by his previous team. Tyler has been on 3 teams in 3 years. He has been waived twice and trade for a future second rounder. Not the type of guy a coach that is supposed to win is going to count on to save his job. Feel bad for Woodson. He is the only coach that I know that loses games because he doesn't use the 15th man enough.

exactly!! I mean I am not a woodson fan by any means, but to blame that loss on him not using guys like tyler and murry is ridiculous.. woodson is in save job mode.. heck just last month dolan was waiting for him outside his office I think.. woodson is not going to put his job in the hands of a guy like you just described in tyler..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Sangfroid
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1/15/2014  7:51 PM
sealy wrote:Was glad Tyler played the few minutes against AJ and looked pretty good.

Agreed that Murry cannot run a team like Prigs, but he is without a doubt a serviceable player and would have definitely played Kemba better because Felton is just that bad on D.

It doesn't matter who is in because everyone just f'in switches non stop. It's beyond pathetic to watch Bargs/KMart get switched onto Kemba time and time again.

Felton's defense was a joke. Maybe he's still hurt, because whoever he was checking just turned the corner and took off. I can't even say that the defense that I saw was the worst because I constantly see these lame ass efforts from these guys ALL THE TIME

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blkexec
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1/15/2014  8:55 PM
sealy wrote:Was glad Tyler played the few minutes against AJ and looked pretty good.

Agreed that Murry cannot run a team like Prigs, but he is without a doubt a serviceable player and would have definitely played Kemba better because Felton is just that bad on D.

It doesn't matter who is in because everyone just f'in switches non stop. It's beyond pathetic to watch Bargs/KMart get switched onto Kemba time and time again.

THATS ALL TEAMS STRATEGY AGAINST THE KNICKS.....

My question is how come Woodson doesn't see this?

I'm not an NBA...Highschool...or even a pre school coach.

But I know if you keep losing games the same way, you try to change something up.....

The problem is Woodson is trying to save his job. But if we continue to switch on every pick, then you rather have young legs in the game, who provides better lateral quickness, like Kmart....Who can guard the quick cross over guards.

I'm tired of seeing Bargs play one on one with everybodies quickest guards....

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BigDaddyG
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1/15/2014  9:31 PM
tkf wrote:
nixluva wrote:I posted this earlier and it's really a huge point in terms of determining Murry's value:

By bringing in Murry and Iman Shumpert to play the guard position, those are two defenders who can guard the best of them. When they have shared the backcourt together, the Knicks have outscored the opposition by 25.3 points. That is an outstanding margin, one the Knicks should look to take advantage of.

Toure’ Murry has made a difference, with the team managing a team-best 95.6 defensive rating when he has been on the floor over the past seven games.

Those stats are telling as to the potential of Murry on this team. This idea that Murry "is not good" is just stupid in light of this fact!!! I mean i'm always accused of not giving enough credit for defense and it shocks me that this is not reason enough for the kid to get more minutes. He's gonna get better offensively with more minutes and practice, but his D is already helping us win.

nixluva what is stupid is to continually overrate and overemphasize .... murry is not that good of a defender to make up for his other deficiencies.. He can't run offense, he can't shoot.. and if you are going to play PG that is a problem, at least be able to do one of the two if not both...


when they have shared the backcourt together, the Knicks have outscored the opposition by 25.3 points. That is an outstanding margin, one the Knicks should look to take advantage of.

again taking small sample size to overemphasize your point.. How much have both of them been playing in the back court together?

with the team managing a team-best 95.6 defensive rating when he has been on the floor over the past seven games.

and during that time, shumpert has also been on a mini hot streak and amare has been playing some of his best ball in the past two years..

again these small sample sizes when using stats.. when I watch him play.. I see a guy who has no actual position on the floor...


I agree that Tour'e Murray needs to improve his playmaking ability. That said, his defense and ability to push the ball are two skills we can use now. He needs more polish on the pick and roll, but he's proven he can drive and dish, or hit the big men on the lob pass. You can see a difference in the transition opportunities we get when Murray and Shump are together. Tyler, on the other hand has longer road to travel. He's behind chandler, STAT, Bargs and Kenyon. The quickest way for him to make an impact on this team is through defense and rebound, but the defense part is going to take time as he learns Woody's (and I'm writing this with a straight face) defensive strategies.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
NYY1NYK2
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1/15/2014  10:48 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
NYY1NYK2 wrote:Jeremy tyler can play. Woodson is letting him rot on the bench
He proved it in the summer league and he proved it in the D-League
I think woodson is a certified A-hole, playing kenyon and amare continuously on a back to back. The team clearly looked winded. We had fresh legs and didnt use them.
Whatever he gripe with JR, it needs to be put aside. He was benched against miami, he came back and played a great game the following night, and you bench him after a back to back.

Are you kidding? It seems like everyone can play in the dleague. Chris smith had a 28 point game there. Also, Tyler's defense was criticized while he was there. Two minutes of garbage time and now Woodson is losing games because he isn't playing a guy that was a free agent because he was cut by his previous team. Tyler has been on 3 teams in 3 years. He has been waived twice and trade for a future second rounder. Not the type of guy a coach that is supposed to win is going to count on to save his job. Feel bad for Woodson. He is the only coach that I know that loses games because he doesn't use the 15th man enough.

Jeremy Lin was cut by the warriors, and on the brink of being cut by us before linsanity happened.
Danny Green was cut twice before he got his shot with the spurs.
Kenyon martin WAS BEGGING ANY TEAM TO SIGN HIM, and then he got his chance with us

All the kid needs is one shot

nixluva
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1/16/2014  4:48 AM
tkf wrote:
nixluva wrote:I posted this earlier and it's really a huge point in terms of determining Murry's value:

By bringing in Murry and Iman Shumpert to play the guard position, those are two defenders who can guard the best of them. When they have shared the backcourt together, the Knicks have outscored the opposition by 25.3 points. That is an outstanding margin, one the Knicks should look to take advantage of.

Toure’ Murry has made a difference, with the team managing a team-best 95.6 defensive rating when he has been on the floor over the past seven games.

Those stats are telling as to the potential of Murry on this team. This idea that Murry "is not good" is just stupid in light of this fact!!! I mean i'm always accused of not giving enough credit for defense and it shocks me that this is not reason enough for the kid to get more minutes. He's gonna get better offensively with more minutes and practice, but his D is already helping us win.

nixluva what is stupid is to continually overrate and overemphasize .... murry is not that good of a defender to make up for his other deficiencies.. He can't run offense, he can't shoot.. and if you are going to play PG that is a problem, at least be able to do one of the two if not both...


when they have shared the backcourt together, the Knicks have outscored the opposition by 25.3 points. That is an outstanding margin, one the Knicks should look to take advantage of.

again taking small sample size to overemphasize your point.. How much have both of them been playing in the back court together?

with the team managing a team-best 95.6 defensive rating when he has been on the floor over the past seven games.

and during that time, shumpert has also been on a mini hot streak and amare has been playing some of his best ball in the past two years..

again these small sample sizes when using stats.. when I watch him play.. I see a guy who has no actual position on the floor...

I don't get your points at all. You're talking about what you see as if that means anything. I'm talking about their ACTUAL PRODUCTION!!! See the difference between our 2 points? I get into these arguments with guys and what I always do is post some kind of supporting evidence for what i'm talking about. I do this all the time. Then I get responses like this where you just spout feelings and there's no way to debate on what you feel or think you see. I know this is a small sample size, but it's also reflective of what Murry and Shump are in the league for and that's their defense. We can expect them to give us that kind of effort almost every night. When they give this team that energy they help this team win. It's not unthinkable that Murry can improve offensively with more PT. However for right now his contributions are still positive enough to help this team win. Murry and Shump on the floor and the Knicks have outscored the opponents by 25.3 pts at the time that stat was taken. That indicates a net positive impact regardless of how they look.

It's not just about a hot streak. The defense has improved and as I pointed out with Murry on the floor the defensive rating is 95.6, without Tyson, which is excellent. The Kid just needs to be coached up on NBA offense.

playa2
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1/16/2014  6:24 AM
EnySpree wrote:
playa2 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:We have a keeper. That's going to be Kmarts perminant replacement in the starting 5 very soon. You can almost count on kmart getting hurt soon. Jeremy should get that shot. Same shot that woodson neglects to give murry. As sin as priggy is back Murry will be on the bench

Murray has been playing worse lately, he makes a good pass or two , but he's playing like he was still in the D.League finishing at the basket.

he's not horrible though. I still see flashes in the kid. I feel he makes the same amount of mistakes as any other point guard on the roster yet he is the rookie so he looked at more harshly....how many times does the opposing point guard have to have a career night before Felton gets benched? Priggy is wanted back so he can play with Felton at the same time cuz he sucks....Priggy is more annoying on defense but he gets horribly beat off the dribble. He also won't eve look at the basket. I think Murry plays better defense and scores and passes enough to be on their level when you balance everything out.

Not when the games mean more, that kid will be nervous as all get out.

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playa2
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1/16/2014  6:31 AM
nixluva wrote:I posted this earlier and it's really a huge point in terms of determining Murry's value:

By bringing in Murry and Iman Shumpert to play the guard position, those are two defenders who can guard the best of them. When they have shared the backcourt together, the Knicks have outscored the opposition by 25.3 points. That is an outstanding margin, one the Knicks should look to take advantage of.

Toure’ Murry has made a difference, with the team managing a team-best 95.6 defensive rating when he has been on the floor over the past seven games.

Those stats are telling as to the potential of Murry on this team. This idea that Murry "is not good" is just stupid in light of this fact!!! I mean i'm always accused of not giving enough credit for defense and it shocks me that this is not reason enough for the kid to get more minutes. He's gonna get better offensively with more minutes and practice, but his D is already helping us win.

What Murray brings is an element that the team lacks and athletic guy with long arms that plays in the backcourt.

The problem with Murray is when the knicks coach ask him to do things he's not that good at like running an offense. What he does well is run the floor and defends great on the peremmiter, his offense is a lil slow. It's going to take the rest of the season of Woody giving him PT to see him come around offensively.

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
playa2
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1/16/2014  6:35 AM
Tyler, there is nothing to judge him on by NBA standards yet.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
GustavBahler
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1/16/2014  6:42 AM
I watched every minute Tyler played in SL and while he looked great on the break, to say that he was raw in a halfcourt set doesn't adequately describe how he played. He needed some seasoning in the D-league. Turned off the Charlotte game by the time Tyler hit the floor, but it sounds like from reading this thread that his stint in D-league did Tyler some good.

Murry has looked like a rookie who is pressing at times, just like THJ has, without the deadly jumpers. I see someone who might turn into a solid backup with time. He's had relatively few minutes so far, lets see what happens in the second half of the season.

Whatever happens, Woodson and the team needed to see if Murry could contribute, same goes for Tyler. He's here now, still half a season left, plenty of time for both of them to make their case. I'm just glad that they aren't glued to the bench and they're getting some PT. I also want them to play to push the vets who aren't performing. You let some players think that the minutes are theirs no matter what and they won't give maximum effort, JR being the best, or worst example, depending on how you look at it.

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1/16/2014  7:35 AM
TYler and Murry would not be on the team if the team did not like them.

To get all mad about Tyler not playing more is comical. To play him based on Dleague or summer league and think he can do the same in the NBA is comical.

He is here, that gives him the opportunity to earn his coach's trust. He is getting in shape but 5 min of burn in garbage time does not make a career.

Danny Green got cut twice cuz he was not getting it.
Lin got an opportunity in NY because of injury and the kid defied the odds and stepped up BIG.
Murry is getting better, but not stepping in.
Tyler just got here. Lets not fit him for a HOF jacket quite yet.

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1/16/2014  11:28 AM
playa2 wrote:Tyler, there is nothing to judge him on by NBA standards yet.

Tonight's game would be a good time for Tyler to show his hustle and defensive chops, as I feel that "flu Tyson" is hovering over the team. Woodson needs to match up physically with Indiana tonight, and when one combination proves defensively ineffective, he must be ready to move on to the next. And please, straight man-man defense. No switches that leave Felton on Hibbert or West.

"We are playing a game. We are playing at not playing a game..."
Thoughts on Jeremy Tyler????

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