GustavBahler wrote:I wonder if its more about him being a sociopath than just immature? I know I'm being an armchair psychologist here but he seems to fit the clinical definition of one. Not just his on the court behavior.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/antisocial-personality-disorder/basics/definition/con-20027920

Antisocial personality disorder is a type of chronic mental condition in which a person's ways of thinking, perceiving situations and relating to others are dysfunctional — and destructive. People with antisocial personality disorder typically have no regard for right and wrong and often disregard the rights, wishes and feelings of others.

Those with antisocial personality disorder tend to antagonize, manipulate or treat others either harshly or with callous indifference. They may often violate the law, landing in frequent trouble, yet they show no guilt or remorse. They may lie, behave violently or impulsively, and have problems with drug and alcohol use. These characteristics typically make people with antisocial personality disorder unable to fulfill responsibilities related to family, work or school

Nah, I work in mental health and even though I don't really believe in diagnosis anyways, he would never meet the criteria to be deemed a sociopath. It just seems like a case of immaturity, in the sense that from his perspective he thinks basketball should be fun, he likes to party and when he unties shoe laces he's just joking around and can't see why people are getting so worked up about it. Of course people are getting worked up about it because it's representative of something else (his whole attitude and play this season). And you know, who's to say he's wrong and we're right- he's the rich man trying to enjoy life, maybe we take basketball too seriously.

Of course now there's the issue of how does he respond to being shamed- everyone responds differently, some become apologetic, some get defensive, some get angry, some become defiant, some rebel etc he seems like he'll be doing the latter.

smackeddog wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I wonder if its more about him being a sociopath than just immature? I know I'm being an armchair psychologist here but he seems to fit the clinical definition of one. Not just his on the court behavior.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/antisocial-personality-disorder/basics/definition/con-20027920

Antisocial personality disorder is a type of chronic mental condition in which a person's ways of thinking, perceiving situations and relating to others are dysfunctional — and destructive. People with antisocial personality disorder typically have no regard for right and wrong and often disregard the rights, wishes and feelings of others.

Those with antisocial personality disorder tend to antagonize, manipulate or treat others either harshly or with callous indifference. They may often violate the law, landing in frequent trouble, yet they show no guilt or remorse. They may lie, behave violently or impulsively, and have problems with drug and alcohol use. These characteristics typically make people with antisocial personality disorder unable to fulfill responsibilities related to family, work or school

Nah, I work in mental health and even though I don't really believe in diagnosis anyways, he would never meet the criteria to be deemed a sociopath. It just seems like a case of immaturity, in the sense that from his perspective he thinks basketball should be fun, he likes to party and when he unties shoe laces he's just joking around and can't see why people are getting so worked up about it. Of course people are getting worked up about it because it's representative of something else (his whole attitude and play this season). And you know, who's to say he's wrong and we're right- he's the rich man trying to enjoy life, maybe we take basketball too seriously.

Of course now there's the issue of how does he respond to being shamed- everyone responds differently, some become apologetic, some get defensive, some get angry, some become defiant, some rebel etc he seems like he'll be doing the latter.

Glad you chimed in smackeddog, was hoping you would. The only reason I suspected as much was not only JR's interactions with the team and the the league of late, but the fact that his recklessness off the court got someone killed, its a pattern when it comes to driving. Wish I had that article someone posted about it, it was eye opening.

JR had an "intervention" with his immediate supervisor (Woodson) his boss (Mills) and his father, before the Detroit game and he went out and did it again. Even if it was a joke, it seems on the surface to be more than just playfulness because he knows how he has torpedoed this team going back to his implosion in the playoffs and everything since, yet he shows no remorse.

I will of course defer to your professional opinion. It would have been hard for me to criticize JR believing that its more than just about him being a flake so at least I can still call him out when he F's up again. I was right believing that bringing him back was a mistake but I would have been much happier being wrong.

smackeddog wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I wonder if its more about him being a sociopath than just immature? I know I'm being an armchair psychologist here but he seems to fit the clinical definition of one. Not just his on the court behavior.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/antisocial-personality-disorder/basics/definition/con-20027920

Antisocial personality disorder is a type of chronic mental condition in which a person's ways of thinking, perceiving situations and relating to others are dysfunctional — and destructive. People with antisocial personality disorder typically have no regard for right and wrong and often disregard the rights, wishes and feelings of others.

Those with antisocial personality disorder tend to antagonize, manipulate or treat others either harshly or with callous indifference. They may often violate the law, landing in frequent trouble, yet they show no guilt or remorse. They may lie, behave violently or impulsively, and have problems with drug and alcohol use. These characteristics typically make people with antisocial personality disorder unable to fulfill responsibilities related to family, work or school

Nah, I work in mental health and even though I don't really believe in diagnosis anyways, he would never meet the criteria to be deemed a sociopath. It just seems like a case of immaturity, in the sense that from his perspective he thinks basketball should be fun, he likes to party and when he unties shoe laces he's just joking around and can't see why people are getting so worked up about it. Of course people are getting worked up about it because it's representative of something else (his whole attitude and play this season). And you know, who's to say he's wrong and we're right- he's the rich man trying to enjoy life, maybe we take basketball too seriously.

Of course now there's the issue of how does he respond to being shamed- everyone responds differently, some become apologetic, some get defensive, some get angry, some become defiant, some rebel etc he seems like he'll be doing the latter.

Glad you chimed in smackeddog, was hoping you would. The only reason I suspected as much was not only JR's interactions with the team and the the league of late, but the fact that his recklessness off the court got someone killed, its a pattern when it comes to driving. Wish I had that article someone posted about it, it was eye opening.

JR had an "intervention" with his immediate supervisor (Woodson) his boss (Mills) and his father, before the Detroit game and he went out and did it again. Even if it was a joke, it seems on the surface to be more than just playfulness because he knows how he has torpedoed this team going back to his implosion in the playoffs and everything since, yet he shows no remorse.

I will of course defer to your professional opinion. It would have been hard for me to criticize JR believing that its more than just about him being a flake so at least I can still call him out when he F's up again. I was right believing that bringing him back was a mistake but I would have been much happier being wrong.

Ha, my 'professional opinion' is really just a wild guess as I don't even know the man! (see that's why I don't like diagnoses as they're just guesses that people will sometimes defer to if given by someone who's seen add an expert!).

If it is just a case of immaturity (and maybe thats a bit unfair as it's a weighted term- we could just call him 'fun loving'!), then just think back to when you were a teenager- if your parents and teachers sat down and told you off would you have listened to them rationally? Would you have shouted at them and stormed off? Would you defy them afterwards? I must admit even now at the age of 33 I can still want to say f*** you if someone tells me off!- I think thats all JR's doing, and it's a perfectly natural response (but like I said it's just a guess on my part)

I hear ya. Its hard to know everything thats going on from the outside. Even at my age I feel the same way you do. I still like watching shows like Aqua Teen Hunger Force and laugh my arse off so there is still a kid in there somewhere, lol.

We are all overgrown kids on this board to some degree, being so passionate about guys running up and down the court putting a ball through the hoop. Some more than others.

If JR wasn't a very rich man(for now anyway) and under the spotlight, maybe He doesn't act like this. His old coach says he doesn't recognize him so maybe the money and the fame brought this out of him. Who knows? All I want him to do is at the very least is not hurt the team and thats all he's been doing going back to last season. Hope that changes but Im not holding my breath.

GustavBahler wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I wonder if its more about him being a sociopath than just immature? I know I'm being an armchair psychologist here but he seems to fit the clinical definition of one. Not just his on the court behavior.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/antisocial-personality-disorder/basics/definition/con-20027920

Antisocial personality disorder is a type of chronic mental condition in which a person's ways of thinking, perceiving situations and relating to others are dysfunctional — and destructive. People with antisocial personality disorder typically have no regard for right and wrong and often disregard the rights, wishes and feelings of others.

Those with antisocial personality disorder tend to antagonize, manipulate or treat others either harshly or with callous indifference. They may often violate the law, landing in frequent trouble, yet they show no guilt or remorse. They may lie, behave violently or impulsively, and have problems with drug and alcohol use. These characteristics typically make people with antisocial personality disorder unable to fulfill responsibilities related to family, work or school

Nah, I work in mental health and even though I don't really believe in diagnosis anyways, he would never meet the criteria to be deemed a sociopath. It just seems like a case of immaturity, in the sense that from his perspective he thinks basketball should be fun, he likes to party and when he unties shoe laces he's just joking around and can't see why people are getting so worked up about it. Of course people are getting worked up about it because it's representative of something else (his whole attitude and play this season). And you know, who's to say he's wrong and we're right- he's the rich man trying to enjoy life, maybe we take basketball too seriously.

Of course now there's the issue of how does he respond to being shamed- everyone responds differently, some become apologetic, some get defensive, some get angry, some become defiant, some rebel etc he seems like he'll be doing the latter.

Glad you chimed in smackeddog, was hoping you would. The only reason I suspected as much was not only JR's interactions with the team and the the league of late, but the fact that his recklessness off the court got someone killed, its a pattern when it comes to driving. Wish I had that article someone posted about it, it was eye opening.

JR had an "intervention" with his immediate supervisor (Woodson) his boss (Mills) and his father, before the Detroit game and he went out and did it again. Even if it was a joke, it seems on the surface to be more than just playfulness because he knows how he has torpedoed this team going back to his implosion in the playoffs and everything since, yet he shows no remorse.

I will of course defer to your professional opinion. It would have been hard for me to criticize JR believing that its more than just about him being a flake so at least I can still call him out when he F's up again. I was right believing that bringing him back was a mistake but I would have been much happier being wrong.

Ha, my 'professional opinion' is really just a wild guess as I don't even know the man! (see that's why I don't like diagnoses as they're just guesses that people will sometimes defer to if given by someone who's seen add an expert!).

If it is just a case of immaturity (and maybe thats a bit unfair as it's a weighted term- we could just call him 'fun loving'!), then just think back to when you were a teenager- if your parents and teachers sat down and told you off would you have listened to them rationally? Would you have shouted at them and stormed off? Would you defy them afterwards? I must admit even now at the age of 33 I can still want to say f*** you if someone tells me off!- I think thats all JR's doing, and it's a perfectly natural response (but like I said it's just a guess on my part)

I hear ya. Its hard to know everything thats going on from the outside. Even at my age I feel the same way you do. I still like watching shows like Aqua Teen Hunger Force and laugh my arse off so there is still a kid in there somewhere, lol.

We are all overgrown kids on this board to some degree, being so passionate about guys running up and down the court putting a ball through the hoop. Some more than others.

If JR wasn't a very rich man(for now anyway) and under the spotlight, maybe He doesn't act like this. His old coach says he doesn't recognize him so maybe the money and the fame brought this out of him. Who knows? All I want him to do is at the very least is not hurt the team and thats all he's been doing going back to last season. Hope that changes but Im not holding my breath.

I feel pretty much the same! When I was younger I used to live in fear of 'becoming grown up', because I thought it just meant you were meant to be serious all the time! Now I am bit older, I don't think I'm any more serious! But I think for me maturity is about seeing the wider picture and getting a bit wiser- learning that your actions take place in a wider context and affect other people. That's all I want from JR- just for him to get the wider picture and just dedicate himself a bit more to the team and winning.