StarksEwing1 wrote:IMO Van Gundy resigning was the turning point. Hnst been the same since. yes we won 54 games last year but we were mediocred in the playoffs

Playoffs last year was a fork in the road. 2 ways Knicks could've looked at it: 1) We needed to get bigger. 2) we took the Pacers to 6 games with 3 of our most important players playing hurt (Melo, JR, Tyson), so we should stay the course and improve depth.

Of course, Dolan chose wrong. I don't think the Bargs move was Grunwald.

meloanyk wrote:It took him ten years, luck in four teams passing on Wade, getting a last hurrah from Oneal to win a championship and then seventeen years and Wade recruiting the great James to win others.

Sorry but NY wouldnt have waited that long

Really? Because we've been waiting 40 years and counting.

KnicksFE wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

VCoug wrote:

holfresh wrote:

VCoug wrote:

holfresh wrote:There was no option to keep Riley..he faxed his resignation in..He left for part ownership of the Heat..

You sure about that?

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1995-06-16/sports/9506160389_1_pat-riley-checketts-riley-home

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/9418559/new-york-knicks-never-let-pat-riley-go

http://articles.latimes.com/1995-06-16/sports/sp-13797_1_pat-riley

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1995-06-16/sports/1995167158_1_pat-riley-riley-home-checketts

All these articles say the same thing, Pat Riley wanted part ownership of the Knicks and we refused to give him any.

Newsday reported Riley wanted 25% ownership plus 50 mil over 5 years and that was back in 1995...So his stake would have been about half billion USD at this point jsut off the face of the deal..What if the owners get profit sharing as well...Sounds like a good deal...

And he took something like $40M and 10% from Miami. We could have negotiated and kept him and we'd clearly be in a much better position now than with Dolan.

I know u guys are fans and use hindsight as a guide...But for the owners, it all business..No one in their right mind would give Riley 25% of their team to run it...I remember when Riley signed that deal with Miami people said the owner was starstruck...If the Knicks gave Riley what he wanted, with profit sharing, salary plus ownership of MSG stock could put him over a billion USD...Even u can see this would have been just stupid...

I think if you asked ownership this question in hindsight they might admit they would've done it.

No way any owner gives a deal that potentially cost him a billion dollars in hindsight especially for a coach/gm...I don't think three Championship is worth that much to a Franchise...The Heat is 625 mil right now...

You got it all wrong. Having Riley lead the team in a great direction would have brought in loads of money.

So Riley would have been able to get LeBron and Bosh here..U think LeBron in Miami have more to do with Riley or with Wade??

Lebron in Miami have more to do with Wade, but Wade’s championship appealing doesn’t happen without Riley, just ask yourself this, why Lebron didn’t choose Amare and the Knicks that offseason, because there is a huge difference in the way these franchises are run, believe me there is a reason why Riley has three rings since he left NY and Dolan got none.

Because Wade, LeBron and Bosh has always been best friends according to SAS..And I quote "they are peas in a pod"..

Silverfuel wrote:

holfresh wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

VCoug wrote:

holfresh wrote:

VCoug wrote:

holfresh wrote:There was no option to keep Riley..he faxed his resignation in..He left for part ownership of the Heat..

You sure about that?

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1995-06-16/sports/9506160389_1_pat-riley-checketts-riley-home

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/9418559/new-york-knicks-never-let-pat-riley-go

http://articles.latimes.com/1995-06-16/sports/sp-13797_1_pat-riley

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1995-06-16/sports/1995167158_1_pat-riley-riley-home-checketts

All these articles say the same thing, Pat Riley wanted part ownership of the Knicks and we refused to give him any.

Newsday reported Riley wanted 25% ownership plus 50 mil over 5 years and that was back in 1995...So his stake would have been about half billion USD at this point jsut off the face of the deal..What if the owners get profit sharing as well...Sounds like a good deal...

And he took something like $40M and 10% from Miami. We could have negotiated and kept him and we'd clearly be in a much better position now than with Dolan.

I know u guys are fans and use hindsight as a guide...But for the owners, it all business..No one in their right mind would give Riley 25% of their team to run it...I remember when Riley signed that deal with Miami people said the owner was starstruck...If the Knicks gave Riley what he wanted, with profit sharing, salary plus ownership of MSG stock could put him over a billion USD...Even u can see this would have been just stupid...

I think if you asked ownership this question in hindsight they might admit they would've done it.

No way any owner gives a deal that potentially cost him a billion dollars in hindsight especially for a coach/gm...I don't think three Championship is worth that much to a Franchise...The Heat is 625 mil right now...

You got it all wrong. Having Riley lead the team in a great direction would have brought in loads of money.

So Riley would have been able to get LeBron and Bosh here..U think LeBron in Miami have more to do with Riley or with Wade??

Lebron in Miami have more to do with Wade, but Wade’s championship appealing doesn’t happen without Riley, just ask yourself this, why Lebron didn’t choose Amare and the Knicks that offseason, because there is a huge difference in the way these franchises are run, believe me there is a reason why Riley has three rings since he left NY and Dolan got none.

Because Wade, LeBron and Bosh has always been best friends according to SAS..And I quote "they are peas in a pod"..

So why didn't Wade and Bosh go to Cleveland? It was mainly Pat Riley.

Nalod wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

Nalod wrote:h20 took us to the finals in '99

I thought it was Spree and Camby that the rest of the East couldn't keep up with in 1999.

The question was basically that H20 never did anything. He did.

You grabbed the essence of my point because H20 had a good supporting cast. In fact, Allan was no superstar but he did effectively spread the floor and that gave spree slash room, etc.

No doubt Allan was a very good player and not worthy of his contract. In a way he is like Joe Johnson of the nets. Dude can play but not a franchise player although paid like one.

I think Melo is similar.

Allan and Johnson are not marketable superstars as we have ordained Melo as such.

Bottom line is Alan Houstan had his moment against a rival in a BIG GAME and without it we don't sniff the finals.

Melo has yet to have his moment because we have not played in any big games.

Pat Riley wanted what we could not give him and his counter offer to the knicks was made with his heat deal in his pocket.

Lets be real also, Riles teams could not beat the knicks except for the "fight" series. Not until He got Shaq did he succeed.

The superfriends union was masterstroke and he made Dolan look stupid.

What have we learned? Stars without the right team does not work. For all his faults Allan with Spree, camby and a reasonably healthy LJ was a very very good team. With a good PG and the right coach that team might have had a shot. That team with Don Nelson was what Checketts had in mind. JVG was a great coach and great guy but the wrong one for that team. Grunfeld had to go but he was the architect and was moving in the right direction.

In hindsight had we allowed Ewing to walk or traded him before he broke his wrist JVG would have been gone and an uptempo coach driving the uptempo roster could have been a very good thing!!

Riley drafts Wade and the fortunes of the franchise were forever changed. Just one player was all it took.

Riles was able to tank from time to time by his owner to rebuild. It was not always smooth and he made mistakes but we forget those when you got bling.

Riles has had a nice legacy of coach's in his wake. Same for Larry Brown!!! None better than coach Pop!!!! He was his replacement.

Woodson is playing with his 3rd and 4th string PG and the leagues leading scorer is out. Before that the recent DPOTY missed most of the season and the reigning 6thMOTY has checked out and left the building. Even Coach Riley would have a hard time with that!

Only way to fix this is to have a one or two in prime franchise players and Depth. Really quite simple.

Miami has the best player on the planet at the moment and one of perhaps 20 in the history of the game that can carry a franchise on his back.

This is the moment that started the downfall of the Knicks. That's the moment that got Houston his max contract which the Knicks didn't recover from until Donnie Walsh signed Amare. You know how that turned out right? Pat Riley has not made mistakes likes this since he has taken over for Miami. His record says it all. At least we can trade Melo for something. We couldn't give Houston or Amare away. Both have just taken up cap space. I will give up that 1999 finals run for Pat Riley and his record with the Heat.

Nalod wrote:Riley and the heat got penalized for signing Juwan Howard for a 7 year $100 mil contract in 1996.

Lucky bastard the contract was seen has circumventing the system. Juwan was never the player that lived up to the contract.
Allan houstan was not a 100 million dollar man, but thats what was going on back then.

We wooed him from Detroit and gave him an opt out. My take was we promised him to be a top 5 paid player which is why we "bid against ourselves" and over paid him. Teams usually kept their secret deals.

I know Knicks were stupid, but was so with honor!

Riley made some mistakes on players and draft picks but time gave him other opportunities to make good. Its called Patience!!!

Think riles would not like another crack at the 2008 draft?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_NBA_draft

It happens to the best.

And he wasted more money on Brian Grant (I think his name was)- got saved big time by stern on nullifying the Juwan Howard deal (which I'm sure he only did because of the outcry in Washington!)

Ten years have now passed since agent Bill Duffy failed to notify the Miami Heat that his client, point guard Anthony Carter would be exercising his player option for the upcoming 2003-04 season. Once the June 30th deadline passed without a word from Duffy's office, the Heat were officially off the hook for the inflated $4 million salary that Carter, coming off a disappointing 02-03 season in which he only averaged both 4.1 points (on .351 shooting) and 4.1 assists per game, was set to earn the following season.

With Mourning's contract expiring, Pat Riley (who had vacated the head coaching spot and promoted assistant Stan Van Gundy) was set to have around $7 million to spend that offseason but with Carter and Duffy's blunder, the team were now major players in free agency with $11 million instead to play with. The Heat initially went after Los Angeles Clippers restricted free agent Elton Brand but the team matched Riley's contract offer, at the time the largest contract Clippers owner Donald Sterling paid out for one of his players (6 years, $82 million). The Heat shrewdly then went after their other prized restricted free agent Lamar Odom and were able to snag him with a 6-year $65 million deal with Sterling unwilling to match another big offer.

Remember because of an agents mistake it allowed Riley to obtain Lamar Odom which allowed him to trade for Shaq. What if Anthony Carters option was picked up???

Granted the Knicks are a disaster and have used their mid level on Weatherspoon, Jefferies, Jerome James. Always a pleasure hearing Isiah tell the fans and the media he left the team with Lee, Zach, Crawford and young roster, never mentions Noah, Aldridge, multiple picks, countless horrific mid level signings, etc. Never over pay for fringe guys that have limited skill the knicks never seem to remember that mistake!!