Knicks miscalculated and undervalued Lin

Overvalued Nash and Felton

toad wrote:

holfresh wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

holfresh wrote:

toad wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:It's ok we have Raymond Felton

Merry Christmas every body!

I remember last year when one person here whose name starts with an H kept saying Felton was better than Lin.

The only time Lin comes up is when Felton gets hurt...Isn't that amazing...The Lin supporters didn't utter a peep last year until Felton went down...Felton was MVP of the Boston series and where was Lin, on the bench hurt as usual...Please step up when Felton isn't hurt...

Stop being such a bytch and just admit you were wrong. It's silly. No one at this point thinks Felton is better than Lin. Not even you.

It's not even the point..Lin didnt want to play for the Knicks...He wanted his own stage..You guys are jilted lovers living in the past..He signed a contract so it was difficult for the Knicks to match..Good riddance in my eyes...But no, yearn for the lost love..Dude got beat out by a journeyman...

I don't know that he didn't want to play for the Knicks. I do know that he wanted to get the best contract that he could, fired his agent and hired a high powered firm, sat out of usa select basketball because he didn't want to jeopardize his free agency, and that his new agent released statemets saying it wasn't a sure thing that he would resign with the Knicks. I don't have an issue with his trying to get the best deal that he could. However, the deal he signed had a third year that made it very difficult for the Knicks to match. It seems to be the reason his name is being brought up in trade rumors now. The Knicks choosing not to match his contract made sense because of the amount it would cost the team to keep him. I think the only thing to debate is was the decision to not match the poison pill deal a business decision or an emotional reaction by the owner.

If he wanted to play for the Knicks, he would have never signed the poison pill contract...I disagree it was an emotional reaction by the owner..Lin and Houston made it difficult to match his deal...He just wasn't worth it...

That really is the dumbest thing I've probably read on this board. He's not going to sign the ONLY contract he was offered? The Knicks could've offered an extension, never did. They could've offered an initial contract in his FA, never did. They told him to go and field a contract to get a measure of his market value, which he did. The Knicks made the choice and they made the wrong one clearly.

Sorry for the harsh headline, but I’m having a hard time coming up with any other conclusion. While I haven’t checked the Harvard core curriculum lately, it must surely be light on math, psychology and logic, and completely devoid of Marketing 101. How else to explain the self-destructive actions of its most famous basketball alum, Jeremy Lin, who has taken the global phenomenon known as Linsanity and doused it with kerosene.
NEW YORK, NY - FEBRUARY 17: (L) Jeremy Lin #17...

(Image credit: Getty Images via @daylife)

After last night’s decision by the New York Knicks to let him walk to the Houston Rockets, almost all of the analysis has focused on Knicks owner Jim Dolan. He faced a vexing dilemma, given the back-loaded contract offer from the Houston Rockets that would have forced the Knicks to effectively pay $50 million for Lin’s services three years hence. (My friend Howard Beck of the New York Times provides a useful primer here.) How do you weigh Lin’s basketball and marketing potential against a very small sample set (he’s started all of 25 games in his career) and also against not just what he would be paid, but the larger ramifications of his contract down the line? Given that the adjectives associated with Dolan, backed up a dysfunctional track record, generally include illogical, vindictive, paranoid and dumb (and because I’m a lifelong Knicks fan, I’m being kind), he’s predictably being ripped apart.
The Knicks Made Smart Call Letting Lin Walk, But It Won't Help Them Win Chris Smith Chris Smith Forbes Staff
Jeremy Lin Saga A Product of Dolan's Ineptitude Running Knicks Tom Van Riper Tom Van Riper Forbes Staff
Why Jeremy Lin Is A Rocket Mike Ozanian Mike Ozanian Forbes Staff
Houston Rockets Make Play for Knicks' Jeremy Lin with $35 Million "Poison Pill" Free Agent Contract Allen St. John Allen St. John Contributor

In the end, though, I’m more fascinated by the choices Lin made. Dolan will be rich and reviled no matter what he does. Lin may have signed a big contract, but he also just provided the folks at Harvard Business School with a brilliant case study how to cost yourself millions of dollars and scads of influence when you’re not looking at the big picture.

To review, the point guard’s scrub-to-star rise in February – Linsanity! — has arguably been the best sports story of the year, played out on one of the biggest stages, Madison Square Garden. But the NBA’s complicated labor rules forced Lin to shop around his services in order to maximize his next contract with the Knicks. At first, he did so brilliantly, according to numerous reports, originally getting Houston to offer him roughly $5 million for his first two years of his contract (the maximum anyone was allowed), and then a $9 million balloon in the third year, with a team option for a fourth.

Various Knicks sources, including their coach, playing poker as deftly as a late-night drunk at Circus Circus, announced that they would match it, and that was presumably that. A global marketing machine would remain in the global marketing capital, as had been his goal all along, Lin just told Sports Illustrated.

And this where Lin flunked miserably. After the clumsy Knicks showed their hand, Lin and Houston agreed to add another $5 million to his guaranteed salary in third year – a true poison pill, since that extra $5 million would cost the Knicks an extra $20 million or so, courtesy of the NBA’s punitive new luxury tax, atop the effective $30 million bite they had already internalized.

I get why Houston did it. But why did Lin, as an equal party to the new offer, go along? I can only offer two theories:

Financial Certainty: With the revised offer, Lin guaranteed himself an extra $5 million in his pocket, three years from now. That’s serious scratch for a man who had been sleeping on his brother’s couch earlier this year. And given legitimate worries that he was way overperforming during his magical 25 game coming out, taking the sure thing now makes some sense.

But why structure it in a way so punitive to New York? If it was all about certainty, Lin could have instead tried to guarantee that fourth year (or even a fifth year). At $9 million per, that’s way more downside protection, yet spreading it out in a way that didn’t push the Knicks toward the fiscal cliff.

As for the upside, forcing the Knicks to even consider ending his tenure in New York is the truest definition of Linsanity. If Lin is even 80% as good as he showed in flashes last season, fronting a very good, very hyped Knicks team had the potential to bring him tens of millions in endorsements. But as Steve Herz, who cuts celebrity endorsement deals as president of IF Management previously told my colleague Tom Van Riper: “Lin leading the Charlotte Bobcats back to respectability wouldn’t be that interesting. It’s not something that Coca-Cola is going to play $10 million for.”

Insert “Houston Rockets” into that sentence, and you get Lin’s new reality. Rather than the golden boy on an obsessed-over team in the world’s media capital, he’s now an above-average player on a below-average team in a low-profile city.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/randalllane/2012/07/18/jeremy-lin-may-be-the-dumbest-harvard-grad-ever/

holfresh wrote:

toad wrote:

holfresh wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

holfresh wrote:

toad wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:It's ok we have Raymond Felton

Merry Christmas every body!

I remember last year when one person here whose name starts with an H kept saying Felton was better than Lin.

The only time Lin comes up is when Felton gets hurt...Isn't that amazing...The Lin supporters didn't utter a peep last year until Felton went down...Felton was MVP of the Boston series and where was Lin, on the bench hurt as usual...Please step up when Felton isn't hurt...

Stop being such a bytch and just admit you were wrong. It's silly. No one at this point thinks Felton is better than Lin. Not even you.

It's not even the point..Lin didnt want to play for the Knicks...He wanted his own stage..You guys are jilted lovers living in the past..He signed a contract so it was difficult for the Knicks to match..Good riddance in my eyes...But no, yearn for the lost love..Dude got beat out by a journeyman...

I don't know that he didn't want to play for the Knicks. I do know that he wanted to get the best contract that he could, fired his agent and hired a high powered firm, sat out of usa select basketball because he didn't want to jeopardize his free agency, and that his new agent released statemets saying it wasn't a sure thing that he would resign with the Knicks. I don't have an issue with his trying to get the best deal that he could. However, the deal he signed had a third year that made it very difficult for the Knicks to match. It seems to be the reason his name is being brought up in trade rumors now. The Knicks choosing not to match his contract made sense because of the amount it would cost the team to keep him. I think the only thing to debate is was the decision to not match the poison pill deal a business decision or an emotional reaction by the owner.

If he wanted to play for the Knicks, he would have never signed the poison pill contract...I disagree it was an emotional reaction by the owner..Lin and Houston made it difficult to match his deal...He just wasn't worth it...

That really is the dumbest thing I've probably read on this board. He's not going to sign the ONLY contract he was offered? The Knicks could've offered an extension, never did. They could've offered an initial contract in his FA, never did. They told him to go and field a contract to get a measure of his market value, which he did. The Knicks made the choice and they made the wrong one clearly.

Sorry for the harsh headline, but I’m having a hard time coming up with any other conclusion. While I haven’t checked the Harvard core curriculum lately, it must surely be light on math, psychology and logic, and completely devoid of Marketing 101. How else to explain the self-destructive actions of its most famous basketball alum, Jeremy Lin, who has taken the global phenomenon known as Linsanity and doused it with kerosene.
NEW YORK, NY - FEBRUARY 17: (L) Jeremy Lin #17...

(Image credit: Getty Images via @daylife)

After last night’s decision by the New York Knicks to let him walk to the Houston Rockets, almost all of the analysis has focused on Knicks owner Jim Dolan. He faced a vexing dilemma, given the back-loaded contract offer from the Houston Rockets that would have forced the Knicks to effectively pay $50 million for Lin’s services three years hence. (My friend Howard Beck of the New York Times provides a useful primer here.) How do you weigh Lin’s basketball and marketing potential against a very small sample set (he’s started all of 25 games in his career) and also against not just what he would be paid, but the larger ramifications of his contract down the line? Given that the adjectives associated with Dolan, backed up a dysfunctional track record, generally include illogical, vindictive, paranoid and dumb (and because I’m a lifelong Knicks fan, I’m being kind), he’s predictably being ripped apart.
The Knicks Made Smart Call Letting Lin Walk, But It Won't Help Them Win Chris Smith Chris Smith Forbes Staff
Jeremy Lin Saga A Product of Dolan's Ineptitude Running Knicks Tom Van Riper Tom Van Riper Forbes Staff
Why Jeremy Lin Is A Rocket Mike Ozanian Mike Ozanian Forbes Staff
Houston Rockets Make Play for Knicks' Jeremy Lin with $35 Million "Poison Pill" Free Agent Contract Allen St. John Allen St. John Contributor

In the end, though, I’m more fascinated by the choices Lin made. Dolan will be rich and reviled no matter what he does. Lin may have signed a big contract, but he also just provided the folks at Harvard Business School with a brilliant case study how to cost yourself millions of dollars and scads of influence when you’re not looking at the big picture.

To review, the point guard’s scrub-to-star rise in February – Linsanity! — has arguably been the best sports story of the year, played out on one of the biggest stages, Madison Square Garden. But the NBA’s complicated labor rules forced Lin to shop around his services in order to maximize his next contract with the Knicks. At first, he did so brilliantly, according to numerous reports, originally getting Houston to offer him roughly $5 million for his first two years of his contract (the maximum anyone was allowed), and then a $9 million balloon in the third year, with a team option for a fourth.

Various Knicks sources, including their coach, playing poker as deftly as a late-night drunk at Circus Circus, announced that they would match it, and that was presumably that. A global marketing machine would remain in the global marketing capital, as had been his goal all along, Lin just told Sports Illustrated.

And this where Lin flunked miserably. After the clumsy Knicks showed their hand, Lin and Houston agreed to add another $5 million to his guaranteed salary in third year – a true poison pill, since that extra $5 million would cost the Knicks an extra $20 million or so, courtesy of the NBA’s punitive new luxury tax, atop the effective $30 million bite they had already internalized.

I get why Houston did it. But why did Lin, as an equal party to the new offer, go along? I can only offer two theories:

Financial Certainty: With the revised offer, Lin guaranteed himself an extra $5 million in his pocket, three years from now. That’s serious scratch for a man who had been sleeping on his brother’s couch earlier this year. And given legitimate worries that he was way overperforming during his magical 25 game coming out, taking the sure thing now makes some sense.

But why structure it in a way so punitive to New York? If it was all about certainty, Lin could have instead tried to guarantee that fourth year (or even a fifth year). At $9 million per, that’s way more downside protection, yet spreading it out in a way that didn’t push the Knicks toward the fiscal cliff.

As for the upside, forcing the Knicks to even consider ending his tenure in New York is the truest definition of Linsanity. If Lin is even 80% as good as he showed in flashes last season, fronting a very good, very hyped Knicks team had the potential to bring him tens of millions in endorsements. But as Steve Herz, who cuts celebrity endorsement deals as president of IF Management previously told my colleague Tom Van Riper: “Lin leading the Charlotte Bobcats back to respectability wouldn’t be that interesting. It’s not something that Coca-Cola is going to play $10 million for.”

Insert “Houston Rockets” into that sentence, and you get Lin’s new reality. Rather than the golden boy on an obsessed-over team in the world’s media capital, he’s now an above-average player on a below-average team in a low-profile city.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/randalllane/2012/07/18/jeremy-lin-may-be-the-dumbest-harvard-grad-ever/

So, in your world, Lin should've done what no one in this world would do and take the QO in order to stay in New York? Or should he have sat at the table with Houston and refuse to sign the one contract he was offered? He's supposed to negotiate with Houston in order to benefit New York at the risk of losing his only offer. That's brilliant.

You're raising ticket prices you've won 7 playoff games in 10 years. Your franchise has little history outside of the building. You tell your fans signing Lin would be a $50MM hit, which is not true. You give up a pick for a guy no one wants and is likely getting bought out. Same stupidity of picking up a a one year deal and then amnesty that player. Bargnani is malkng 14MM a year brings nothing to yhrt table so instead of having an asset we have a liability and it cost us a draft choice.

The year Lin was here we were going to miss the playoffs without that stretch and the owner like he has done so many times thinks someone owes him something. How about owing your fans who play the highest prices in the league for yet another team of me first players who don't care about playing hard.

ToddTT wrote:Whatever the case... I just hope we never stop talking about Lin.

agreed! The fact that we never even gave him an offer should never be forgotten. We can't be mad at the offer he got when you never gave him one to sign.

toad wrote:

holfresh wrote:

toad wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:It's ok we have Raymond Felton

Merry Christmas every body!

I remember last year when one person here whose name starts with an H kept saying Felton was better than Lin.

The only time Lin comes up is when Felton gets hurt...Isn't that amazing...The Lin supporters didn't utter a peep last year until Felton went down...Felton was MVP of the Boston series and where was Lin, on the bench hurt as usual...Please step up when Felton isn't hurt...

Stop being such a bytch and just admit you were wrong. It's silly. No one at this point thinks Felton is better than Lin. Not even you.

It's not even the point..Lin didnt want to play for the Knicks...He wanted his own stage..You guys are jilted lovers living in the past..He signed a contract so it was difficult for the Knicks to match..Good riddance in my eyes...But no, yearn for the lost love..Dude got beat out by a journeyman...

That's not even close to an accurate account of what happened. Stop being disingenuous about it. He expected and wanted to be back, they let him go because they thought Felton was a better fit somehow. That's the truth.

When Lin presented the poison pill contract, he effectively cut off his chance to stay with the Knicks. It's unlikely thAt a team with team will sign the player after such a double cross.

Sangfroid wrote:

toad wrote:

holfresh wrote:

toad wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:It's ok we have Raymond Felton

Merry Christmas every body!

I remember last year when one person here whose name starts with an H kept saying Felton was better than Lin.

The only time Lin comes up is when Felton gets hurt...Isn't that amazing...The Lin supporters didn't utter a peep last year until Felton went down...Felton was MVP of the Boston series and where was Lin, on the bench hurt as usual...Please step up when Felton isn't hurt...

Stop being such a bytch and just admit you were wrong. It's silly. No one at this point thinks Felton is better than Lin. Not even you.

It's not even the point..Lin didnt want to play for the Knicks...He wanted his own stage..You guys are jilted lovers living in the past..He signed a contract so it was difficult for the Knicks to match..Good riddance in my eyes...But no, yearn for the lost love..Dude got beat out by a journeyman...

That's not even close to an accurate account of what happened. Stop being disingenuous about it. He expected and wanted to be back, they let him go because they thought Felton was a better fit somehow. That's the truth.

When Lin presented the poison pill contract, he effectively cut off his chance to stay with the Knicks. It's unlikely thAt a team with team will sign the player after such a double cross.

You mean after the Knicks management TOLD Lin to go out and get an offer to measure his market value (presumably that they'd then match)?

Why is there so much revisionist history with Lin? Is it denial? Dolan got a bug up his ass about Lin and it seems like Melo did too. Since Dolan is a short sighted, vindicting f@ckwad who will do everything short of fellating Melo, so he let Lin walk.

It really is that simple.

PS: Fact: If Lin were on this team he'd be the third best player.

meloanyk wrote:Exactly right Holfresh. Lamenting about failing to overpay Lin is total nonsense. Kid cashed in big but he isnt even a top twenty point if you even categorize him as such.. Avgs 4 assist and three to's which is one of the worst in league to go along with his crappy D. He's more of a hybrid imo. Knicks certainly need a better pg than Felton but would also certainly need alot better pg than Lin so the whole issue is moot notwithstanding the stupid monies he's owed

Let's not get it wrong, we could certainly use Lin..We need exactly what he does with pace and rhythm...But he is hurt as much as Felton..These threads pop up when Felton is hurt and isn't playing 100%...Lin has played in 67% of Houston's games this season and the Knicks would be in the same situation now...Lin is no world beater, neither is Felton, but when Felton is healthy, he is playing well, these threads are non existent..I'm sure I could find a lot better PGs at 8 mil per in this league than Lin..

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

holfresh wrote:

toad wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:It's ok we have Raymond Felton

Merry Christmas every body!

I remember last year when one person here whose name starts with an H kept saying Felton was better than Lin.

The only time Lin comes up is when Felton gets hurt...Isn't that amazing...The Lin supporters didn't utter a peep last year until Felton went down...Felton was MVP of the Boston series and where was Lin, on the bench hurt as usual...Please step up when Felton isn't hurt...

Stop being such a bytch and just admit you were wrong. It's silly. No one at this point thinks Felton is better than Lin. Not even you.

It's not even the point..Lin didnt want to play for the Knicks...He wanted his own stage..You guys are jilted lovers living in the past..He signed a contract so it was difficult for the Knicks to match..Good riddance in my eyes...But no, yearn for the lost love..Dude got beat out by a journeyman...

I don't know that he didn't want to play for the Knicks. I do know that he wanted to get the best contract that he could, fired his agent and hired a high powered firm, sat out of usa select basketball because he didn't want to jeopardize his free agency, and that his new agent released statemets saying it wasn't a sure thing that he would resign with the Knicks. I don't have an issue with his trying to get the best deal that he could. However, the deal he signed had a third year that made it very difficult for the Knicks to match. It seems to be the reason his name is being brought up in trade rumors now. The Knicks choosing not to match his contract made sense because of the amount it would cost the team to keep him. I think the only thing to debate is was the decision to not match the poison pill deal a business decision or an emotional reaction by the owner.

Is this thread about PG need or Lin? Lin left for the best contract given that he came out if the lockout in better shape and exploited people who were out of shape. He got his money. Good for him. Why would we trade for him though? Looking at Lin's skill set you can certainly get that for a lot less through FA or even a trade for a player with a better contract.