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Perfect Example Of ISO Melo Futility
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SwishAndDish13
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12/14/2013  4:23 PM
Looks more like a matchup zone but you have a good point. They are face guarding the kickout to the pg a lot. Would like to see them run something else. I do think our options are limited until somebody makes an open perimeter shot to challenge defenders.
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nixluva
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12/14/2013  4:42 PM
SwishAndDish13 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Knicks22 wrote:nixluva
totally agree with your assessment, though my read is that this coach - watching Melo tune out MDA for having the gall (!) to instill a system, tell players what to do, etc - decided healthier for him to basically sit back and capitulate to the free lance/ISO ball.

pity the coach isn't coaching, but, increasingly wonder if Naismith, Auerbach or Jackson could get these group to follow instructions.

I think every group of players wants to win. NO ONE wants to lose. It shouldn't be that hard for Woody to make a few calls for STAT to get the ball when he's hot and everyone else is bricking it up.

The real difference between MDA and Melo and now is that Melo was actually resisting and not giving effort. Melo wasn't just breaking plays, but when MDA finally got a PG to base the offense around Melo pouted. Now There is no Jeremy Lin for Woody to go to and so the only option he has is to tell Prigs to get the ball to STAT when he's hot.

When STAT isn't playing, Woody has to call for the spread offense with Melo in the post and everyone else behind the 3pt line. That set was the base offense last year and it's very hard to deal with without doubling Melo who can swing the ball and that is what they did when they were winning. Then you can mix in other sets to keep the defense guessing. We don't have that kind of technical approach to the game right now.

Stop with Lin. It's played out. Him and Novak took advantage of players dogging it midway through the lockout year. They made millions off it. Good for them. Neither has done much since. It was fun to watch but if people legitimately want to content on here and not have a team that is just fun to root for we need to stop pretending that a PG who is borderline top 30 would be the solution. We invested about 80% of the cap in front court players and didn't round out the team. That is why we suck. Not because we are not paying 10 mil for a PG outside the top 30.

Why the F are you going off about Lin for. That wasn't the point of my post. It was just a mention to express the difference between the current situation and that one. Melo resisted MDA's coaching and it is not the same with Woody. At the end when MDA left it was a complete shift in how the team was playing after Lin was given the keys and Melo was no longer dominating the ball. Melo pouted and wasn't giving effort and it dragged the team down with him. That was the reason I mentioned Lin. Only to show the difference between what happened under MDA and what is going on with Woody now.

It is true however, that this team needs help at PG. It's not about Lin, but the point being that the team needs a spark at PG like that. Regardless of how you feel about Lin it did help the team when they needed it most. This team needs improved guard play and even if Woody didn't change a thing an improvement at PG would have a positive effect. It wouldn't fix everything but it would help a tremendous amount.

This team needed a good year from Felton for this to have a chance to work. They also needed JR and Shump to put up good numbers. All 3 not playing well is a disaster.

newyorknewyork
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12/14/2013  4:55 PM
nixluva wrote:
SwishAndDish13 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Knicks22 wrote:nixluva
totally agree with your assessment, though my read is that this coach - watching Melo tune out MDA for having the gall (!) to instill a system, tell players what to do, etc - decided healthier for him to basically sit back and capitulate to the free lance/ISO ball.

pity the coach isn't coaching, but, increasingly wonder if Naismith, Auerbach or Jackson could get these group to follow instructions.

I think every group of players wants to win. NO ONE wants to lose. It shouldn't be that hard for Woody to make a few calls for STAT to get the ball when he's hot and everyone else is bricking it up.

The real difference between MDA and Melo and now is that Melo was actually resisting and not giving effort. Melo wasn't just breaking plays, but when MDA finally got a PG to base the offense around Melo pouted. Now There is no Jeremy Lin for Woody to go to and so the only option he has is to tell Prigs to get the ball to STAT when he's hot.

When STAT isn't playing, Woody has to call for the spread offense with Melo in the post and everyone else behind the 3pt line. That set was the base offense last year and it's very hard to deal with without doubling Melo who can swing the ball and that is what they did when they were winning. Then you can mix in other sets to keep the defense guessing. We don't have that kind of technical approach to the game right now.

Stop with Lin. It's played out. Him and Novak took advantage of players dogging it midway through the lockout year. They made millions off it. Good for them. Neither has done much since. It was fun to watch but if people legitimately want to content on here and not have a team that is just fun to root for we need to stop pretending that a PG who is borderline top 30 would be the solution. We invested about 80% of the cap in front court players and didn't round out the team. That is why we suck. Not because we are not paying 10 mil for a PG outside the top 30.

Why the F are you going off about Lin for. That wasn't the point of my post. It was just a mention to express the difference between the current situation and that one. Melo resisted MDA's coaching and it is not the same with Woody. At the end when MDA left it was a complete shift in how the team was playing after Lin was given the keys and Melo was no longer dominating the ball. Melo pouted and wasn't giving effort and it dragged the team down with him. That was the reason I mentioned Lin. Only to show the difference between what happened under MDA and what is going on with Woody now.

It is true however, that this team needs help at PG. It's not about Lin, but the point being that the team needs a spark at PG like that. Regardless of how you feel about Lin it did help the team when they needed it most. This team needs improved guard play and even if Woody didn't change a thing an improvement at PG would have a positive effect. It wouldn't fix everything but it would help a tremendous amount.

This team needed a good year from Felton for this to have a chance to work. They also needed JR and Shump to put up good numbers. All 3 not playing well is a disaster.

Whats your assessment of Lin getting trapped every play causing him to turn the ball over constantly limiting his effectiveness during this time?

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SwishAndDish13
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12/14/2013  4:58 PM
I agree with that. Thought it was another generic Lin is a superstar post. Dime a dozen on here. I pretty much agree across the board except I do think some of the Linsanity stuff was bound to fail. He was taking a lot of low percentage shots off the dribble and teams got mad that he was playing hard against players that were in cruise control. Seemed other teams were out to make a point, I think Melo takes too much of the blame there. Similar issues have come for MDA in LA with proven winners in the league.

The backcourt is awful. They rolled the dice with Fat-ton and had little choice. I think it's time to try a young guy and hope to strike gold. I also see a recurring theme with assessment of the young players we have. Always acting like we found the next big thing. Happened with Fields is happening with Shump. One day we need to sell high to try to improve long term.

nixluva
Posts: 56258
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12/14/2013  8:58 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
nixluva wrote:
SwishAndDish13 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Knicks22 wrote:nixluva
totally agree with your assessment, though my read is that this coach - watching Melo tune out MDA for having the gall (!) to instill a system, tell players what to do, etc - decided healthier for him to basically sit back and capitulate to the free lance/ISO ball.

pity the coach isn't coaching, but, increasingly wonder if Naismith, Auerbach or Jackson could get these group to follow instructions.

I think every group of players wants to win. NO ONE wants to lose. It shouldn't be that hard for Woody to make a few calls for STAT to get the ball when he's hot and everyone else is bricking it up.

The real difference between MDA and Melo and now is that Melo was actually resisting and not giving effort. Melo wasn't just breaking plays, but when MDA finally got a PG to base the offense around Melo pouted. Now There is no Jeremy Lin for Woody to go to and so the only option he has is to tell Prigs to get the ball to STAT when he's hot.

When STAT isn't playing, Woody has to call for the spread offense with Melo in the post and everyone else behind the 3pt line. That set was the base offense last year and it's very hard to deal with without doubling Melo who can swing the ball and that is what they did when they were winning. Then you can mix in other sets to keep the defense guessing. We don't have that kind of technical approach to the game right now.

Stop with Lin. It's played out. Him and Novak took advantage of players dogging it midway through the lockout year. They made millions off it. Good for them. Neither has done much since. It was fun to watch but if people legitimately want to content on here and not have a team that is just fun to root for we need to stop pretending that a PG who is borderline top 30 would be the solution. We invested about 80% of the cap in front court players and didn't round out the team. That is why we suck. Not because we are not paying 10 mil for a PG outside the top 30.

Why the F are you going off about Lin for. That wasn't the point of my post. It was just a mention to express the difference between the current situation and that one. Melo resisted MDA's coaching and it is not the same with Woody. At the end when MDA left it was a complete shift in how the team was playing after Lin was given the keys and Melo was no longer dominating the ball. Melo pouted and wasn't giving effort and it dragged the team down with him. That was the reason I mentioned Lin. Only to show the difference between what happened under MDA and what is going on with Woody now.

It is true however, that this team needs help at PG. It's not about Lin, but the point being that the team needs a spark at PG like that. Regardless of how you feel about Lin it did help the team when they needed it most. This team needs improved guard play and even if Woody didn't change a thing an improvement at PG would have a positive effect. It wouldn't fix everything but it would help a tremendous amount.

This team needed a good year from Felton for this to have a chance to work. They also needed JR and Shump to put up good numbers. All 3 not playing well is a disaster.

Whats your assessment of Lin getting trapped every play causing him to turn the ball over constantly limiting his effectiveness during this time?

This isn't a PRO LIN discussion. It's only a response to a post comparing WOody's situation with Melo to that of MDA and Melo. It really isn't the same. Melo isn't willfully resisting Woodson's coaching. Woody doesn't have a PG like Lin who has come in and changed the focus of the offense. That was the point being made.

Perfect Example Of ISO Melo Futility

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