Finestrg wrote:I agree with a lot of what's being said here. Why wait so long before acknowledging that ball movement was part of the problem and then electing to work on it and implement changes?? Where were these changes 10 games ago? 15 games ago?? I personally think he's making the same mistake (sheer stubbornness really) by not using Cole Aldrich more. Esp. tonight. OK we wound up blowing the Magic out but that game was close for half the game. They were having their problems defensively, closing out on 3-pt shooters AND allowing guys like Oladipo to drive right to the goal uncontested. At least Aldrich could've helped in one of those areas. And Woody knew he didn't even have Amar'e available tonight going in... Just don't understand Woody at all --- he seems a step slow identifying problems and then coming up with the solutions...Ball movement, this incessant switching themselves to death all the time which always seems to play right into the opposition's favor (Bargs winds up trying to cover a PG, our guards switch off on the opponents' bigs, etc. -- seems a little less obvious lately, we've been playing better, but it's still there), even utilizing his entire roster to the fullest...I said right from jumpstreet that winning as many games in the regular season was beyond important if we were really serious about competing for a chip. I wanted the best possible playoff seeding we could get for ourselves. Home court advantage is crucial come playoff time. To just piss away how many games here early on w/o coming up with at least some fixes to our obvious problems is beyond frustrating. I mean how do you just sit back and continue down the wrong path for so long w/o trying to implement changes for the better? That's this guy's #1 problem imo. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, right? OK, but by the same token -- if it's broke, FIX IT please, by all means!!! Don't just sit there on your hands. All of a sudden now we're working on ball movement?? Come on, Woody.

This is the part that really bothers me. He was bringing back the bulk of the core of this team from last year, so why would he not try to play the style that worked best for those players? rather than give him a pass cuz of the "roster" and "injury" the real issue was that he didn't have this team ready to go from the start WITH THE SAME DAMN CORE PLAYERS. People keep bringing up the new guys, but the CORE is basically the same. The easy thing to do was start playing the style they knew already and work the new guys into that system. The team should've been able to run the same playbook before training camp, in training camp and preseason. That's a couple of months of work this team should've had on a system that most already knew!!!

GustavBahler wrote:Great post Nix, I missed your exposes on bad coaching. Couldn't get enough of them when D'Antoni was coach for 4 seasons. How many of them did you do again?

I've made it clear that if I see evidence of issues beyond the coaches control that I'd bring that up and tho it's true Woody has had some issues to deal with outside of his control, that doesn't excuse his not handling the things he does have in his power to do. Woody simply did not face the same hurdles in his time here as MDA did. NOT EVEN CLOSE! I can go into extreme detail if you wish to debate the issue but I wish to spare everyone that horror. I guarantee that MDA would've done a lot better had they given him a decent PG from day one. Didn't need a great one just decent. This is about Woodson and to be honest MDA is doing just fine without a top player to lead his team and in a much tougher conference!!! We'll see how things go when Kobe, Nash and Farmar come back.

Woody is the issue here in NY. I think he has a lot to prove. You guys can not be so naive as to think Woody did a good job so far. He had more than enough to win games with and people act like he had the worst roster in the league. They only played that way cuz he didn't do a good job! Explain to me how this guy swore Ball Movement wasn't the problem and then soon as they focus on it and go back to spreading the floor lo and behold the team looks miraculously better. Just accept that he messed up as he did in the playoffs trying something else and it only screwed up the team.

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Great post Nix, I missed your exposes on bad coaching. Couldn't get enough of them when D'Antoni was coach for 4 seasons. How many of them did you do again?

I've made it clear that if I see evidence of issues beyond the coaches control that I'd bring that up and tho it's true Woody has had some issues to deal with outside of his control, that doesn't excuse his not handling the things he does have in his power to do. Woody simply did not face the same hurdles in his time here as MDA did. NOT EVEN CLOSE! I can go into extreme detail if you wish to debate the issue but I wish to spare everyone that horror. I guarantee that MDA would've done a lot better had they given him a decent PG from day one. Didn't need a great one just decent. This is about Woodson and to be honest MDA is doing just fine without a top player to lead his team and in a much tougher conference!!! We'll see how things go when Kobe, Nash and Farmar come back.

Woody is the issue here in NY. I think he has a lot to prove. You guys can not be so naive as to think Woody did a good job so far. He had more than enough to win games with and people act like he had the worst roster in the league. They only played that way cuz he didn't do a good job! Explain to me how this guy swore Ball Movement wasn't the problem and then soon as they focus on it and go back to spreading the floor lo and behold the team looks miraculously better. Just accept that he messed up as he did in the playoffs trying something else and it only screwed up the team.

Good man. I have criticized Woodson as well lately, its no secret. Just wish you would put this stuff on the back burner when things are looking up. If you had made just one thread like this in the previous 4 seasons that MDA was the coach I don't believe Crush or I would have brought it up. I won't try to convince you that there were times when MDA deserved one and I acknowledge that you believe otherwise.

I will say that I believe the coaching has been subpar this season but so has the effort and focus from some players. We are playing well now, Woodson seems to be stepping up as well as far as the rotation goes. Players seem to be settling in their roles, lets see where this takes us. Lets save the piling on for when Woodson deserves it. Don't believe that time is now IMO.

Do we play like a team or panic and revert to ISO like last years playoffs?

knickscity wrote:i really dont see the purpose of this thread.

It's both, no need to pick a side.

But I do believe better talent would make Woody look better, but I'm not sold better coaching would produce better results.

ApophisADL - Team still needs an upgrades in the back court.

How many people lauded the star acquisitions of the Nets during the off season?

Did Jason Kidd coach them up or down?

Or are they simply a year older and less cohesive wearing black and white unis?

Like the man said, we still needs an upgrade(s) in the back court.

Push it real good.

The coach is the one who controls the players minutes, so if he's not playing the way the coach wants them to, he could play another who would to send a message.

Many a game where players who didn't hustle or play the right way stayed in games, but Woody kept them in the games where teams were embarrassing us.

He allowed job security to take precedence over team performance.

Woody last year relied on veterans(Who won titles) to keep other players accountable and it worked.

The Knicks are who we thought they were, some players are showing signs of growth now, because losing is embarrassing not just to the player , but also to their family and friends too.

Balroy wrote:Nixluva - I respect the hell out of you for your work on Bargnani with the videos and analysis and other things you have said but you gotta let this go. We need Woodson because for this season there isn't going to be any better coach. Everybody makes mistakes. We gotta give him love and support. Some people make fun of the pre-game passing drill. Look what happened afterward. I say brilliant. Let's go man.

But why the hell did it take so damn long to identify it as a problem and then finally work on and implement better ball movement and spacing??? Why not come up with this a lot sooner, like 10-15 games ago? Why not have the team play this way (the RIGHT WAY btw) right from the beginning? That's what I don't get.

Finestrg wrote:

Balroy wrote:Nixluva - I respect the hell out of you for your work on Bargnani with the videos and analysis and other things you have said but you gotta let this go. We need Woodson because for this season there isn't going to be any better coach. Everybody makes mistakes. We gotta give him love and support. Some people make fun of the pre-game passing drill. Look what happened afterward. I say brilliant. Let's go man.

But why the hell did it take so damn long to identify it as a problem and then finally work on and implement better ball movement and spacing??? Why not come up with this a lot sooner, like 10-15 games ago? Why not have the team play this way (the RIGHT WAY btw) right from the beginning? That's what I don't get.

The Heat was 8-9 to start out a couple of years ago before Spo started putting a winning formula together...Took them over a year to figure things out...The Pacers were 3-7 or 3-8? last year before they figured it out then came together at the end of the season and in the playoffs...If these coaches were in NY, because of the unrealistic expectations of fans and the media, at least one would have been fired already...I have never heard a team that hasn't played together(Bargs as he 2nd option)figure things out day one...Never...