ApophisADL wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:JVG will get better production out of Melo Shumpert jr Tyson and bargnani. He will develop a winning culture with guys playing to their potential. Then we will go after free agents that fit and JVG will take their games to the ext level. Then we will attrack more free agents as we develop a winning culture. Little by little Dolan will learn to step away and will only be seen smiling during big playoff games

Get I get a amen?!

We got old PGs who can't stay in front of anyone. JVG isn't going to change that.

Knicks aren't getting blown out nightly. They are losing close games that they should be winning.

Our guard play is terrible. No defense and no offense.

This current group is awful especially the PGs like you said but the rotten players will change over time. Get JVG and bring back a winning culture. Let's see some real accountability. Remember when JVG benched all the starters cos they were loafing around and inserted his bench players and sparked the Knicks and they started winning?

Silverfuel wrote:Do you guys realize this will make the Knicks forum description relevant again?

Hell yea. I'm gonna go out and buy a 97 Civic. Bump that!!

Silverfuel wrote:I remember when JVG benched all our starters 3 minutes into the 1st quarter because he thought they were lacking effort. This one move will make us relevant. I can wait till the end of the season actually. It doesn't have to happen mid season.

Yep even if it's after the season but I think it's going to be sooner rather than later. Fans are losing interest and eventually are going to stop going to games, watching on TV and buying merch.

Dolan WILL make a splash. Hopefully it's JVG and not trading Shumpert for Jared Dudley

Man the thought of Shumpert being coached by JVG is very exciting in itself. And he loves him. Always praising him during telecasts. He is pretty critical of JR's knucklehead decisions and aimless chucking. He will make sure Melo, as the franchise/star player busts his ass 100% of the time. He will get the. Playing defense without switching. He will sit them if they don't get it. He sat Camby and spree. He doesn't care. The NBA has changed and players are way too cuddled. JVG is old school. I was in favor of a getting a younger coach but not ahead of JVG. JVG is proven and highly regarded around the league

Nalod wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:JVG will get better production out of Melo Shumpert jr Tyson and bargnani. He will develop a winning culture with guys playing to their potential. Then we will go after free agents that fit and JVG will take their games to the ext level. Then we will attrack more free agents as we develop a winning culture. Little by little Dolan will learn to step away and will only be seen smiling during big playoff games

Get I get a amen?!

I thought Woodson bought the "brotherhood of man" to the team last year. Got SMOTY out of JR, Melo leading scorer and 54 wins with Felton and Pablo.

Kidds leadership was important but his production fell badly.

And JVG is now the savior?

Your quote is not what dooms the franchise but the fans perception that a change will bring instant change. your quote could be taken for Lenny, For Larry, for MDA..........For Isiah.

JVG had players back in his run. Why would he want to take over this roster?

I never said it will bring instant change. It is a work in progress. Eventually we need a better PG but I guarantee you JVG will get the most out of his stars on both ends of the floor. Start playing respectable basketball, develop a winning foundation and players are going to want to come here. Dolan will back off like he did with Sather because he knows the last time this team was respectable was when JVG was coach. Dolan and JVG butted heads. JVG already admitted his biggest mistake was quitting a good thing last year to Michael Kay. By hiring JVG Dolan is also admitting mistake and in my opinion will back off and trust the coach. Without the official label of GM, JVG will have full autonomy when it comes to getting players and working with Mills who is not an overbearing GM

When the shots are no longer falling he exhibits eractic behavior on and off the court

A great young coach would be nice but I don't trust the Knicks to hire the next Vogel, Thib, doc etc it's risky. There are no risks in hiring JVG

gunsnewing wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:I remember when JVG benched all our starters 3 minutes into the 1st quarter because he thought they were lacking effort. This one move will make us relevant. I can wait till the end of the season actually. It doesn't have to happen mid season.

Yep even if it's after the season but I think it's going to be sooner rather than later. Fans are losing interest and eventually are going to stop going to games, watching on TV and buying merch.

Dolan WILL make a splash. Hopefully it's JVG and not trading Shumpert for Jared Dudley

Man the thought of Shumpert being coached by JVG is very exciting in itself. And he loves him. Always praising him during telecasts. He is pretty critical of JR's knucklehead decisions and aimless chucking. He will make sure Melo, as the franchise/star player busts his ass 100% of the time. He will get the. Playing defense without switching. He will sit them if they don't get it. He sat Camby and spree. He doesn't care. The NBA has changed and players are way too cuddled. JVG is old school. I was in favor of a getting a younger coach but not ahead of JVG. JVG is proven and highly regarded around the league

Only JVG could stop Shump being traded.

smackeddog wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:I remember when JVG benched all our starters 3 minutes into the 1st quarter because he thought they were lacking effort. This one move will make us relevant. I can wait till the end of the season actually. It doesn't have to happen mid season.

Ha ha, i remember that, and loved it at the time- and it worked because we won the game.

I like JVG, however lets not get too carried away with nostalgia.

The positives:

- He's used to coaching teams with s***y point guards
- He improved players defense (Houston went from awful to average, LJ became a defensive beast)
- He has the status to stand up to Dolan.
- guys like Shump, MWP, Tyson and K-Mart would love him
- If he can deal with Starks, he can deal with JR

However:

- EVERYONE hated his offense- it was iso-Ewing. In Houston T-Mac dominated the ball. People calling for a better offense, prepare for more Iso Melo
- He's been out quite a long time- not sure if his style would work with the Knicks (Like Thibs he rides players into the ground- would our medical staff allow that?), not allowed to be physical, etc
- He plays favorites too- people used to go nuts at how he stuck with his players and benched rookies aganist reason.

Good post. I definitely agree about LJ becoming an elite defender under JVG

But you are overstating the ISO thing with JVG. It's no where near on the same level as Woodson with Melo. Ewing got his 20 and got the ball in crunch time but H20, LJ, Oakley and even ward and child's out up double digit points. It wasn't all Ewing. His Rocket teams were not that good outside of tmac and Yao. He had To move Francis who was a knucklehead.

Is he mike Dantoni, George Karl offensively? No. Do we want those guys over JVG? No. We want to get back to the finals playing hardnosed defense and we want to get the most out of our stars offensively.

H20 went from averaging 12-14pts in Detroit to 24 in NY

He is old school with rookies but we don't have to worry about picks for a while. Shumpert is not a rookie and THJ is very skilled. If anything those Knicks team lacked the ability to scout talent. Taking Weis over Artest etc. our scouting department is good now and I believe Grunwald is still on as an advisor

GustavBahler wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Mixed feelings. At least we would probably start winning again, playing D, but JVG's playoff track record hasn't been great since leaving NY. If he were given control over the roster and it stuck, it could give us the buffer from mgmt and ownership the team desperately needs. Jeff would be smart to ask for it. Might finally put an end to JR having the run of the place. I get the feeling that JVG wouldn't mind if Melo left so he could get a star that plays better D. Again, having veto power over trades or signings could give him the flexibility to build the roster the way he wants.

Van Gundy loves Melo and would likely want to resign him but put him in the role that is needed for him to excel here and grow into a winner.

Now that you mention it, he had said nice things about him. I'm all for Melo coming back if there is some cap room left to get him the help he obviously needs, or a contender can be built in spite of him getting the max. Not if it means the status quo. As others have mentioned, JVG isn't afraid to bench stars. Would be a refreshing change from JR, hell or high water. Can't stand much more of Woodson coddling him.

I admit, every time JVG is commentating on a Knicks game (and I love his commentating), he always seems to go out of his way to praise Melo and rarely blasts him. It's always made me wonder if he wanted back on the Knicks.

gunsnewing wrote:This current group is awful especially the PGs like you said but the rotten players will change over time. Get JVG and bring back a winning culture. Let's see some real accountability. Remember when JVG benched all the starters cos they were loafing around and inserted his bench players and sparked the Knicks and they started winning?

I prefer Knicks remain on their win now strategy.

Knicks got Melo and the East is trash.

Knicks have no picks to rebuild anyway.