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This SI article sums up the state of Melo and the Knicks well
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CrushAlot
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11/24/2013  11:36 PM
dk7th wrote:this piece is incoherent garbage. awful. is he getting paid?!?
Not sure why you would say that. Do you think Melo and the Knicks don't succeed in a three star system where Melo is the number 2 guy? Do you disagree with the point that guys mature and become more of a team player as they get older and understand that they may need to change their game to compliment other stars to win? If so I am going to say that I am leaning towards Doc Rivers opinion based on his knowledge of the game as a player and a coach.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
AUTOADVERT
Bonn1997
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11/25/2013  1:24 AM
NardDogNation wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
arkrud wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:If Melo were on a championship team, I'd envision him taking very, very few mid range shots. He just doesn't hit a high enough % of them. He'd mostly take 3s and shots near the rim - (both from driving and from posting up). I could see him averaging around 18 PPG on 12 shots a game if he wanted to.

A more capable supporting cast, should help him get better looks and higher percentage shots in the process. That article was right in pointing out how abysmal our roster is at the moment.

He should be supporting cast himself... then he has a chance to get a chip.

That's nonsense. Kevin Durant shot 42% without Russell Westbrook last year. That is a prime example that shows that the team makes the star as much as the star makes the team. Why should we think that Melo can exempt himself from a fact that every star/champion has been beholden to?


Yeah, and he averaged close to a triple double

He averaged 30ppg, 9rpg and 6apg during the playoffs which isn't a farcry from what Melo did. And even without Westbrook, his guys are better than Melo's.

How did he manage to average 6 assists a game when his teammates shot below 40%?

dk7th
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11/25/2013  9:20 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:this piece is incoherent garbage. awful. is he getting paid?!?
Not sure why you would say that. Do you think Melo and the Knicks don't succeed in a three star system where Melo is the number 2 guy? Do you disagree with the point that guys mature and become more of a team player as they get older and understand that they may need to change their game to compliment other stars to win? If so I am going to say that I am leaning towards Doc Rivers opinion based on his knowledge of the game as a player and a coach.

assuming everything you read here is true then the conclusion is that melo is a greedy fool for coming to new york to be numero uno. he is also being intellectually dishonest when he uses empty calorie statistics to support his opinion on the evaluation of players mentioned. melo has value but the price paid in salary and assets was far more than whatever value he brings.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
Uptown
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11/25/2013  9:27 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:If Melo were on a championship team, I'd envision him taking very, very few mid range shots. He just doesn't hit a high enough % of them. He'd mostly take 3s and shots near the rim - (both from driving and from posting up). I could see him averaging around 18 PPG on 12 shots a game if he wanted to.

Most of Melo's mid range jumpers are taken under duress. Give him a play making pg who can collapse the paint on penetration, and kick it back out to Melo 17 feet away for an open jumper and watch the % go up....

Uptown
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11/25/2013  9:28 AM
NardDogNation wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:We shouldn't. But he's never played like a true #1 in his career - regardless of how many all-stars, future- HOFers, Olympians etc have been on his roster.

The problem is that he's never played with another "all-star, future HOF-ers, Olympians, etc" that are on par with the guys that his peers have. People tend to criticize Melo in the same breathe that they praise the Dwayne Wade's, Kevin Durant's, Kevin Garnett's and Paul Pierce's of the world while conveniently overlooking the fact that those guys have/had superior supporting casts. Before those supporting casts, all of those guys had similarly awful win percentages. So why are we judging Melo using a different standard?

^^^^ This.....

Bonn1997
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11/25/2013  9:31 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/25/2013  9:32 AM
Uptown wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:If Melo were on a championship team, I'd envision him taking very, very few mid range shots. He just doesn't hit a high enough % of them. He'd mostly take 3s and shots near the rim - (both from driving and from posting up). I could see him averaging around 18 PPG on 12 shots a game if he wanted to.

Most of Melo's mid range jumpers are taken under duress. Give him a play making pg who can collapse the paint on penetration, and kick it back out to Melo 17 feet away for an open jumper and watch the % go up....


Sure, he can still take open jump shots but I'd love to see him stop trying to create mid-range shots. I said very few (not zero) mid range shots
NardDogNation
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11/25/2013  9:57 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
arkrud wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:If Melo were on a championship team, I'd envision him taking very, very few mid range shots. He just doesn't hit a high enough % of them. He'd mostly take 3s and shots near the rim - (both from driving and from posting up). I could see him averaging around 18 PPG on 12 shots a game if he wanted to.

A more capable supporting cast, should help him get better looks and higher percentage shots in the process. That article was right in pointing out how abysmal our roster is at the moment.

He should be supporting cast himself... then he has a chance to get a chip.

That's nonsense. Kevin Durant shot 42% without Russell Westbrook last year. That is a prime example that shows that the team makes the star as much as the star makes the team. Why should we think that Melo can exempt himself from a fact that every star/champion has been beholden to?


Yeah, and he averaged close to a triple double

He averaged 30ppg, 9rpg and 6apg during the playoffs which isn't a farcry from what Melo did. And even without Westbrook, his guys are better than Melo's.

How did he manage to average 6 assists a game when his teammates shot below 40%?

Volume shots.

jrodmc
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11/25/2013  10:07 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/25/2013  10:13 AM
dk7th wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:this piece is incoherent garbage. awful. is he getting paid?!?
Not sure why you would say that. Do you think Melo and the Knicks don't succeed in a three star system where Melo is the number 2 guy? Do you disagree with the point that guys mature and become more of a team player as they get older and understand that they may need to change their game to compliment other stars to win? If so I am going to say that I am leaning towards Doc Rivers opinion based on his knowledge of the game as a player and a coach.

assuming everything you read here is true then the conclusion is that melo is a greedy fool for coming to new york to be numero uno. he is also being intellectually dishonest when he uses empty calorie statistics to support his opinion on the evaluation of players mentioned. melo has value but the price paid in salary and assets was far more than whatever value he brings.


1) One, how do you read this and conclude that Melo is a greedy fool for coming to New York? Was Stat a greedy fool for coming to NY and providing exactly one 1/2 of a max contract regular season?

2) And exactly what wholesome, nutritous statistics would you provide to offset these:

The Knicks gave up a lot of replaceable role players to acquire Anthony:
• Danilo Gallinari, who has averaged 15.5 points and shot 41.6 percent from the field in 128 games with the Nuggets. He sustained a torn ACL last April.
• Raymond Felton, who is back with the Knicks after disappointing seasons with the Nuggets and Trail Blazers.
• Wilson Chandler, who has averaged 12.3 points in 77 games with Denver.
• Timofey Mozgov, the "deal-breaker," who has been DNP for more than 40 percent of his games as a Nugget, and has averaged 4.7 points in 13 minutes when he has played.
• Eddy Curry, who has played 108 minutes since the trade.
• Anthony Randolph, who has averaged 6.9 points with two teams since the trade.
• Two second-round picks that turned into Quincy Miller and Romero Osby, who between them have played a total of 27 NBA minutes.

A first-round pick in the 2014 draft, which may turn out to be the most valuable piece surrendered by New York.
Not only did the Knicks receive Anthony, but they also acquired Chauncey Billups, whose contract (via amnesty) enabled them to land Tyson Chandler. So they were able to exchange those role players (whose value had suddenly increased thanks to coach Mike D'Antoni's offensive system) for one of the NBA's most prolific scorers and a championship center.

And don't forget, while you type your response, keep saying "57 regular season wins and never out of the first round".

Bonn1997
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11/25/2013  10:10 AM
NardDogNation wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
arkrud wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:If Melo were on a championship team, I'd envision him taking very, very few mid range shots. He just doesn't hit a high enough % of them. He'd mostly take 3s and shots near the rim - (both from driving and from posting up). I could see him averaging around 18 PPG on 12 shots a game if he wanted to.

A more capable supporting cast, should help him get better looks and higher percentage shots in the process. That article was right in pointing out how abysmal our roster is at the moment.

He should be supporting cast himself... then he has a chance to get a chip.

That's nonsense. Kevin Durant shot 42% without Russell Westbrook last year. That is a prime example that shows that the team makes the star as much as the star makes the team. Why should we think that Melo can exempt himself from a fact that every star/champion has been beholden to?


Yeah, and he averaged close to a triple double

He averaged 30ppg, 9rpg and 6apg during the playoffs which isn't a farcry from what Melo did. And even without Westbrook, his guys are better than Melo's.

How did he manage to average 6 assists a game when his teammates shot below 40%?

Volume shots.


What does that mean?
Knixkik
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11/25/2013  10:18 AM
jrodmc wrote:
dk7th wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:this piece is incoherent garbage. awful. is he getting paid?!?
Not sure why you would say that. Do you think Melo and the Knicks don't succeed in a three star system where Melo is the number 2 guy? Do you disagree with the point that guys mature and become more of a team player as they get older and understand that they may need to change their game to compliment other stars to win? If so I am going to say that I am leaning towards Doc Rivers opinion based on his knowledge of the game as a player and a coach.

assuming everything you read here is true then the conclusion is that melo is a greedy fool for coming to new york to be numero uno. he is also being intellectually dishonest when he uses empty calorie statistics to support his opinion on the evaluation of players mentioned. melo has value but the price paid in salary and assets was far more than whatever value he brings.


1) One, how do you read this and conclude that Melo a greedy fool for coming to New York? Was Stat a greedy fool for coming to NY and providing 1/2 of a max contract regular season?

2) And exactly what wholesome, nutritous statistics would you provide to offset these:

The Knicks gave up a lot of replaceable role players to acquire Anthony:
• Danilo Gallinari, who has averaged 15.5 points and shot 41.6 percent from the field in 128 games with the Nuggets. He sustained a torn ACL last April.
• Raymond Felton, who is back with the Knicks after disappointing seasons with the Nuggets and Trail Blazers.
• Wilson Chandler, who has averaged 12.3 points in 77 games with Denver.
• Timofey Mozgov, the "deal-breaker," who has been DNP for more than 40 percent of his games as a Nugget, and has averaged 4.7 points in 13 minutes when he has played.
• Eddy Curry, who has played 108 minutes since the trade.
• Anthony Randolph, who has averaged 6.9 points with two teams since the trade.
• Two second-round picks that turned into Quincy Miller and Romero Osby, who between them have played a total of 27 NBA minutes.
• A first-round pick in the 2014 draft, which may turn out to be the most valuable piece surrendered by New York.
Not only did the Knicks receive Anthony, but they also acquired Chauncey Billups, whose contract (via amnesty) enabled them to land Tyson Chandler. So they were able to exchange those role players (whose value had suddenly increased thanks to coach Mike D'Antoni's offensive system) for one of the NBA's most prolific scorers and a championship center.

And don't forget, while you type your response, keep saying "57 regular season wins and never out of the first round".

This list just goes to show that we didn't give up that much to acquire him, definitely much less than we initially thought. We can now say that with hinesight. The most valuable asset will be this year's draft pick. Last year's pick turned into Royce White, and their were very few productive players drafted behind him. In addition, i don't think we would want to have big money tied into Gallo and Chandler right now. Paying them thru 2016 and being tied into the duration of Stoudemire's contract over the last 4 years of it would have been a disaster. The opposing theory that another better deal would have come up instead of Melo is of course possible, but was always wishful thinking, especially given how good the deals for Paul, Dwight, and Harden were. Hell, even Iguodala brought back Bynum, who at the time was the 2nd best center in the league. We would be in a far tougher place than we are right now, still fresh off a 54-win season, thats for sure.

GustavBahler
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11/25/2013  10:29 AM
I was against the trade at first because I wanted to see what we had in our prospects. I didn't believe we saw enough not to make this trade, and their record after leaving the Knicks has borne that out IMO. I still don't want to break the bank for Melo if we are hamstrung from adding another quality player to play alongside of him. He's pushing 30 and has started breaking down in the last couple of seasons.
Knixkik
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11/25/2013  10:35 AM
GustavBahler wrote:I was against the trade at first because I wanted to see what we had in our prospects. I didn't believe we saw enough not to make this trade, and their record after leaving the Knicks has borne that out IMO. I still don't want to break the bank for Melo if we are hamstrung from adding another quality player to play alongside of him. He's pushing 30 and has started breaking down in the last couple of seasons.

The key is to make sure we have the ability to add another player. Either we leave enough estimated cap space to acquire a max free agent or determine we are able to obtain a top player via trade using our expiring contracts next season. One or the other must been executed though.

Bonn1997
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11/25/2013  10:42 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/25/2013  10:45 AM
Knixkik wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
dk7th wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:this piece is incoherent garbage. awful. is he getting paid?!?
Not sure why you would say that. Do you think Melo and the Knicks don't succeed in a three star system where Melo is the number 2 guy? Do you disagree with the point that guys mature and become more of a team player as they get older and understand that they may need to change their game to compliment other stars to win? If so I am going to say that I am leaning towards Doc Rivers opinion based on his knowledge of the game as a player and a coach.

assuming everything you read here is true then the conclusion is that melo is a greedy fool for coming to new york to be numero uno. he is also being intellectually dishonest when he uses empty calorie statistics to support his opinion on the evaluation of players mentioned. melo has value but the price paid in salary and assets was far more than whatever value he brings.


1) One, how do you read this and conclude that Melo a greedy fool for coming to New York? Was Stat a greedy fool for coming to NY and providing 1/2 of a max contract regular season?

2) And exactly what wholesome, nutritous statistics would you provide to offset these:

The Knicks gave up a lot of replaceable role players to acquire Anthony:
• Danilo Gallinari, who has averaged 15.5 points and shot 41.6 percent from the field in 128 games with the Nuggets. He sustained a torn ACL last April.
• Raymond Felton, who is back with the Knicks after disappointing seasons with the Nuggets and Trail Blazers.
• Wilson Chandler, who has averaged 12.3 points in 77 games with Denver.
• Timofey Mozgov, the "deal-breaker," who has been DNP for more than 40 percent of his games as a Nugget, and has averaged 4.7 points in 13 minutes when he has played.
• Eddy Curry, who has played 108 minutes since the trade.
• Anthony Randolph, who has averaged 6.9 points with two teams since the trade.
• Two second-round picks that turned into Quincy Miller and Romero Osby, who between them have played a total of 27 NBA minutes.
• A first-round pick in the 2014 draft, which may turn out to be the most valuable piece surrendered by New York.
Not only did the Knicks receive Anthony, but they also acquired Chauncey Billups, whose contract (via amnesty) enabled them to land Tyson Chandler. So they were able to exchange those role players (whose value had suddenly increased thanks to coach Mike D'Antoni's offensive system) for one of the NBA's most prolific scorers and a championship center.

And don't forget, while you type your response, keep saying "57 regular season wins and never out of the first round".

This list just goes to show that we didn't give up that much to acquire him, definitely much less than we initially thought. We can now say that with hinesight. The most valuable asset will be this year's draft pick. Last year's pick turned into Royce White, and their were very few productive players drafted behind him. In addition, i don't think we would want to have big money tied into Gallo and Chandler right now. Paying them thru 2016 and being tied into the duration of Stoudemire's contract over the last 4 years of it would have been a disaster. The opposing theory that another better deal would have come up instead of Melo is of course possible, but was always wishful thinking, especially given how good the deals for Paul, Dwight, and Harden were. Hell, even Iguodala brought back Bynum, who at the time was the 2nd best center in the league. We would be in a far tougher place than we are right now, still fresh off a 54-win season, thats for sure.


Giving up a lot of valuable small pieces adds up. If you get a quarter of an inch of snow for 72 straight hours, you have a blizzard. And if all you have is a little shovel, you're screwed
jrodmc
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11/25/2013  11:45 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/25/2013  11:47 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
dk7th wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:this piece is incoherent garbage. awful. is he getting paid?!?
Not sure why you would say that. Do you think Melo and the Knicks don't succeed in a three star system where Melo is the number 2 guy? Do you disagree with the point that guys mature and become more of a team player as they get older and understand that they may need to change their game to compliment other stars to win? If so I am going to say that I am leaning towards Doc Rivers opinion based on his knowledge of the game as a player and a coach.

assuming everything you read here is true then the conclusion is that melo is a greedy fool for coming to new york to be numero uno. he is also being intellectually dishonest when he uses empty calorie statistics to support his opinion on the evaluation of players mentioned. melo has value but the price paid in salary and assets was far more than whatever value he brings.


1) One, how do you read this and conclude that Melo a greedy fool for coming to New York? Was Stat a greedy fool for coming to NY and providing 1/2 of a max contract regular season?

2) And exactly what wholesome, nutritous statistics would you provide to offset these:

The Knicks gave up a lot of replaceable role players to acquire Anthony:
• Danilo Gallinari, who has averaged 15.5 points and shot 41.6 percent from the field in 128 games with the Nuggets. He sustained a torn ACL last April.
• Raymond Felton, who is back with the Knicks after disappointing seasons with the Nuggets and Trail Blazers.
• Wilson Chandler, who has averaged 12.3 points in 77 games with Denver.
• Timofey Mozgov, the "deal-breaker," who has been DNP for more than 40 percent of his games as a Nugget, and has averaged 4.7 points in 13 minutes when he has played.
• Eddy Curry, who has played 108 minutes since the trade.
• Anthony Randolph, who has averaged 6.9 points with two teams since the trade.
• Two second-round picks that turned into Quincy Miller and Romero Osby, who between them have played a total of 27 NBA minutes.
• A first-round pick in the 2014 draft, which may turn out to be the most valuable piece surrendered by New York.
Not only did the Knicks receive Anthony, but they also acquired Chauncey Billups, whose contract (via amnesty) enabled them to land Tyson Chandler. So they were able to exchange those role players (whose value had suddenly increased thanks to coach Mike D'Antoni's offensive system) for one of the NBA's most prolific scorers and a championship center.

And don't forget, while you type your response, keep saying "57 regular season wins and never out of the first round".

This list just goes to show that we didn't give up that much to acquire him, definitely much less than we initially thought. We can now say that with hinesight. The most valuable asset will be this year's draft pick. Last year's pick turned into Royce White, and their were very few productive players drafted behind him. In addition, i don't think we would want to have big money tied into Gallo and Chandler right now. Paying them thru 2016 and being tied into the duration of Stoudemire's contract over the last 4 years of it would have been a disaster. The opposing theory that another better deal would have come up instead of Melo is of course possible, but was always wishful thinking, especially given how good the deals for Paul, Dwight, and Harden were. Hell, even Iguodala brought back Bynum, who at the time was the 2nd best center in the league. We would be in a far tougher place than we are right now, still fresh off a 54-win season, thats for sure.


Giving up a lot of valuable small pieces adds up. If you get a quarter of an inch of snow for 72 straight hours, you have a blizzard. And if all you have is a little shovel, you're screwed

Fail, in spades. Actually, it's been going on 4 years, Bonn, not 72 hours. And you've gotten a grand total of a quarter inch of snow right there. And you have a prolific scorer who's also rebounding and on his way to the HOF. And the Tyson shovel has a chip and a DPOY.

Try again.

dk7th
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11/25/2013  11:47 AM
jrodmc wrote:
dk7th wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:this piece is incoherent garbage. awful. is he getting paid?!?
Not sure why you would say that. Do you think Melo and the Knicks don't succeed in a three star system where Melo is the number 2 guy? Do you disagree with the point that guys mature and become more of a team player as they get older and understand that they may need to change their game to compliment other stars to win? If so I am going to say that I am leaning towards Doc Rivers opinion based on his knowledge of the game as a player and a coach.

assuming everything you read here is true then the conclusion is that melo is a greedy fool for coming to new york to be numero uno. he is also being intellectually dishonest when he uses empty calorie statistics to support his opinion on the evaluation of players mentioned. melo has value but the price paid in salary and assets was far more than whatever value he brings.


1) One, how do you read this and conclude that Melo is a greedy fool for coming to New York? Was Stat a greedy fool for coming to NY and providing exactly one 1/2 of a max contract regular season?

2) And exactly what wholesome, nutritous statistics would you provide to offset these:

The Knicks gave up a lot of replaceable role players to acquire Anthony:
• Danilo Gallinari, who has averaged 15.5 points and shot 41.6 percent from the field in 128 games with the Nuggets. He sustained a torn ACL last April.
• Raymond Felton, who is back with the Knicks after disappointing seasons with the Nuggets and Trail Blazers.
• Wilson Chandler, who has averaged 12.3 points in 77 games with Denver.
• Timofey Mozgov, the "deal-breaker," who has been DNP for more than 40 percent of his games as a Nugget, and has averaged 4.7 points in 13 minutes when he has played.
• Eddy Curry, who has played 108 minutes since the trade.
• Anthony Randolph, who has averaged 6.9 points with two teams since the trade.
• Two second-round picks that turned into Quincy Miller and Romero Osby, who between them have played a total of 27 NBA minutes.

A first-round pick in the 2014 draft, which may turn out to be the most valuable piece surrendered by New York.
Not only did the Knicks receive Anthony, but they also acquired Chauncey Billups, whose contract (via amnesty) enabled them to land Tyson Chandler. So they were able to exchange those role players (whose value had suddenly increased thanks to coach Mike D'Antoni's offensive system) for one of the NBA's most prolific scorers and a championship center.

And don't forget, while you type your response, keep saying "57 regular season wins and never out of the first round".

first i don't compare apples to oranges. say what you wish about stoudemire but he came as a free agent and that means it was just dolan's money. moreover, dolan-- beyond the tacit mandate of the league to clean up his and isiah's mess by bringing in walsh-- drives the agenda for this team. a courageous, uncynical owner would have foregone the two-star approach and built patiently until a better situation came along. he had the option to do so but like most of the knick fanbase, he is an impatient dullard that prizes entertainment over winning.

building a winner requires patience and shrewdness. he lacks both but deep pockets keep you in the game. he is like a bad poker player who keeps replenishing his chips even if he is losing because he is willing to pay for being amused even as he is losing.

second, the writer is missing the obvious: the game has passed carmelo anthony by. it's a new era where efficiency is prized over volume and defense is in higher demand than ever. his analysis is therefore misleading let alone lazy.

instead of providing stability the roster has been in constant turmoil, much of it having to do with how difficult carmelo anthony is to play with, let alone build around.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
NardDogNation
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11/25/2013  11:47 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/25/2013  11:51 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
arkrud wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:If Melo were on a championship team, I'd envision him taking very, very few mid range shots. He just doesn't hit a high enough % of them. He'd mostly take 3s and shots near the rim - (both from driving and from posting up). I could see him averaging around 18 PPG on 12 shots a game if he wanted to.

A more capable supporting cast, should help him get better looks and higher percentage shots in the process. That article was right in pointing out how abysmal our roster is at the moment.

He should be supporting cast himself... then he has a chance to get a chip.

That's nonsense. Kevin Durant shot 42% without Russell Westbrook last year. That is a prime example that shows that the team makes the star as much as the star makes the team. Why should we think that Melo can exempt himself from a fact that every star/champion has been beholden to?


Yeah, and he averaged close to a triple double

He averaged 30ppg, 9rpg and 6apg during the playoffs which isn't a farcry from what Melo did. And even without Westbrook, his guys are better than Melo's.

How did he manage to average 6 assists a game when his teammates shot below 40%?

Volume shots.


What does that mean?

OKC gets a lot of shots up because of the pace they play at. Even though they're shooting 40%, there are enough shots made to get a decent number of assists especially if you are the primary ballhandler.
Bonn1997
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11/25/2013  11:51 AM
jrodmc wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
dk7th wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:this piece is incoherent garbage. awful. is he getting paid?!?
Not sure why you would say that. Do you think Melo and the Knicks don't succeed in a three star system where Melo is the number 2 guy? Do you disagree with the point that guys mature and become more of a team player as they get older and understand that they may need to change their game to compliment other stars to win? If so I am going to say that I am leaning towards Doc Rivers opinion based on his knowledge of the game as a player and a coach.

assuming everything you read here is true then the conclusion is that melo is a greedy fool for coming to new york to be numero uno. he is also being intellectually dishonest when he uses empty calorie statistics to support his opinion on the evaluation of players mentioned. melo has value but the price paid in salary and assets was far more than whatever value he brings.


1) One, how do you read this and conclude that Melo a greedy fool for coming to New York? Was Stat a greedy fool for coming to NY and providing 1/2 of a max contract regular season?

2) And exactly what wholesome, nutritous statistics would you provide to offset these:

The Knicks gave up a lot of replaceable role players to acquire Anthony:
• Danilo Gallinari, who has averaged 15.5 points and shot 41.6 percent from the field in 128 games with the Nuggets. He sustained a torn ACL last April.
• Raymond Felton, who is back with the Knicks after disappointing seasons with the Nuggets and Trail Blazers.
• Wilson Chandler, who has averaged 12.3 points in 77 games with Denver.
• Timofey Mozgov, the "deal-breaker," who has been DNP for more than 40 percent of his games as a Nugget, and has averaged 4.7 points in 13 minutes when he has played.
• Eddy Curry, who has played 108 minutes since the trade.
• Anthony Randolph, who has averaged 6.9 points with two teams since the trade.
• Two second-round picks that turned into Quincy Miller and Romero Osby, who between them have played a total of 27 NBA minutes.
• A first-round pick in the 2014 draft, which may turn out to be the most valuable piece surrendered by New York.
Not only did the Knicks receive Anthony, but they also acquired Chauncey Billups, whose contract (via amnesty) enabled them to land Tyson Chandler. So they were able to exchange those role players (whose value had suddenly increased thanks to coach Mike D'Antoni's offensive system) for one of the NBA's most prolific scorers and a championship center.

And don't forget, while you type your response, keep saying "57 regular season wins and never out of the first round".

This list just goes to show that we didn't give up that much to acquire him, definitely much less than we initially thought. We can now say that with hinesight. The most valuable asset will be this year's draft pick. Last year's pick turned into Royce White, and their were very few productive players drafted behind him. In addition, i don't think we would want to have big money tied into Gallo and Chandler right now. Paying them thru 2016 and being tied into the duration of Stoudemire's contract over the last 4 years of it would have been a disaster. The opposing theory that another better deal would have come up instead of Melo is of course possible, but was always wishful thinking, especially given how good the deals for Paul, Dwight, and Harden were. Hell, even Iguodala brought back Bynum, who at the time was the 2nd best center in the league. We would be in a far tougher place than we are right now, still fresh off a 54-win season, thats for sure.


Giving up a lot of valuable small pieces adds up. If you get a quarter of an inch of snow for 72 straight hours, you have a blizzard. And if all you have is a little shovel, you're screwed

Fail, in spades. Actually, it's been going on 4 years, Bonn, not 72 hours. And you've gotten a grand total of a quarter inch of snow right there. And you have a prolific scorer who's also rebounding and on his way to the HOF. And the Tyson shovel has a chip and a DPOY.

Try again.


Yeah, other teams wish they could replicate our success!
jrodmc
Posts: 32927
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 11/24/2004
Member: #805
USA
11/25/2013  11:52 AM
dk7th wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
dk7th wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:this piece is incoherent garbage. awful. is he getting paid?!?
Not sure why you would say that. Do you think Melo and the Knicks don't succeed in a three star system where Melo is the number 2 guy? Do you disagree with the point that guys mature and become more of a team player as they get older and understand that they may need to change their game to compliment other stars to win? If so I am going to say that I am leaning towards Doc Rivers opinion based on his knowledge of the game as a player and a coach.

assuming everything you read here is true then the conclusion is that melo is a greedy fool for coming to new york to be numero uno. he is also being intellectually dishonest when he uses empty calorie statistics to support his opinion on the evaluation of players mentioned. melo has value but the price paid in salary and assets was far more than whatever value he brings.


1) One, how do you read this and conclude that Melo is a greedy fool for coming to New York? Was Stat a greedy fool for coming to NY and providing exactly one 1/2 of a max contract regular season?

2) And exactly what wholesome, nutritous statistics would you provide to offset these:

The Knicks gave up a lot of replaceable role players to acquire Anthony:
• Danilo Gallinari, who has averaged 15.5 points and shot 41.6 percent from the field in 128 games with the Nuggets. He sustained a torn ACL last April.
• Raymond Felton, who is back with the Knicks after disappointing seasons with the Nuggets and Trail Blazers.
• Wilson Chandler, who has averaged 12.3 points in 77 games with Denver.
• Timofey Mozgov, the "deal-breaker," who has been DNP for more than 40 percent of his games as a Nugget, and has averaged 4.7 points in 13 minutes when he has played.
• Eddy Curry, who has played 108 minutes since the trade.
• Anthony Randolph, who has averaged 6.9 points with two teams since the trade.
• Two second-round picks that turned into Quincy Miller and Romero Osby, who between them have played a total of 27 NBA minutes.

A first-round pick in the 2014 draft, which may turn out to be the most valuable piece surrendered by New York.
Not only did the Knicks receive Anthony, but they also acquired Chauncey Billups, whose contract (via amnesty) enabled them to land Tyson Chandler. So they were able to exchange those role players (whose value had suddenly increased thanks to coach Mike D'Antoni's offensive system) for one of the NBA's most prolific scorers and a championship center.

And don't forget, while you type your response, keep saying "57 regular season wins and never out of the first round".

first i don't compare apples to oranges. say what you wish about stoudemire but he came as a free agent and that means it was just dolan's money. moreover, dolan-- beyond the tacit mandate of the league to clean up his and isiah's mess by bringing in walsh-- drives the agenda for this team. a courageous, uncynical owner would have foregone the two-star approach and built patiently until a better situation came along. he had the option to do so but like most of the knick fanbase, he is an impatient dullard that prizes entertainment over winning.

building a winner requires patience and shrewdness. he lacks both but deep pockets keep you in the game. he is like a bad poker player who keeps replenishing his chips even if he is losing because he is willing to pay for being amused even as he is losing.

second, the writer is missing the obvious: the game has passed carmelo anthony by. it's a new era where efficiency is prized over volume and defense is in higher demand than ever. his analysis is therefore misleading let alone lazy.

instead of providing stability the roster has been in constant turmoil, much of it having to do with how difficult carmelo anthony is to play with, let alone build around.

So Stat was a humble, ungreedy soul who just took stupid Dolan's money. And promptly did sheehit for 3.5 out of 4 years. Compared to Melo's apples. Yes, I see your logic there.

Yes, and your incessant whining about efficiency and game passing and owner stupidity has a tremendous amount to do with the value of the pieces of oranges we gave away to get Carmelo, the greedy fool.

Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
11/25/2013  11:52 AM
NardDogNation wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
arkrud wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:If Melo were on a championship team, I'd envision him taking very, very few mid range shots. He just doesn't hit a high enough % of them. He'd mostly take 3s and shots near the rim - (both from driving and from posting up). I could see him averaging around 18 PPG on 12 shots a game if he wanted to.

A more capable supporting cast, should help him get better looks and higher percentage shots in the process. That article was right in pointing out how abysmal our roster is at the moment.

He should be supporting cast himself... then he has a chance to get a chip.

That's nonsense. Kevin Durant shot 42% without Russell Westbrook last year. That is a prime example that shows that the team makes the star as much as the star makes the team. Why should we think that Melo can exempt himself from a fact that every star/champion has been beholden to?


Yeah, and he averaged close to a triple double

He averaged 30ppg, 9rpg and 6apg during the playoffs which isn't a farcry from what Melo did. And even without Westbrook, his guys are better than Melo's.

How did he manage to average 6 assists a game when his teammates shot below 40%?

Volume shots.


What does that mean?

OKC gets a lot of shots up because of the pace they play it. Even though they're shooting 40%, there are enough shots made to get a decent number of assists especially if you are the primary ballhandler.

So that explains a 6 to 1 ratio between Durant's and Melo's assists last post-season? OKC is just taking six times as many shots a game as the Knicks are?!
jrodmc
Posts: 32927
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 11/24/2004
Member: #805
USA
11/25/2013  11:52 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
dk7th wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:this piece is incoherent garbage. awful. is he getting paid?!?
Not sure why you would say that. Do you think Melo and the Knicks don't succeed in a three star system where Melo is the number 2 guy? Do you disagree with the point that guys mature and become more of a team player as they get older and understand that they may need to change their game to compliment other stars to win? If so I am going to say that I am leaning towards Doc Rivers opinion based on his knowledge of the game as a player and a coach.

assuming everything you read here is true then the conclusion is that melo is a greedy fool for coming to new york to be numero uno. he is also being intellectually dishonest when he uses empty calorie statistics to support his opinion on the evaluation of players mentioned. melo has value but the price paid in salary and assets was far more than whatever value he brings.


1) One, how do you read this and conclude that Melo a greedy fool for coming to New York? Was Stat a greedy fool for coming to NY and providing 1/2 of a max contract regular season?

2) And exactly what wholesome, nutritous statistics would you provide to offset these:

The Knicks gave up a lot of replaceable role players to acquire Anthony:
• Danilo Gallinari, who has averaged 15.5 points and shot 41.6 percent from the field in 128 games with the Nuggets. He sustained a torn ACL last April.
• Raymond Felton, who is back with the Knicks after disappointing seasons with the Nuggets and Trail Blazers.
• Wilson Chandler, who has averaged 12.3 points in 77 games with Denver.
• Timofey Mozgov, the "deal-breaker," who has been DNP for more than 40 percent of his games as a Nugget, and has averaged 4.7 points in 13 minutes when he has played.
• Eddy Curry, who has played 108 minutes since the trade.
• Anthony Randolph, who has averaged 6.9 points with two teams since the trade.
• Two second-round picks that turned into Quincy Miller and Romero Osby, who between them have played a total of 27 NBA minutes.
• A first-round pick in the 2014 draft, which may turn out to be the most valuable piece surrendered by New York.
Not only did the Knicks receive Anthony, but they also acquired Chauncey Billups, whose contract (via amnesty) enabled them to land Tyson Chandler. So they were able to exchange those role players (whose value had suddenly increased thanks to coach Mike D'Antoni's offensive system) for one of the NBA's most prolific scorers and a championship center.

And don't forget, while you type your response, keep saying "57 regular season wins and never out of the first round".

This list just goes to show that we didn't give up that much to acquire him, definitely much less than we initially thought. We can now say that with hinesight. The most valuable asset will be this year's draft pick. Last year's pick turned into Royce White, and their were very few productive players drafted behind him. In addition, i don't think we would want to have big money tied into Gallo and Chandler right now. Paying them thru 2016 and being tied into the duration of Stoudemire's contract over the last 4 years of it would have been a disaster. The opposing theory that another better deal would have come up instead of Melo is of course possible, but was always wishful thinking, especially given how good the deals for Paul, Dwight, and Harden were. Hell, even Iguodala brought back Bynum, who at the time was the 2nd best center in the league. We would be in a far tougher place than we are right now, still fresh off a 54-win season, thats for sure.


Giving up a lot of valuable small pieces adds up. If you get a quarter of an inch of snow for 72 straight hours, you have a blizzard. And if all you have is a little shovel, you're screwed

Fail, in spades. Actually, it's been going on 4 years, Bonn, not 72 hours. And you've gotten a grand total of a quarter inch of snow right there. And you have a prolific scorer who's also rebounding and on his way to the HOF. And the Tyson shovel has a chip and a DPOY.

Try again.


Yeah, other teams wish they could replicate our success!

Yeah, see Brooklyn.
This SI article sums up the state of Melo and the Knicks well

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