arkrud wrote:First a foremost organization must have vision and plan and stick to it.
This means that only proven and competent GM and coaching stuff must be employed.
No non-bbal people including owner should be involved in personal decisions.
Owner should set the financial restrictions and that's about it.
After this any avenue must be taken in consideration to better the team and build according to the plan.
Draft, FA, trades are all interdependent and should be in line with coaching decisions and style of teh team.

That's why we see the same teams in the list of great organization, and same teams winning the chip.
Simply because they did a great job in building the winners.
It may not be Dunking, Parker, Ginobly but Spurs will be great regardless with other names we all new.
The luck stays with the people who deserve it, because those who are not, cannot make use of it.

like jeremy lin falling into our laps.

It's all a mute point for the Knicks though until one day Dolan is out of the picture completely

EnySpree wrote:

martin wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Yea we've gone over this a billion times. Every championship included a star who was originally drafted by the team. They then add championship ship caliber free agents around them. It very simple. Knicks will never figure it out though

To get that start we would have to lose magnificently then be lucky to win the lottery. With the Knicks luck we'd get Tyrus thomas or Kwame brown. Our maybe we get Ewing and still never sign anyone to compliment him and still go 15 more years without winning.

It's a Crap shoot. How many teams do the draft and build up and still never win?

I think the Knicks just need to keep this thing going positively. We traded all our picks until 2018. We hope to still be winning at that point. We're going to fight for Kevin Love and whoever else. We have to ride this wave right now. Hopefully we start to hold on to our future picks and if things go south after 2018 we can do the draft thing..... right now we gotta build around Melo. Right now we are currently Fucking that up royally.

Gallo at #6. Weak draft more than anything, right? Wade went #5, Kobe #13, Dirk #9. Lots of luck involved.

Tony Parker went #30 right? It's not an exact thing. Even drafting Shump and Hardaway.... going back to Ariza and Wilson Chandler.... Knicks drafted all these great role players but no star.... say if we never traded for Melo..... the Knicks would have a gimpy Amar'e and rule players. Gallo is hurt, Wilson is just coming back from being chronically injured since he left ny.

Knicks just got to keep moving positively.... but as I said we cant even do that with the struggles were having now

I think you're making the case. Yes, high picks usually higher value, but not always. Sometimes you find tremendous value lower. Either way, super valuable. All of them. The start of greatness is there.

gunsnewing wrote:It quite simple. You luck out and draft one of these guys. They are on rookie deals as they develop. Once they become stars they at track other great players and away you go.

It's all a mute point for the Knicks though until one day Dolan is out of the picture completely

This is true and so damn frustrating. Well said though. +1

martin wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

martin wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Yea we've gone over this a billion times. Every championship included a star who was originally drafted by the team. They then add championship ship caliber free agents around them. It very simple. Knicks will never figure it out though

Did this hold with Chauncy-led Detroit? Or do you consider Prince a star?

Detroit is the exception. Something we've also gone over 1 billion times

Great, then don't say every.

Sorry I was being lazy. I assumed it was common knowledge that Detroit was the exception. 1 team in 25yrs+ I didn't feel it was necessary plus I was posting and driving which I should probably avoid all together

It was a masterful job of coaching by Larry brown and why the Knicks hired him. But in typical knick fashion we had a roster of castoffs and injured players with huge on the verge of retiring for medical reasons

Also guys like brand curry Jamal and Tyson who were all parlayed for picks and players that improved the makeup of the the team

tkf wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Yea we've gone over this a billion times. Every championship included a star who was originally drafted by the team. They then add championship ship caliber free agents around them. It very simple. Knicks will never figure it out though

To get that star draft kid we would have to lose magnificently then be lucky to win the lottery. With the Knicks luck we'd get Tyrus thomas or Kwame brown. Our maybe we get Ewing and still never sign anyone to compliment him and still go 15 more years without winning.

It's a Crap shoot. How many teams do the draft and build up and still never win?

I think the Knicks just need to keep this thing going positively. We traded all our picks until 2018. We hope to still be winning at that point. We're going to fight for Kevin Love and whoever else. We have to ride this wave right now. Hopefully we start to hold on to our future picks and if things go south after 2018 we can do the draft thing..... right now we gotta build around Melo. Right now we are currently Fucking that up royally.

thats like saying how many people wear seat belts and still get injured in accidents... the key is how many are not injured wearing seatbelts as opposed to those who don't.....

If someone is hurt badly in an accident not wearing a seat belt, do you start riding with yours off?

history backs up the point that those who utilize the draft win more so than those who don't.. plain and simple..

tkf, as well as being a prophet, you are the unchallenged king of really bad analogies.

A seat belt....and an NBA draft pick. Think about that for just a bit more than a second.

A seat belt failure would be statistically almost nil.
NBA Draft failures are far more endemic and far more fail than don't.

And it's not like every team doesn't draft. We've had years with three first rounders and still manage to draft ****. the draft failures and busts far outweigh the championship list built upon the Jordans, Duncans, Wades and Kobes of the world.

The point is, the draft doesn't guarantee success. It's a necessary aspect of every NBA team. But until you can explain the Suns, the Grizz, the Raptors, the Hornets, etc etc you haven't proved it's a sufficient aspect of building a championship team. You draft for twenty years and get sheeit. Than you draft one year and get LeQ. Notice we're at the bottom of the list, and so are the Heat and the Bulls.

That's a bit more a crapshoot than putting on a seat belt that's been tested tens of thousands of times by industry and governmental agencies.

Explaining success by showing successful players is like saying you need to pick really good apples off an apple tree.

Draft Success 1990-2002

Rank
Team
Avg. PER
Std. Dev.
1st Round Success
2nd Round 100+

1
Suns
16.1
3.93
80%
38.89%

2
76ers
15.07
3.53
63.64%
35.29%

3
Pacers
13.83
1.19
63.64%
36.36%

4
Cavaliers
14.57
3.31
61.54%
40%

5
Pistons
13.48
4.08
61.54%
44.44%

6
Grizzlies
16.59
2.79
60%
30%

7
Jazz
13.03
4.13
58.33%
45.45%

8
Raptors
14.96
5.26
55.56%
0%

9
SuperSonics
14.53
2.67
54.55%
47.37%

10
Hornets
15.51
4.26
50%
71.43%

11
Timberwolves
15
4.57
50%
35.71%

12
Warriors
14.77
2.96
50%
16.67%

13
Bucks
14.29
4.2
50%
62.50%

14
Spurs
13.99
5.69
50%
41.67%

15
Wizards
13.84
2.66
44.44%
53.33%

16
Celtics
13.13
4.33
42.86%
12.50%

17
Lakers
13.03
3.17
40%
27.27%

18
Nuggets
13.63
3.09
37.50%
35.71%

19
Magic
13.41
5.05
36.84%
57.14%

20
Kings
13.55
2.5
33.33%
44.44%

21
Clippers
13.29
2.4
31.58%
25%

22
Hawks
12.23
2.35
31.25%
25%

23
Trail Blazers
13.12
3.65
30%
20%

24
Mavericks
13.53
2.65
27.27%
57.89%

25
Rockets
12.48
5.15
26.67%
35.29%

26
Nets
13.23
3.45
25%
37.50%

27
Knicks
11.88
1.95
25%
12.50%

28
Bulls
12.6
3.83
20%
36.84%

29
Heat
13.45
1.6
11.11%
35.71%

martin wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

martin wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Yea we've gone over this a billion times. Every championship included a star who was originally drafted by the team. They then add championship ship caliber free agents around them. It very simple. Knicks will never figure it out though

Did this hold with Chauncy-led Detroit? Or do you consider Prince a star?

Detroit is the exception. Something we've also gone over 1 billion times

Great, then don't say every.

Technically, Kobe was drafted by the Hornets.

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

martin wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Yea we've gone over this a billion times. Every championship included a star who was originally drafted by the team. They then add championship ship caliber free agents around them. It very simple. Knicks will never figure it out though

Did this hold with Chauncy-led Detroit? Or do you consider Prince a star?

Detroit is the exception. Something we've also gone over 1 billion times

Great, then don't say every.

Technically, Kobe was drafted by the Hornets.

Come on dude. You know this was a pre-draft send-in by LA. The pick belonged to them. They picked Kobe regardless of what Stern said and the hat on his head.