A player whose biggest strenght is his quickness.

Its not his fundamentals
Not his personality
Not his shooting touch
Not his lockerroom goodness.

Its his athletic prowess and he is DL with ACL.

And fans think this guy can save the season?

Phuching delusional!

Nalod wrote:Wait, Rondo makes us Elite? Dude is DL with ACL and he makes us Elite?

A player whose biggest strenght is his quickness.

Its not his fundamentals
Not his personality
Not his shooting touch
Not his lockerroom goodness.

Its his athletic prowess and he is DL with ACL.

And fans think this guy can save the season?

Phuching delusional!

Like I said, there is a ton of risk with him but is there even a discussion against him being an upgrade?

Yes, the deal is risky but if it wasn't we'd have no real shot at getting him. That ACL injury is cause for concern but other athletes, whose game is predicated on their athleticism, have comeback from it just fine e.g. Derrick Rose, Adrian Peterson, etc. As much as I am still concerned about it, what really worries me is his viability in a different system. There is a very distinct possibility that he pulls a Deron Williams and plays well below the reputation he had established as a Celtic. Even so, he's still an upgrade over Felton. But is it worth the prospect of 2015? Pretty difficult variables to consider.

NardDogNation wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

VCoug wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

VCoug wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Was just wondering given the fact that we suck.

What's the point? Other than Shumpert, we have absolutely nothing that Boston would want.

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6347300

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6347305

If you combine what we get from these trades with Amare's contract and draft picks, I think we'd have a legitimate shot at getting Rajon Rondo, Jeff Green, Gerald Wallace, Courtney Lee and Brandon Bass. Like I said, we'd have to be extremely creative.

Those are interesting though I find it hard to believe Dolan will ever allow Lin in a Knicks uniform again. And a package of Derrick Williams, Faried, and Jordan Hamilton at least gets Boston's attention. The problem is still that Boston is going to want multiple 1st rounders and we can't give them one until 2018.

They already have multiple first round picks from the Nets for 2014, 2016 and 2018. Because of that and the fact that we could take on their bad contracts, I think we might be able to get a deal done by using our 2018 and 2020 picks. I still wonder if the promise of Rajon Rondo past would be worth foregoing our cap flexibility in 2015. Rondo, after all, might never be the same or duplicate the success he had in Boston. Needless to say, it would be a BIG gamble by the Knicks.

We have some young players and the ability to take on the big contracts, so Rondo is a reasonable possibility near the trade deadline. It is a big gamble, but no more of a gamble than hoping we come up with a big free agent in 2015.

Very good point. Maybe I'm a dreamer but I feel more confident about our chances in 2015 than 2010. For one, we'd theoretically have a star under contract that alleviates the risk of carrying the franchise alone. Second, we'll have far more cap space/roster flexibility which will allow us to build an actual team instead of just signing two stars. Third, I think this free agent class will be better than in 2010, save LeBron. Either way, its still a risky proposition, which is why I'd prefer us to start making trades.

dude, if we sign carmelo, extend felton, we won't have a lot of cap space... second, how does having carmelo locked into a ridiculous deal attractive to any Free agent. especially rondo, who has some good young pieces on his team plus a lot of draft picks? I don't get you guys thinking..

tkf wrote:

Nalod wrote:Wait, Rondo makes us Elite? Dude is DL with ACL and he makes us Elite?

A player whose biggest strenght is his quickness.

Its not his fundamentals
Not his personality
Not his shooting touch
Not his lockerroom goodness.

Its his athletic prowess and he is DL with ACL.

And fans think this guy can save the season?

Phuching delusional!

well rondo is a unique player, he has big hands, long arms, good IQ, so it is not just athleticism.. but lets say he does recover all of that.. how do knick fans suggest we get him? with what we have!

Look at my proposal.

Nalod wrote:

tkf wrote:

Nalod wrote:Wait, Rondo makes us Elite? Dude is DL with ACL and he makes us Elite?

A player whose biggest strenght is his quickness.

Its not his fundamentals
Not his personality
Not his shooting touch
Not his lockerroom goodness.

Its his athletic prowess and he is DL with ACL.

And fans think this guy can save the season?

Phuching delusional!

well rondo is a unique player, he has big hands, long arms, good IQ, so it is not just athleticism.. but lets say he does recover all of that.. how do knick fans suggest we get him? with what we have!

Don't confuse his speed with IQ. Big hands and long arms are part of his athleticism. Aren't they? Iverson don't get that shot off witout this long arms. When he lost his speed those arms just did not have the reach. Even if Rondo had the IQ, what can you do with it if the speed is not there? We not talking abut a Steve Nash who lost a step 4 years ago but still had the IQ and SHOT which was fundamentally should.

I didn't confuse it, part of his success is that he is crafty, very crafty, high IQ, and if long arms and big hands are part of his Athleticism, then what is all the worry about his ACL? it is not affecting his arms and hands?

Even if Rondo had the IQ, what can you do with it if the speed is not there?

won't affect his passing, or playmaking abilities.. and again, we are assuming he lost everything... I doubt that is the case, if he lost a little bit of speed he still is faster than most guards in the league..

tkf wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

VCoug wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

VCoug wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Was just wondering given the fact that we suck.

What's the point? Other than Shumpert, we have absolutely nothing that Boston would want.

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6347300

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6347305

If you combine what we get from these trades with Amare's contract and draft picks, I think we'd have a legitimate shot at getting Rajon Rondo, Jeff Green, Gerald Wallace, Courtney Lee and Brandon Bass. Like I said, we'd have to be extremely creative.

Those are interesting though I find it hard to believe Dolan will ever allow Lin in a Knicks uniform again. And a package of Derrick Williams, Faried, and Jordan Hamilton at least gets Boston's attention. The problem is still that Boston is going to want multiple 1st rounders and we can't give them one until 2018.

They already have multiple first round picks from the Nets for 2014, 2016 and 2018. Because of that and the fact that we could take on their bad contracts, I think we might be able to get a deal done by using our 2018 and 2020 picks. I still wonder if the promise of Rajon Rondo past would be worth foregoing our cap flexibility in 2015. Rondo, after all, might never be the same or duplicate the success he had in Boston. Needless to say, it would be a BIG gamble by the Knicks.

We have some young players and the ability to take on the big contracts, so Rondo is a reasonable possibility near the trade deadline. It is a big gamble, but no more of a gamble than hoping we come up with a big free agent in 2015.

Very good point. Maybe I'm a dreamer but I feel more confident about our chances in 2015 than 2010. For one, we'd theoretically have a star under contract that alleviates the risk of carrying the franchise alone. Second, we'll have far more cap space/roster flexibility which will allow us to build an actual team instead of just signing two stars. Third, I think this free agent class will be better than in 2010, save LeBron. Either way, its still a risky proposition, which is why I'd prefer us to start making trades.

dude, if we sign carmelo, extend felton, we won't have a lot of cap space... second, how does having carmelo locked into a ridiculous deal attractive to any Free agent. especially rondo, who has some good young pieces on his team plus a lot of draft picks? I don't get you guys thinking..

If we sign Carmelo to an extension, his contract will be approximately $20 million. Assuming the cap is $60 million and we'd have a cap hold of $7 million for each vacant roster spot, that would leave approximately $53 million to play with, not to mention the fact we'd have a $3million exception to play with after we hit the cap. In what fantasy world do you live in that that isn't a boatload of cap space? Felton, if he gets extended, won't be making more than the minimum so a hypothetical extension for him is irrelevant.

And for all the "good young pieces" the Celtics have, it seems odd that they haven't won any games yet or gotten very much time (probably because they don't exist). The Celtics' rotation has centered itself around vets like Jeff Green, Brandon Bass, Courtney Lee, Gerald Wallace and Kris Humphries who aren't that good and around young players like Avery Bradley, Marshon Brooks and Jared Sullinger that won't be anything more than average role players in the mold of the vets I mentioned earlier. Kelly Olynk has showed promise but is far from star material, so I don't know what you are talking about.

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

VCoug wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

VCoug wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Was just wondering given the fact that we suck.

What's the point? Other than Shumpert, we have absolutely nothing that Boston would want.

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6347300

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6347305

If you combine what we get from these trades with Amare's contract and draft picks, I think we'd have a legitimate shot at getting Rajon Rondo, Jeff Green, Gerald Wallace, Courtney Lee and Brandon Bass. Like I said, we'd have to be extremely creative.

Those are interesting though I find it hard to believe Dolan will ever allow Lin in a Knicks uniform again. And a package of Derrick Williams, Faried, and Jordan Hamilton at least gets Boston's attention. The problem is still that Boston is going to want multiple 1st rounders and we can't give them one until 2018.

They already have multiple first round picks from the Nets for 2014, 2016 and 2018. Because of that and the fact that we could take on their bad contracts, I think we might be able to get a deal done by using our 2018 and 2020 picks. I still wonder if the promise of Rajon Rondo past would be worth foregoing our cap flexibility in 2015. Rondo, after all, might never be the same or duplicate the success he had in Boston. Needless to say, it would be a BIG gamble by the Knicks.

We have some young players and the ability to take on the big contracts, so Rondo is a reasonable possibility near the trade deadline. It is a big gamble, but no more of a gamble than hoping we come up with a big free agent in 2015.

Let me ask this.. how do you view Rondo? pretty much as close to a star player.. right?

How do you view carmelo? well I know the answer to that, so erase that question..

Ok... So you said we have young players and ability to take on large contracts.. ok..

so lets say boston came to the knicks and said they want carmelo.. assuming they had our roster... what players would you accept to give them carmelo?

I view Melo and Rondo similar, star players who's flaws keep them below the top guys. I think together they could do some damage. In regards to your last question, not exactly sure where you are going with it. New York and Boston are in different stages. But with Boston desperate to deal their dead-weight contracts, we are one of the few teams that can offer some assets plus the ability to take on those contracts. I'm not saying it is the best move to make, but i believe in building with the foundation you have rather than blowing it up and hoping something good happens. Few teams can pull it off, and the ones that do have much better luck than this franchise. It takes more luck than anything.

NardDogNation wrote:

tkf wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

VCoug wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

VCoug wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Was just wondering given the fact that we suck.

What's the point? Other than Shumpert, we have absolutely nothing that Boston would want.

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6347300

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6347305

If you combine what we get from these trades with Amare's contract and draft picks, I think we'd have a legitimate shot at getting Rajon Rondo, Jeff Green, Gerald Wallace, Courtney Lee and Brandon Bass. Like I said, we'd have to be extremely creative.

Those are interesting though I find it hard to believe Dolan will ever allow Lin in a Knicks uniform again. And a package of Derrick Williams, Faried, and Jordan Hamilton at least gets Boston's attention. The problem is still that Boston is going to want multiple 1st rounders and we can't give them one until 2018.

They already have multiple first round picks from the Nets for 2014, 2016 and 2018. Because of that and the fact that we could take on their bad contracts, I think we might be able to get a deal done by using our 2018 and 2020 picks. I still wonder if the promise of Rajon Rondo past would be worth foregoing our cap flexibility in 2015. Rondo, after all, might never be the same or duplicate the success he had in Boston. Needless to say, it would be a BIG gamble by the Knicks.

We have some young players and the ability to take on the big contracts, so Rondo is a reasonable possibility near the trade deadline. It is a big gamble, but no more of a gamble than hoping we come up with a big free agent in 2015.

Very good point. Maybe I'm a dreamer but I feel more confident about our chances in 2015 than 2010. For one, we'd theoretically have a star under contract that alleviates the risk of carrying the franchise alone. Second, we'll have far more cap space/roster flexibility which will allow us to build an actual team instead of just signing two stars. Third, I think this free agent class will be better than in 2010, save LeBron. Either way, its still a risky proposition, which is why I'd prefer us to start making trades.

dude, if we sign carmelo, extend felton, we won't have a lot of cap space... second, how does having carmelo locked into a ridiculous deal attractive to any Free agent. especially rondo, who has some good young pieces on his team plus a lot of draft picks? I don't get you guys thinking..

If we sign Carmelo to an extension, his contract will be approximately $20 million. Assuming the cap is $60 million and we'd have a cap hold of $7 million for each vacant roster spot, that would leave approximately $53 million to play with, not to mention the fact we'd have a $3million exception to play with after we hit the cap. In what fantasy world do you live in that that isn't a boatload of cap space? Felton, if he gets extended, won't be making more than the minimum so a hypothetical extension for him is irrelevant.

And for all the "good young pieces" the Celtics have, it seems odd that they haven't won any games yet or gotten very much time (probably because they don't exist). The Celtics' rotation has centered itself around vets like Jeff Green, Brandon Bass, Courtney Lee, Gerald Wallace and Kris Humphries who aren't that good and around young players like Avery Bradley, Marshon Brooks and Jared Sullinger that won't be anything more than average role players in the mold of the vets I mentioned earlier. Kelly Olynk has showed promise but is far from star material, so I don't know what you are talking about.

ayer 2013/14 2014/15 2015/16 2016/17 2017/18
Amare Stoudemire $21,679,893 $23,410,988 $0 $0 $0
Carmelo Anthony $21,490,000 $23,530,000 $0 $0 $0
Tyson Chandler $14,100,538 $14,596,888 $0 $0 $0
Andrea Bargnani $11,000,000 $12,000,000 $0 $0 $0
JR Smith $5,565,000 $5,982,375 $6,399,750 $0 $0
Raymond Felton $4,180,000 $4,360,000 $4,540,000 $0 $0
Iman Shumpert $1,797,600 $2,761,113 $3,898,691 $0 $0
Pablo Prigioni $1,591,350 $1,662,961 $1,734,572 $0 $0
Metta World Peace $1,590,000 $1,661,550 $0 $0 $0
Kenyon Martin $1,399,507 $0 $0 $0 $0
Beno Udrih $1,272,279 $0 $0 $0 $0
Tim Hardaway Jr $1,196,760 $1,250,640 $1,304,520 $2,281,605 $3,335,707
Cole Aldrich $884,293 $0 $0 $0 $0
Toure Murry $490,180 $0 $0 $0 $0
Chris Smith $490,180 $0 $0 $0 $0
TOTALS: $86,862,927 $91,216,515 $12,674,322 $0 $

ok, the margins are off, but if you look in year 2015, the salary on hand is 12.6 mil

That does not include the QO to shumpert at almost 4 mil, or the team option on THJ? do you plan on having those guys? if so then the salaries that year are now at 18 mil, and that is if we don't give shump a new deal...

Ok so now you take that 18 and add in carmelo's deal, which will start at 22.4 mil.

In that scenario, Anthony could re-sign with the Knicks (assuming, of course, that he’s not traded during the season) for up to five years with 7.5% raises, or with another team for up to four years with 4.5% raises. His maximum starting salary would be worth 105% of the $21,388,954 he’s earning this season. Here are the two max contract scenarios for Carmelo:

so now you take 22.4+18mil that is already 40 mil.. add in the cap holds, other roster spots, and you don't have a ton left.. and believe me, guys are not taking discounts to come to NY..

I am sorry, but you are wrong with your scenario..

tkf wrote:I did.. will never happen.. who is going to touch Bargs? and why would the rockets want felton over lin?

Because Felton makes a substantial amount less than Jeremy Lin, while offering similar production. The Rockets are committed to 3 large contracts (Dwight Howard, James Harden and Omer Asik) and still have a 4th player (Chandler Parsons) due for a large payday. Given the Leslie Alexander's reluctance to pay the luxury tax, a move like this becomes a viable option. More importantly, Felton has a more proven track record of being able to stretch the defense which better compliments the Rockets two most important players, Dwight Howard and James Harden. This is a no-brainer type of move.

tkf wrote:the pelicans and Bargs? LOL. basically that trade is E gordon for kevin martin.. pelicans are a young team, they don't want to get older.. and I love K-mart

Dell Demps, the Pelicans GM, traded CP3 for Kevin Martin, Luis Scola and Lamar Odom. When Stern nixed the deal, Demps pleaded with him to resuscitate it as is. That ensuing season, Kevin Martin became a 6th man on a team whose average age was 25 years old; Lamar Odom became a D-League caliber talent; and Luis Scola was amnestied by a team in need of a PF. Needless to say, Demps would have interest in Bargnani, lol.

The Pelicans are very much in "win now" mode having traded away two lottery picks, and added two quasi-max contracts to their payroll. The roster they are building is heavily centered around guard play, which requires the kind of floor spacing that Bargnani provides well enough as a big.

As for Kevin Martin, he adds to that guard culture and offers steady veteran play. If Demps liked him enough to be the centerpiece of a CP3 trade, I think he'd definitely be interested in him in exchange for a injury-prone malcontent like Eric Gordon. After all, Gordon has been on the block since last season, so I definitely think a deal like this has legs.

tkf wrote:second trade is just not going to happen.. you won't get faried for shumpert alone, forget talking about them throwing in another player...

Jordan Hamilton is dead weight on that roster because of the roster's relative depth at the 3 spot and Fournier's steadier play at the 2 spot. Ultimately, he is irrelevant in such a trade.

I know you have a hard on for anything Nuggets but the fact of the matter is that the franchise is not nearly as enarmored with Faried as you are. I think that much was evidenced by the fact that they signed JJ Hickson and traded for Darrell Arthur this offseason. The Nuggets do have a pressing need at the 2 guard spot and I can easily see them being interested in Shumpert's services given his youth and play.

tkf wrote:These trades are lopsided, with the knicks giving up marginal to garbage players and getting back good young ones..

just listen to this.. we give up felton and Bargnani, and get back , Lin, Derrick williams( high lotto pick recently) greg smith, Jordan Hamilton and Faried?

LOL.. are you kidding me bro?

If these players were such "good young players", why are they not more central to their team's play? The Hornets had so much confidence in Eric Gordon that they drafted Austin Rivers and signed Tyreke Evans to a quasi-max contract. The Wolves think so much of Derrick Williams that they signed Corey Brewer (who they start) and re-signed Chase Budinger so that they could bring him off the bench. Meanwhile for the Nuggets, Jordan Hamilton doesn't play (aside from one game this season) and Faried's role is being deemphasized through the additions of JJ Hickson and Darrell Arthur. Because of this, I don't think that their market value is better than what I am suggesting.