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What we learned from game two
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MSG3
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11/1/2013  10:37 AM
arkrud wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:With Bargs on the court this season the Knicks are -20 in 42 minutes.

Yeah, and we won by 7 and lost by one. Made some nice passes to the wings.

Lighten up, he hit 4 in a row last night. Give the boy some time before battering him with stats.

Bargs is a huge liability and weak point of this team.
No wonger Grun was fired. This trade was the worst thing after Eddy Curry/Jerome James and I think both this guys were more usefull than Bargs is.
What a waste of space and time.

This is a pretty strange opinion that many people have. What you lose in the trade is spacing that Novak provided when he was actually shooting well. The Knicks lost nothing else (besides late picks, and I respect peoples opinion on the value, i just disagree). I'm not going to call this a failure after 2 games. Let's not forget Bargnani hit some huge shots in the 3rd to keep us in it.

AUTOADVERT
helloharv
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11/1/2013  10:53 AM
arkrud wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:With Bargs on the court this season the Knicks are -20 in 42 minutes.

Yeah, and we won by 7 and lost by one. Made some nice passes to the wings.

Lighten up, he hit 4 in a row last night. Give the boy some time before battering him with stats.

Bargs is a huge liability and weak point of this team.
No wonger Grun was fired. This trade was the worst thing after Eddy Curry/Jerome James and I think both this guys were more usefull than Bargs is.
What a waste of space and time.

Disagree 100% --- Did you watch the entire game? We saw how good he can be when he knocked down 4 straight shots including a three pointer.

He would have spaced the floor the last 2 minutes when we were running NOTHING

Moonangie
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11/1/2013  10:53 AM
MSG3 wrote:
arkrud wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:With Bargs on the court this season the Knicks are -20 in 42 minutes.

Yeah, and we won by 7 and lost by one. Made some nice passes to the wings.

Lighten up, he hit 4 in a row last night. Give the boy some time before battering him with stats.

Bargs is a huge liability and weak point of this team.
No wonger Grun was fired. This trade was the worst thing after Eddy Curry/Jerome James and I think both this guys were more usefull than Bargs is.
What a waste of space and time.

This is a pretty strange opinion that many people have. What you lose in the trade is spacing that Novak provided when he was actually shooting well. The Knicks lost nothing else (besides late picks, and I respect peoples opinion on the value, i just disagree). I'm not going to call this a failure after 2 games. Let's not forget Bargnani hit some huge shots in the 3rd to keep us in it.

+1. It's a bit premature to decide Bargs is a bust. His shooting stroke looked sweet last night in the second half. If he can go 15/6 every night, he's well worth the minimal assets his trade cost.

Dude looks like he has serious potential on offense, and we just gotta hope he does more than Stat on defense (which ain't saying much at all).

Overlord
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11/1/2013  10:54 AM
franco12 wrote:you don't win games shooting 36% from the field.

This team is a jump shooting team, and I don't see that changing or getting us far this year- prepare for 40-45 wins at best. Dolan will be disappointed and Woodson will likely be fired in the off season. Carmelo will opt out and get a max extension and mediocrity will reign at the garden for the next 3 seasons if we're lucky.

Jesus CHRIST

JesseDark
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11/1/2013  11:01 AM
LOL at this one. I thought Herich picked up a few moves by being taken by DROSE in practice.

Swishfm3 wrote:Pablo had his lunch taken by Kirk...If Felton goes down, we may have a problem

2 games and, I believe, Melo has clocked in 38 and 42 min

Bring back dee-fense
GustavBahler
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11/1/2013  11:05 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/1/2013  11:06 AM
Sangfroid wrote:Ike Diogu would be a good pick up right now. Very few points scored down low, or with tough put backs. This is really a jump shooting team, with limited rebounding. Hopefully, JR comes back with a hunger.

I agree. In last year's playoffs the Celts used our lack of scoring inside against us and jammed up our 3pt shooters. We had no answer for the most part, with the exception of Felton getting to the rim. Pacers followed the same script with more success.

Stat gave us some nice scoring in the paint last night but he can't battle under the boards like Diogu. We do get JR back and his ability to get to the rim but that's not enough. We need another big man who can score in the paint.

I see bargs improving from game to game. His shot is starting to fall, its coming out of his hands quickly, less shots looking forced.
He's not just waiting for his offense to come around and trying to help in other ways which is what I want to see from any player who is struggling. Its the second game of the season and he looks like he's getting his stroke back. I don't see why some posters are in a panic.

I hope Chandler uses that jumper of his more often, I'm impressed with how good it looks. He's playing like he did his DPOY year which is what many of us hoped we'd see from him again. I hope he can stay healthy and engaged.

I agree about Woodson and his late game play calling but its over the top to say that he had nothing to do with his regular season record as a coach. In Atlanta his team got better in the regular season every year he was there. Here too.

Its one thing to call Woodson unimaginative on offense, its another to say he gets no credit all all for all the games he has won as coach, that's just silly. At some point he might get the call for an offensive coordinator, so to speak. I'm sure Woodson remembers how he got his job in NY, so I hope for his sake he gets more creative in late game situations. He drew up a good play to get Felton open out of a time out and cut the lead, so its not like he doesn't know how.

I hope Murry starts getting some burn.

Clean
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11/1/2013  11:15 AM
What I learned from this game is our coach has no control over the team. After we tied the game up we no longer ran plays. This has been a problem ever since Woody has been the coach. We stop doing what got us to the good place we are. it was a tale of 2 different teams. Team play got us to the tie and ISO Melo lost us the game. Don't get me wrong I am not blaming melo for ISO melo, he can't help himself. our coach should have the balls to call plays and make sure the team runs them. spending 18 seconds to try and force the ball to melo in the post is not winning basketball.

Another thing I learned from both games is that Bargs is the X-Factor with this team. If he can hit half of his open shots we are elite. If not we are average to crappy. Once he hit a few shots last night the Bulls lead instantly went from 10 to 4. For some context on my feeling about Bargs is I hated and liked the trade. I felt we gave up too much to get him. However, he has the potential to take us over the top. I just don't want to rely on him too much. 3 picks for a player the Gm said they would Amnesty if they could not trade him by the deadline is just way too much. Getting the better player in the trade does not always = a win. If you get the better player but paid 3 times the value to get him I consider that a lose unless he gets you to the Finals.

Tim in our only good 3 point shooter.
Tyson is back in 1st year on the Knicks mode.
We are no longer the same team that did not commit turnovers.
We still have no one that can drive to the hoop with any consistency(We miss this trait from Lin).

tkf
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11/1/2013  12:11 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
playa2 wrote:Woodson is still learning who to play during different swings in a game.

Iman Shumpert should have guarded Rose on the last play of the game along with Tourre Murray in for defensive purposes.

Melo should have been a decoy by driving and dishing to a wide open wing player.

I don't like the coaches philosophy, I still think he's holding this team back that's why he hasn't been offered an extension yet.

Shump was guarding rose but got picked by Boozer. Felton actually deserves major credit for his hustle. He was actually guarding Deng, who threw the ball into Butler, but saw Rose running free and hustle over to contest. I like Murry but I don't trust him.

GLAD someone noticed that... both felton and chandler challenged hard.. rose made a shot 99% of the guys in the league could not make... it was really good defense..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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11/1/2013  12:15 PM
franco12 wrote:you don't win games shooting 36% from the field.

This team is a jump shooting team, and I don't see that changing or getting us far this year- prepare for 40-45 wins at best. Dolan will be disappointed and Woodson will likely be fired in the off season. Carmelo will opt out and get a max extension and mediocrity will reign at the garden for the next 3 seasons if we're lucky.

true, which is why I don't want to extend carmelo. I know I am a debbie downer a lot of times, but I try to look at this realistically. Knicks have a few good pieces to work with. Chandler, felton, shumpert and THJ are the only guys I would keep... then I would be looking to add that two way player to play with this unit and he has to defend or be a monster rebounder... This unit can defend, and will play hard.. I think THJ has the chance to be a heck of a three point shooter in this league... I would like an upgrade at PG moving felton to backup and getting an upgrade at SF, meaning a two way stud....

but I do see what you are saying and that is my biggest fear..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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11/1/2013  12:23 PM
Clean wrote:What I learned from this game is our coach has no control over the team. After we tied the game up we no longer ran plays. This has been a problem ever since Woody has been the coach. We stop doing what got us to the good place we are. it was a tale of 2 different teams. Team play got us to the tie and ISO Melo lost us the game. Don't get me wrong I am not blaming melo for ISO melo, he can't help himself. our coach should have the balls to call plays and make sure the team runs them. spending 18 seconds to try and force the ball to melo in the post is not winning basketball.

Another thing I learned from both games is that Bargs is the X-Factor with this team. If he can hit half of his open shots we are elite. If not we are average to crappy. Once he hit a few shots last night the Bulls lead instantly went from 10 to 4. For some context on my feeling about Bargs is I hated and liked the trade. I felt we gave up too much to get him. However, he has the potential to take us over the top. I just don't want to rely on him too much. 3 picks for a player the Gm said they would Amnesty if they could not trade him by the deadline is just way too much. Getting the better player in the trade does not always = a win. If you get the better player but paid 3 times the value to get him I consider that a lose unless he gets you to the Finals.

Tim in our only good 3 point shooter.
Tyson is back in 1st year on the Knicks mode.
We are no longer the same team that did not commit turnovers.
We still have no one that can drive to the hoop with any consistency(We miss this trait from Lin).

Dantono did that. and when you do that you will get a disgruntled melo and then fired... woody trying to keep his job.. call all the plays you want, but when carmelo grabs the ball from inbounds and walks it up the court waving guys out of the way, what do you do if you are woody? knowing what you have to deal with.... I think it is a problem tho... good luck sovling it..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
smackeddog
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11/1/2013  3:14 PM
We look like we could have done with another month of preseason. But I was expecting a slow start. We've looked great at times and awful at others, but i see a lot of potential. Just have to wait for us to put it all together!
Finestrg
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11/1/2013  3:38 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/1/2013  3:42 PM
Looking for the poster who criticized Steve Kerr -- don't think I have the right thread. Just watched part of the replay of last night's game on NBA-TV -- I gotta say, Kerr does a nice job as an analyst. Made 2 astute observations that I both agree with:

(1) that playing Amar'e a couple of mins. here and there, playing him every few days or every other game, etc. just won't do. I agree with that. He looks healthy to me. We did what we had to do -- we gave him plenty of time to rest during the off-season (no work with Olajuwon), plenty of time in the pre-season (he barely played) and I know he is recovering from a small knee procedure BUT STILL -- he looks good to me physically. He looks quick & active, albeit a little rusty, but ready to compete to me. He's gotta quickly become more of a priority in their plans. If he's ready to go, don't treat him like an afterthought...I think you play the man semi-normal to normal minutes sooner than later. If he breaks down, he breaks down -- then you deal with it -- but enough with the walking on eggshells with him. We need some interior scoring in the worst way. Either we begin to re-establish Amar'e as a major part of this team or we cut a guy like Aldrich and import a cost-effective big man that can supply a little scoring on the interior. Either or... The worst thing to do here is to do NOTHING.. The 2nd worst thing to do is to baby Amar'e...STAT looks like he's healthy enough to help us and to be playing more mins...WE NEED WHAT HE BRINGS TO THE TABLE!!!

(2) Kerr also said that the ISO ball with Melo's gotta go and that we need to move the ball more in the end for better shots, no matter who takes the shot...Make the Bulls play defense... That's obvious and something most of us agree with....Although most of those shots down the stretch, including the last one, were decent looks and shots Melo's capable of knocking down, I agree that we need to run more normal sets to see if we can come up with better, easier shots..

Speaking to whoever criticized Kerr -- what exactly is your problem with him? I think he offers up good perspective..

JesseDark
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11/1/2013  6:18 PM
Sangfroid wrote:Ike Diogu would be a good pick up right now. Very few points scored down low, or with tough put backs. This is really a jump shooting team, with limited rebounding. Hopefully, JR comes back with a hunger.

I agree. We went to the free throw line only 14 times last nigjt
That is a sympton of not enough attacking of the rim.

Bring back dee-fense
Swishfm3
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11/1/2013  6:39 PM
tkf wrote:
Clean wrote:What I learned from this game is our coach has no control over the team. After we tied the game up we no longer ran plays. This has been a problem ever since Woody has been the coach. We stop doing what got us to the good place we are. it was a tale of 2 different teams. Team play got us to the tie and ISO Melo lost us the game. Don't get me wrong I am not blaming melo for ISO melo, he can't help himself. our coach should have the balls to call plays and make sure the team runs them. spending 18 seconds to try and force the ball to melo in the post is not winning basketball.

Another thing I learned from both games is that Bargs is the X-Factor with this team. If he can hit half of his open shots we are elite. If not we are average to crappy. Once he hit a few shots last night the Bulls lead instantly went from 10 to 4. For some context on my feeling about Bargs is I hated and liked the trade. I felt we gave up too much to get him. However, he has the potential to take us over the top. I just don't want to rely on him too much. 3 picks for a player the Gm said they would Amnesty if they could not trade him by the deadline is just way too much. Getting the better player in the trade does not always = a win. If you get the better player but paid 3 times the value to get him I consider that a lose unless he gets you to the Finals.

Tim in our only good 3 point shooter.
Tyson is back in 1st year on the Knicks mode.
We are no longer the same team that did not commit turnovers.
We still have no one that can drive to the hoop with any consistency(We miss this trait from Lin).

Dantono did that. and when you do that you will get a disgruntled melo and then fired… woody trying to keep his job.. call all the plays you want, but when carmelo grabs the ball from inbounds and walks it up the court waving guys out of the way, what do you do if you are woody? knowing what you have to deal with.... I think it is a problem tho... good luck sovling it..

c'mon man..there is absolutely NO PROOF OF THIS! As a matter of fact, under MDA, Melo was given the green light to take the inbound pass and bring down the court!!

nixluva
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11/1/2013  7:17 PM
I'm worried that this much talent may be too much for Woodson to handle. Some coaches are fine with options but Woodson has been proven to not like options which is where the whole ISO Joe and now ISO Melo/JR thing comes from. He simply has to make better use of all the talent on this roster. Granted it's early and he still has time to get a better handle on his roster, but i'm just concerned by what I see so far. I was talking with my sons about how so much of the offense is devoid of recognizable plays. Guys are just out there winging it. Look at the precision of a Spurs and compare that to the Knicks offense and it's a joke. Closing games with almost nothing but ISO plays is a bad sign. Hopefully he can put it all together cuz this year he can't be given an excuse that he doesn't have the talent.

What I do like is that Woody seems to be getting a good effort on D from his guys and Tyson is all over the place defensively. We need to keep this up and if they do this team is gonna win a ton of games this year even with the offense being simplistic and sloppy.

Jmpasq
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11/1/2013  8:24 PM
I'm worried because you cant have the main minute receiver at PF play 25 minutes and get 1 rebound. This only bothers me?
Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
Bonn1997
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11/2/2013  2:55 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/2/2013  2:56 AM
Swishfm3 wrote:
tkf wrote:
Clean wrote:What I learned from this game is our coach has no control over the team. After we tied the game up we no longer ran plays. This has been a problem ever since Woody has been the coach. We stop doing what got us to the good place we are. it was a tale of 2 different teams. Team play got us to the tie and ISO Melo lost us the game. Don't get me wrong I am not blaming melo for ISO melo, he can't help himself. our coach should have the balls to call plays and make sure the team runs them. spending 18 seconds to try and force the ball to melo in the post is not winning basketball.

Another thing I learned from both games is that Bargs is the X-Factor with this team. If he can hit half of his open shots we are elite. If not we are average to crappy. Once he hit a few shots last night the Bulls lead instantly went from 10 to 4. For some context on my feeling about Bargs is I hated and liked the trade. I felt we gave up too much to get him. However, he has the potential to take us over the top. I just don't want to rely on him too much. 3 picks for a player the Gm said they would Amnesty if they could not trade him by the deadline is just way too much. Getting the better player in the trade does not always = a win. If you get the better player but paid 3 times the value to get him I consider that a lose unless he gets you to the Finals.

Tim in our only good 3 point shooter.
Tyson is back in 1st year on the Knicks mode.
We are no longer the same team that did not commit turnovers.
We still have no one that can drive to the hoop with any consistency(We miss this trait from Lin).

Dantono did that. and when you do that you will get a disgruntled melo and then fired… woody trying to keep his job.. call all the plays you want, but when carmelo grabs the ball from inbounds and walks it up the court waving guys out of the way, what do you do if you are woody? knowing what you have to deal with.... I think it is a problem tho... good luck sovling it..

c'mon man..there is absolutely NO PROOF OF THIS! As a matter of fact, under MDA, Melo was given the green light to take the inbound pass and bring down the court!!

He tried to get Melo to be more of a well-rounded playmaker rather than an ISO chucker. MDA had the right idea but he obviously got a disgruntled Melo like TKF said.

earthmansurfer
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11/2/2013  8:05 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/2/2013  8:06 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/49470/did-melo-make-the-right-call

On Thursday, Anthony opted to take a pull-up jumper from 26 feet out and two seconds to play. Anthony got the ball with a little over four seconds to play, so he had time to make a move off the dribble.

But he opted for a long jumper that didn't go down. Afterward, Anthony told reporters in Chicago that he got the shot that he wanted. He also said Loul Deng had defended his 1-2 dribble pull-up move well.

Again, whether or not you think Anthony took the best shot is open to interpretation. Also, if Rose doesn't hit a well-contested baseline runner with five seconds to play, we're having a totally different conversation today.

But there's something troubling for the Knicks today than what happened on the last possession. And it's this: their offense seemed to get bogged down with isolation sets in the final possessions of the game.

After putting the Knicks up, 78-76, with a turnaround jumper from 12 feet, Anthony missed his final five shots. New York missed its last seven overall.

Only one of Anthony's final five attempts were within 15 feet from the basket, and that was a 14-foot missed jumper with 1:43 to play. This isn't all on Anthony, of course. You have to credit Chicago's defense.

I have the same questions.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
jrodmc
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11/5/2013  9:31 AM
MSG3 wrote:
arkrud wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:With Bargs on the court this season the Knicks are -20 in 42 minutes.

Yeah, and we won by 7 and lost by one. Made some nice passes to the wings.

Lighten up, he hit 4 in a row last night. Give the boy some time before battering him with stats.

Bargs is a huge liability and weak point of this team.
No wonger Grun was fired. This trade was the worst thing after Eddy Curry/Jerome James and I think both this guys were more usefull than Bargs is.
What a waste of space and time.

This is a pretty strange opinion that many people have. What you lose in the trade is spacing that Novak provided when he was actually shooting well. The Knicks lost nothing else (besides late picks, and I respect peoples opinion on the value, i just disagree). I'm not going to call this a failure after 2 games. Let's not forget Bargnani hit some huge shots in the 3rd to keep us in it.

Actually comparing someone who plays in real Knick games to Eddy Curry is just stupid.

What we learned from game two

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