holfresh wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

holfresh wrote:Where were u last two Aprils when Melo won NBA player of the month..When he closed out game after game ??..Just started watching today??

Yea. Just started watching literally tonight. What a dumb ignorant ****ing comment. Stupid comments like that is why I rarely post here anymore. instead of discussion, you get insulted. It was SO much better back in the day.

Either way, the last two Aprils when he was player of the month....How did he do in May? Better yet, how about June? Oh, he wasn't playing in June? My bad.

Let's get serious here. Carmelo is one of the transcendent offensive players of his time. I actually mean that. At least during his time in Denver. In NY he has turned into a NON-presence in the post, a 6-8, 250 pound jump shooter. When was the last time we saw one of those strong spinning drives to the basket he was famous for in Denver?

Being a closer and being a high volume scorer are two totally different things. Kobe=closer. Jordan=closer. Wade=closer. Durant=closer. Joe Johnson=scorer. Dominique Wilkins=scorer. Mitch Richmond=scorer. Vince Carter=scorer. Carmelo Anthony=scorer.

Wade is not a closer, neither is Bron for that matter...As per a discussion, let's have it...How do you ignore what occurred the last two Aprils where he made big basket after big baskets to get us to the playoffs??.. You bring up his production in June when he has faced the best teams in the league, alone...He was stopped by Kobe and Shaq, Tim Duncan, Manu and Tony Parker...LeBron James, Wade and Bosh...Pierce, KG, Rondo, and Ray Allen...The only instance he had legit help he got to the WCF...I mean, let's be fair, are u really going to hold not getting by these teams as his short coming??..Last May he went strong to the hole many a games...Hibbert was doing the body block and he didn't get the call, what can I say...This is the second game of the season, October still..Why isn't he getting it done 100% of the times..Are we really serious here???

Actually, he was much more of a killer in Denver. I don't dispute that. I really liked him there but his game was different. He was a freakin' bull. Karl had him on the blocks and Anthony went outside when he needed to. I loved how physical his game was.

And while I read your bleacher report article, 2 issues arose.

Clutch stats are defined by the Web site as those compiled by a player in the final five minutes of a game or overtime in which the player's team leads by no more than five points and trails by no more than five. 

Further statistical evidence seems to support Anthony's clutch performances. According to ESPN.com, Anthony made 21-of-44 field goals (in situations in which his teams trailed by either one or two points or was tied in the final 24 seconds) in games dating from the start of his career through late January of the 2011 campaign.

First issue, Carmelo's problem to me isn't the last 5 minutes, it's the last 5 seconds. And 2, those stats were through late January of 2011.Melo was traded to the Knicks in late Feb. of 2011. All stats compiled about his closer status were compiled before the trade and before his big contract. It is fair to say Melo was a closer in Denver based on his stats. I bet his stats are worse here.

I also consider Wade a closer. Definately not Bron. I define closer as a guy who I am scared of to take that final shot to finish a team out, be it a buzzer beater or a dagger with 3 minutes to go.a guy can score empty points in the final few minutes. It's buckets that kill rallies, take away momenttum, and demoralize your opponent that I consider clutch or closer shots.

You said last may he was going to the hole and wasn't getting calls, which from what I remember is correct. That was because it was the first time all season he was doing it. I remember his hot streak was all jumpers too. That cooled off too. At the time I remember listening to SAS say how Lebron's hot streak was better than Melo's because Lebron drove. I remember thinking I don't care as long as Melo was making shots. But he doesn't do himself any favors with his post up game being all but forgotten and his slump busters aren't 5-10 foot postups and drives, but 18-25 foot jab step pull ups.

Look how much more effective he was last night from about 15 feet out posting up with that turn around. He was making those and making those late. One of those should have been the final shot not what he took.

tkf wrote:

joec32033 wrote:I called this ending on the time out after the Chandler free throws. Their star will put them up and our star is gonna miss. How the hell does our guy get shown up by a guy that missed a year. The guy with the blown up knee makes an aggressive move to the basket while our guy jab steps a 22 foot 3 when we only need one point. See that look on Melo's face after the miss? That was him wondering about free agency. I feel like I am so done with this guy. All his big talk and bluster and it feels like the guy never comes through.
I thought when he came here he was touted as one of the BEST post up players in the league. He hasn't posted up in 3 freakin' years. Don't you think there is no time better to post up than down by one with 5 seconds to go and you have been shooting like **** the entire game.
How the hell can I be frustrated 2 games into a season you ask? Because it feels like last season. Our guy can take any team in the league as long as they aren't good. Then he comes up short 95% of the time. Kobe can call the guy whatever he wants. Melo aint a closer, and star players who don't possess closer qualities aren't true max players.

you make some good points, but being a closer is more than just scoring... and carmelo is just a scorer... He tends to take bad shots and that is not good for a so called closer... but in fairness rose took a shot with a degree of difficulty that I haven't seen in years.. he can make those, but that isn't a good shot either.... As I said, I rather have efficient players, so the game doesn't have to come come down to one shot.. both carmelo and rose were bricking..

Knixkik wrote:Those who feel Melo is not a closer must have started watching the Knicks yesterday. Even that shot looked great leaving his hand, looked right on the money, and just didn't go in. But that doesn't take away all the game winning shots he has made before. He is one of the most respected closers in the game, along with kobe.

Oh...insults again. Read the thread someone used that one already.

grillco wrote:This is sad folks. Two flipping games into the season and the Knicks are toast and of course it's all on Melo. One missed game winner and he's done. Ridiculous. It's 82 games and no one player can carry it. Yes Dolan's expectations are too high based on what we've seen and assume about this team, but the Bulls are a great team. Yes, Rose was out a season, but he's back to playing and has anewly rehabbed knee regardless of what happened and year less ware on his whole body...no playing the last quarter plus of the season the post season injured. And the Bulls are an established team where Rose knows exactly who he has and what he can expect of them. The Knicks haven't had that since Ewing, Houston, and Spree were on the roster. I'm no saying Melo's the best ever and can do it all (in general or on a regular basis), but let's not overreact to one frigging came on day three of the season.

Objectively, Melo is the Knicks' least problem. Old players, fragile players, underachievers, management, and OWNERSHIP are the real issues that are to be overcome. Realistically, would this team have achieved as much without Melo? Even if he didn't come to NY, all things being equal Amare still goes down, misses way too much of the last few seasons, and Gallo & Co. aren't getting us any further, if even as far. The constant carousel of players, coaches, and other pieces within the organization are a huge issue and they all fall back on Dolan.

Great forum in the off-season, but too many haters during the season. Enjoy the game, root for the team. If you can't do that, it's time to find a new team.

Silverfuel wrote:

grillco wrote:This is sad folks. Two flipping games into the season and the Knicks are toast and of course it's all on Melo. One missed game winner and he's done. Ridiculous. It's 82 games and no one player can carry it. Yes Dolan's expectations are too high based on what we've seen and assume about this team, but the Bulls are a great team. Yes, Rose was out a season, but he's back to playing and has anewly rehabbed knee regardless of what happened and year less ware on his whole body...no playing the last quarter plus of the season the post season injured. And the Bulls are an established team where Rose knows exactly who he has and what he can expect of them. The Knicks haven't had that since Ewing, Houston, and Spree were on the roster. I'm no saying Melo's the best ever and can do it all (in general or on a regular basis), but let's not overreact to one frigging came on day three of the season.

Objectively, Melo is the Knicks' least problem. Old players, fragile players, underachievers, management, and OWNERSHIP are the real issues that are to be overcome. Realistically, would this team have achieved as much without Melo? Even if he didn't come to NY, all things being equal Amare still goes down, misses way too much of the last few seasons, and Gallo & Co. aren't getting us any further, if even as far. The constant carousel of players, coaches, and other pieces within the organization are a huge issue and they all fall back on Dolan.

Great forum in the off-season, but too many haters during the season. Enjoy the game, root for the team. If you can't do that, it's time to find a new team.

Its a joke man. These guys are a joke. Use the ignore feature, it will change your ultimateknicks experience.

Ignore is nice, but you end up seeing their smelly hate trash because other's quote their posts. I find just waiting for Knick win streaks provides much better results.

joec32033 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Those who feel Melo is not a closer must have started watching the Knicks yesterday. Even that shot looked great leaving his hand, looked right on the money, and just didn't go in. But that doesn't take away all the game winning shots he has made before. He is one of the most respected closers in the game, along with kobe.

Oh...insults again. Read the thread someone used that one already.

Joe, you thought that was an insult response? I thought it was thoughtful. Did I read you wrong?

For these stats "Clutch" is defined as:

4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points

Production per 48 Minutes of Clutch Time
Team Player Gm Min +/- +/- Fga Fg% 3pA 3p% Fta Ft% Pts Ast'd Reb Ast T/o Blk Stl
CLE Irving 35 130 -20 -7 38.8 .467 11.1 .300 17.4 80% 53.6 10% 5.5 6.7 10.0 0.4 2.2
LAL Bryant 42 140 14 +5 36.9 .426 10.6 .355 21.5 84% 53.3 26% 9.9 5.8 3.4 0.7 1.4
LAC Paul 27 111 7 +3 27.3 .492 5.2 .167 26.8 90% 52.0 3% 6.1 7.4 3.9 1.3 0.9
OKC Durant 37 145 43 +14 32.0 .392 9.2 .357 24.8 90% 50.8 36% 9.2 3.0 5.0 1.3 1.3
HOU Harden 42 143 12 +4 27.5 .402 8.4 .280 22.4 85% 43.5 12% 8.4 5.4 5.0 1.3 1.7
PHI Holiday 40 121 1 +0 32.5 .476 6.3 .313 9.9 75% 40.4 30% 5.5 10.3 5.9 0.0 1.6
MIA James 35 161 125 +37 28.2 .442 7.4 .280 15.2 76% 38.7 19% 15.2 14.9 2.7 0.6 1.5
NYK Anthony 29 104 17 +8 31.7 .377 7.8 .294 13.8 86% 38.2 23% 12.9 0.0 4.6 0.5 0.9

Another great thread.

martin wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:
Those who feel Melo is not a closer must have started watching the Knicks yesterday. Even that shot looked great leaving his hand, looked right on the money, and just didn't go in. But that doesn't take away all the game winning shots he has made before. He is one of the most respected closers in the game, along with kobe.

Oh...insults again. Read the thread someone used that one already.

Joe, you thought that was an insult response? I thought it was thoughtful. Did I read you wrong?

Twice in this thread. Called holfresh on the same thing. Melo may have been a closer in Denver but his game has been totally different since he got here. He has tried to turn himself into a jump shooter. He isn't. People want to view this as hate? Fine. The want to view it as not knowing the game? Fine. Throw around the insults and **** but I am personally worried. I was a big fan of his game in Denver. He played bully ball on offense. I loved it.

One of the most devestating, versatile, explosive offensive forces in the league has turned himself into a more skilled version of Steve Novak and it's ok. It's ok we haven't seen Melo post up in 3 years. It's ok because on a team who needs post offense because it is a 3 pointer and jump shooting team, take what is arguably the best post player at his position if not in the league and turn him into a jump shooter. It's ok to let our most skilled player and possibly the most skilled and versatile player on offense in the league and turn him into a one dimensional offensive presence.

Tell you what, people want to think say "oh whoever must have started watching basketball yesterday" I submit people who believe Melo is the same player he was in Denver must not have known WHAT they were watching in their long storied history of watching this game.