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Mike Woodson please put melo back at 4
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smackeddog
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10/27/2013  11:44 AM
callmened wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Just watching tape again. Melo looks very uncomfortable w bargs. Melo was a superstar last year at 4 and we. Won 54 games. Must go back to this. Either move attest or jr into sl move bargs back to 2 unit and play Brno as the 2unit. Sg. Not ph. He makes too many mistakes. He's a good player but he needs to be with Pablo or ray. Carmelo in unit 1 as a 4. Opens up everything. Please consider

Ive agreed with this from day 1 and heres why:
- knicks had lots of success with Melo at the 4..the formula WORKS!

Until we get to the playoffs! I'm not sure- it might be better sacrificing some regular season wins and instead try and develop a style that might get us further in the playoffs. We need to learn how to play big successfully. Melo is a 3, he's had a lot of success as a 3. He was great at PF last season but he essentially got beaten to within an inch of his basketball life by guys like David West, Garnett etc. He looks thinner this year (a bit to thin for PF) and his shoulder is vulnerable. I'd rather keep him at SF.
AUTOADVERT
dk7th
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10/27/2013  12:12 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/27/2013  12:13 PM
see how tweeners can mess things up?

melo is not at syracuse anymore but he plays as though he is:

the nba reality is that defensively he is too small to guard fours and too slow to guard threes.

offensively he may be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- small forwards. similarly he will be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- fours.

so while he is at a defensive disadvantage almost all the time, he needs to make up for it somehow offensively... and he hasn't shown the ability to do that at nearly a proficient enough level. 46%FG and 55-56%TS just isn't good enough.

so the best things he and woodson can collaborate on are...

1) raising his TS% to 58%TS and above, which will go a long way. this should be their focus. limit the number of shots to 17-18 per game-- no more heat check threes!-- and get to the line 10 times a game by intentionally drawing fouls-- shelve the bully ball if you can't finish and get them in foul trouble. this is the big secret to playoff attrition... getting your defenders in foul trouble early.

2) reduce usage to 28% and raise your assist rate to somewhere around 17% for a ratio of around 1.70:1 which is acceptable. never mind raw assists. if he is still at a sickly 2.5 per game, mainly because he is incapable of passing off of his drives to the basket, that's okay... but he has got to contribute more to offensive cohesion by moving the ball when driving to the basket is not an option.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
smackeddog
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10/27/2013  12:48 PM
dk7th wrote:see how tweeners can mess things up?

melo is not at syracuse anymore but he plays as though he is:

the nba reality is that defensively he is too small to guard fours and too slow to guard threes.

offensively he may be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- small forwards. similarly he will be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- fours.

so while he is at a defensive disadvantage almost all the time, he needs to make up for it somehow offensively... and he hasn't shown the ability to do that at nearly a proficient enough level. 46%FG and 55-56%TS just isn't good enough.

so the best things he and woodson can collaborate on are...

1) raising his TS% to 58%TS and above, which will go a long way. this should be their focus. limit the number of shots to 17-18 per game-- no more heat check threes!-- and get to the line 10 times a game by intentionally drawing fouls-- shelve the bully ball if you can't finish and get them in foul trouble. this is the big secret to playoff attrition... getting your defenders in foul trouble early.

2) reduce usage to 28% and raise your assist rate to somewhere around 17% for a ratio of around 1.70:1 which is acceptable. never mind raw assists. if he is still at a sickly 2.5 per game, mainly because he is incapable of passing off of his drives to the basket, that's okay... but he has got to contribute more to offensive cohesion by moving the ball when driving to the basket is not an option.

I think you're one of the only people to describe Melo as a tweener! He has flaws, but that ain't one of them!
CrushAlot
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10/27/2013  12:51 PM
dk7th wrote:see how tweeners can mess things up?

melo is not at syracuse anymore but he plays as though he is:

the nba reality is that defensively he is too small to guard fours and too slow to guard threes.

offensively he may be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- small forwards. similarly he will be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- fours.

so while he is at a defensive disadvantage almost all the time, he needs to make up for it somehow offensively... and he hasn't shown the ability to do that at nearly a proficient enough level. 46%FG and 55-56%TS just isn't good enough.

so the best things he and woodson can collaborate on are...

1) raising his TS% to 58%TS and above, which will go a long way. this should be their focus. limit the number of shots to 17-18 per game-- no more heat check threes!-- and get to the line 10 times a game by intentionally drawing fouls-- shelve the bully ball if you can't finish and get them in foul trouble. this is the big secret to playoff attrition... getting your defenders in foul trouble early.

2) reduce usage to 28% and raise your assist rate to somewhere around 17% for a ratio of around 1.70:1 which is acceptable. never mind raw assists. if he is still at a sickly 2.5 per game, mainly because he is incapable of passing off of his drives to the basket, that's okay... but he has got to contribute more to offensive cohesion by moving the ball when driving to the basket is not an option.

Knicks are in the ecf if Melo's teammates don't find away to become invisible in the second round. Nice problem to have. Especially when your franchise finished under .500 for over a decade.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Bonn1997
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10/27/2013  12:59 PM
smackeddog wrote:
dk7th wrote:see how tweeners can mess things up?

melo is not at syracuse anymore but he plays as though he is:

the nba reality is that defensively he is too small to guard fours and too slow to guard threes.

offensively he may be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- small forwards. similarly he will be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- fours.

so while he is at a defensive disadvantage almost all the time, he needs to make up for it somehow offensively... and he hasn't shown the ability to do that at nearly a proficient enough level. 46%FG and 55-56%TS just isn't good enough.

so the best things he and woodson can collaborate on are...

1) raising his TS% to 58%TS and above, which will go a long way. this should be their focus. limit the number of shots to 17-18 per game-- no more heat check threes!-- and get to the line 10 times a game by intentionally drawing fouls-- shelve the bully ball if you can't finish and get them in foul trouble. this is the big secret to playoff attrition... getting your defenders in foul trouble early.

2) reduce usage to 28% and raise your assist rate to somewhere around 17% for a ratio of around 1.70:1 which is acceptable. never mind raw assists. if he is still at a sickly 2.5 per game, mainly because he is incapable of passing off of his drives to the basket, that's okay... but he has got to contribute more to offensive cohesion by moving the ball when driving to the basket is not an option.

I think you're one of the only people to describe Melo as a tweener! He has flaws, but that ain't one of them!

Tweener means that you're between 2 positions rather than fitting one very well (hence the name). It seems pretty accurate here.
Bonn1997
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10/27/2013  1:01 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/27/2013  1:02 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:see how tweeners can mess things up?

melo is not at syracuse anymore but he plays as though he is:

the nba reality is that defensively he is too small to guard fours and too slow to guard threes.

offensively he may be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- small forwards. similarly he will be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- fours.

so while he is at a defensive disadvantage almost all the time, he needs to make up for it somehow offensively... and he hasn't shown the ability to do that at nearly a proficient enough level. 46%FG and 55-56%TS just isn't good enough.

so the best things he and woodson can collaborate on are...

1) raising his TS% to 58%TS and above, which will go a long way. this should be their focus. limit the number of shots to 17-18 per game-- no more heat check threes!-- and get to the line 10 times a game by intentionally drawing fouls-- shelve the bully ball if you can't finish and get them in foul trouble. this is the big secret to playoff attrition... getting your defenders in foul trouble early.

2) reduce usage to 28% and raise your assist rate to somewhere around 17% for a ratio of around 1.70:1 which is acceptable. never mind raw assists. if he is still at a sickly 2.5 per game, mainly because he is incapable of passing off of his drives to the basket, that's okay... but he has got to contribute more to offensive cohesion by moving the ball when driving to the basket is not an option.

Knicks are in the ecf if Melo's teammates don't find away to become invisible in the second round. Nice problem to have. Especially when your franchise finished under .500 for over a decade.

GTFOH. (Sorry to be blunt.) Who cares about what didn't happen?
dk7th
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10/27/2013  1:01 PM
smackeddog wrote:
dk7th wrote:see how tweeners can mess things up?

melo is not at syracuse anymore but he plays as though he is:

the nba reality is that defensively he is too small to guard fours and too slow to guard threes.

offensively he may be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- small forwards. similarly he will be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- fours.

so while he is at a defensive disadvantage almost all the time, he needs to make up for it somehow offensively... and he hasn't shown the ability to do that at nearly a proficient enough level. 46%FG and 55-56%TS just isn't good enough.

so the best things he and woodson can collaborate on are...

1) raising his TS% to 58%TS and above, which will go a long way. this should be their focus. limit the number of shots to 17-18 per game-- no more heat check threes!-- and get to the line 10 times a game by intentionally drawing fouls-- shelve the bully ball if you can't finish and get them in foul trouble. this is the big secret to playoff attrition... getting your defenders in foul trouble early.

2) reduce usage to 28% and raise your assist rate to somewhere around 17% for a ratio of around 1.70:1 which is acceptable. never mind raw assists. if he is still at a sickly 2.5 per game, mainly because he is incapable of passing off of his drives to the basket, that's okay... but he has got to contribute more to offensive cohesion by moving the ball when driving to the basket is not an option.

I think you're one of the only people to describe Melo as a tweener! He has flaws, but that ain't one of them!

he is too small for power forward and too slow for small forward as we saw in the playoffs. it's hard to imagine where you would disagree with me, but if you disagree with the portrayal in terms of these specifics then please explain where you disagree.

alternatively, tell me what melo can do better to help his team other than what i described.

the remedies for what is wrong with his game are achievable.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
Knixkik
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10/27/2013  1:02 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
dk7th wrote:see how tweeners can mess things up?

melo is not at syracuse anymore but he plays as though he is:

the nba reality is that defensively he is too small to guard fours and too slow to guard threes.

offensively he may be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- small forwards. similarly he will be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- fours.

so while he is at a defensive disadvantage almost all the time, he needs to make up for it somehow offensively... and he hasn't shown the ability to do that at nearly a proficient enough level. 46%FG and 55-56%TS just isn't good enough.

so the best things he and woodson can collaborate on are...

1) raising his TS% to 58%TS and above, which will go a long way. this should be their focus. limit the number of shots to 17-18 per game-- no more heat check threes!-- and get to the line 10 times a game by intentionally drawing fouls-- shelve the bully ball if you can't finish and get them in foul trouble. this is the big secret to playoff attrition... getting your defenders in foul trouble early.

2) reduce usage to 28% and raise your assist rate to somewhere around 17% for a ratio of around 1.70:1 which is acceptable. never mind raw assists. if he is still at a sickly 2.5 per game, mainly because he is incapable of passing off of his drives to the basket, that's okay... but he has got to contribute more to offensive cohesion by moving the ball when driving to the basket is not an option.

I think you're one of the only people to describe Melo as a tweener! He has flaws, but that ain't one of them!

Tweener means that you're between 2 positions rather than fitting one very well (hence the name). It seems pretty accurate here.

There's a difference between a tweener and a hybrid. Tweener is a weakness where a player can't fit either position well. Melo plays both the 3 and 4 at a high level, an allstar level, that's a hybrid.
Bonn1997
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10/27/2013  1:03 PM
Knixkik wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
dk7th wrote:see how tweeners can mess things up?

melo is not at syracuse anymore but he plays as though he is:

the nba reality is that defensively he is too small to guard fours and too slow to guard threes.

offensively he may be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- small forwards. similarly he will be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- fours.

so while he is at a defensive disadvantage almost all the time, he needs to make up for it somehow offensively... and he hasn't shown the ability to do that at nearly a proficient enough level. 46%FG and 55-56%TS just isn't good enough.

so the best things he and woodson can collaborate on are...

1) raising his TS% to 58%TS and above, which will go a long way. this should be their focus. limit the number of shots to 17-18 per game-- no more heat check threes!-- and get to the line 10 times a game by intentionally drawing fouls-- shelve the bully ball if you can't finish and get them in foul trouble. this is the big secret to playoff attrition... getting your defenders in foul trouble early.

2) reduce usage to 28% and raise your assist rate to somewhere around 17% for a ratio of around 1.70:1 which is acceptable. never mind raw assists. if he is still at a sickly 2.5 per game, mainly because he is incapable of passing off of his drives to the basket, that's okay... but he has got to contribute more to offensive cohesion by moving the ball when driving to the basket is not an option.

I think you're one of the only people to describe Melo as a tweener! He has flaws, but that ain't one of them!

Tweener means that you're between 2 positions rather than fitting one very well (hence the name). It seems pretty accurate here.

There's a difference between a tweener and a hybrid. Tweener is a weakness where a player can't fit either position well. Melo plays both the 3 and 4 at a high level, an allstar level, that's a hybrid.

No, Melo is just a volume scoring specialist at either position.
TeamBall
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10/27/2013  1:05 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:see how tweeners can mess things up?

melo is not at syracuse anymore but he plays as though he is:

the nba reality is that defensively he is too small to guard fours and too slow to guard threes.

offensively he may be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- small forwards. similarly he will be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- fours.

so while he is at a defensive disadvantage almost all the time, he needs to make up for it somehow offensively... and he hasn't shown the ability to do that at nearly a proficient enough level. 46%FG and 55-56%TS just isn't good enough.

so the best things he and woodson can collaborate on are...

1) raising his TS% to 58%TS and above, which will go a long way. this should be their focus. limit the number of shots to 17-18 per game-- no more heat check threes!-- and get to the line 10 times a game by intentionally drawing fouls-- shelve the bully ball if you can't finish and get them in foul trouble. this is the big secret to playoff attrition... getting your defenders in foul trouble early.

2) reduce usage to 28% and raise your assist rate to somewhere around 17% for a ratio of around 1.70:1 which is acceptable. never mind raw assists. if he is still at a sickly 2.5 per game, mainly because he is incapable of passing off of his drives to the basket, that's okay... but he has got to contribute more to offensive cohesion by moving the ball when driving to the basket is not an option.

Knicks are in the ecf if Melo's teammates don't find away to become invisible in the second round. Nice problem to have. Especially when your franchise finished under .500 for over a decade.

Don't put it all on them. Melo didn't play so well himself.
Knicksfan: Hypocrite league that fines players after the game for flopping but in the game and with obvious flopping they call the fouls.
TeamBall
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10/27/2013  1:07 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
dk7th wrote:see how tweeners can mess things up?

melo is not at syracuse anymore but he plays as though he is:

the nba reality is that defensively he is too small to guard fours and too slow to guard threes.

offensively he may be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- small forwards. similarly he will be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- fours.

so while he is at a defensive disadvantage almost all the time, he needs to make up for it somehow offensively... and he hasn't shown the ability to do that at nearly a proficient enough level. 46%FG and 55-56%TS just isn't good enough.

so the best things he and woodson can collaborate on are...

1) raising his TS% to 58%TS and above, which will go a long way. this should be their focus. limit the number of shots to 17-18 per game-- no more heat check threes!-- and get to the line 10 times a game by intentionally drawing fouls-- shelve the bully ball if you can't finish and get them in foul trouble. this is the big secret to playoff attrition... getting your defenders in foul trouble early.

2) reduce usage to 28% and raise your assist rate to somewhere around 17% for a ratio of around 1.70:1 which is acceptable. never mind raw assists. if he is still at a sickly 2.5 per game, mainly because he is incapable of passing off of his drives to the basket, that's okay... but he has got to contribute more to offensive cohesion by moving the ball when driving to the basket is not an option.

I think you're one of the only people to describe Melo as a tweener! He has flaws, but that ain't one of them!

Tweener means that you're between 2 positions rather than fitting one very well (hence the name). It seems pretty accurate here.

There's a difference between a tweener and a hybrid. Tweener is a weakness where a player can't fit either position well. Melo plays both the 3 and 4 at a high level, an allstar level, that's a hybrid.

No, Melo is just a volume scoring specialist at either position.


I don't see how you can say no to that when he is an all star
Knicksfan: Hypocrite league that fines players after the game for flopping but in the game and with obvious flopping they call the fouls.
dk7th
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10/27/2013  1:39 PM
Knixkik wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
dk7th wrote:see how tweeners can mess things up?

melo is not at syracuse anymore but he plays as though he is:

the nba reality is that defensively he is too small to guard fours and too slow to guard threes.

offensively he may be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- small forwards. similarly he will be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- fours.

so while he is at a defensive disadvantage almost all the time, he needs to make up for it somehow offensively... and he hasn't shown the ability to do that at nearly a proficient enough level. 46%FG and 55-56%TS just isn't good enough.

so the best things he and woodson can collaborate on are...

1) raising his TS% to 58%TS and above, which will go a long way. this should be their focus. limit the number of shots to 17-18 per game-- no more heat check threes!-- and get to the line 10 times a game by intentionally drawing fouls-- shelve the bully ball if you can't finish and get them in foul trouble. this is the big secret to playoff attrition... getting your defenders in foul trouble early.

2) reduce usage to 28% and raise your assist rate to somewhere around 17% for a ratio of around 1.70:1 which is acceptable. never mind raw assists. if he is still at a sickly 2.5 per game, mainly because he is incapable of passing off of his drives to the basket, that's okay... but he has got to contribute more to offensive cohesion by moving the ball when driving to the basket is not an option.

I think you're one of the only people to describe Melo as a tweener! He has flaws, but that ain't one of them!

Tweener means that you're between 2 positions rather than fitting one very well (hence the name). It seems pretty accurate here.

There's a difference between a tweener and a hybrid. Tweener is a weakness where a player can't fit either position well. Melo plays both the 3 and 4 at a high level, an allstar level, that's a hybrid.

yeah like i said he is a tweener. in the playoffs he has trouble, weaknesses magnified and strengths nullified. who cares about a popularity contest like the all-star game?

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
Bonn1997
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10/27/2013  1:44 PM
TeamBall wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
dk7th wrote:see how tweeners can mess things up?

melo is not at syracuse anymore but he plays as though he is:

the nba reality is that defensively he is too small to guard fours and too slow to guard threes.

offensively he may be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- small forwards. similarly he will be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- fours.

so while he is at a defensive disadvantage almost all the time, he needs to make up for it somehow offensively... and he hasn't shown the ability to do that at nearly a proficient enough level. 46%FG and 55-56%TS just isn't good enough.

so the best things he and woodson can collaborate on are...

1) raising his TS% to 58%TS and above, which will go a long way. this should be their focus. limit the number of shots to 17-18 per game-- no more heat check threes!-- and get to the line 10 times a game by intentionally drawing fouls-- shelve the bully ball if you can't finish and get them in foul trouble. this is the big secret to playoff attrition... getting your defenders in foul trouble early.

2) reduce usage to 28% and raise your assist rate to somewhere around 17% for a ratio of around 1.70:1 which is acceptable. never mind raw assists. if he is still at a sickly 2.5 per game, mainly because he is incapable of passing off of his drives to the basket, that's okay... but he has got to contribute more to offensive cohesion by moving the ball when driving to the basket is not an option.

I think you're one of the only people to describe Melo as a tweener! He has flaws, but that ain't one of them!

Tweener means that you're between 2 positions rather than fitting one very well (hence the name). It seems pretty accurate here.

There's a difference between a tweener and a hybrid. Tweener is a weakness where a player can't fit either position well. Melo plays both the 3 and 4 at a high level, an allstar level, that's a hybrid.

No, Melo is just a volume scoring specialist at either position.


I don't see how you can say no to that when he is an all star

I never denied that he was very popular. High PPG will do that.
TeamBall
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10/27/2013  1:45 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
dk7th wrote:see how tweeners can mess things up?

melo is not at syracuse anymore but he plays as though he is:

the nba reality is that defensively he is too small to guard fours and too slow to guard threes.

offensively he may be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- small forwards. similarly he will be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- fours.

so while he is at a defensive disadvantage almost all the time, he needs to make up for it somehow offensively... and he hasn't shown the ability to do that at nearly a proficient enough level. 46%FG and 55-56%TS just isn't good enough.

so the best things he and woodson can collaborate on are...

1) raising his TS% to 58%TS and above, which will go a long way. this should be their focus. limit the number of shots to 17-18 per game-- no more heat check threes!-- and get to the line 10 times a game by intentionally drawing fouls-- shelve the bully ball if you can't finish and get them in foul trouble. this is the big secret to playoff attrition... getting your defenders in foul trouble early.

2) reduce usage to 28% and raise your assist rate to somewhere around 17% for a ratio of around 1.70:1 which is acceptable. never mind raw assists. if he is still at a sickly 2.5 per game, mainly because he is incapable of passing off of his drives to the basket, that's okay... but he has got to contribute more to offensive cohesion by moving the ball when driving to the basket is not an option.

I think you're one of the only people to describe Melo as a tweener! He has flaws, but that ain't one of them!

Tweener means that you're between 2 positions rather than fitting one very well (hence the name). It seems pretty accurate here.

There's a difference between a tweener and a hybrid. Tweener is a weakness where a player can't fit either position well. Melo plays both the 3 and 4 at a high level, an allstar level, that's a hybrid.

No, Melo is just a volume scoring specialist at either position.


I don't see how you can say no to that when he is an all star

I never denied that he was very popular. High PPG will do that.

So if he somehow didn't get voted in by the fans you don't think the coaches would vote him in?
Knicksfan: Hypocrite league that fines players after the game for flopping but in the game and with obvious flopping they call the fouls.
Bonn1997
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10/27/2013  1:56 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/27/2013  1:56 PM
TeamBall wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
dk7th wrote:see how tweeners can mess things up?

melo is not at syracuse anymore but he plays as though he is:

the nba reality is that defensively he is too small to guard fours and too slow to guard threes.

offensively he may be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- small forwards. similarly he will be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- fours.

so while he is at a defensive disadvantage almost all the time, he needs to make up for it somehow offensively... and he hasn't shown the ability to do that at nearly a proficient enough level. 46%FG and 55-56%TS just isn't good enough.

so the best things he and woodson can collaborate on are...

1) raising his TS% to 58%TS and above, which will go a long way. this should be their focus. limit the number of shots to 17-18 per game-- no more heat check threes!-- and get to the line 10 times a game by intentionally drawing fouls-- shelve the bully ball if you can't finish and get them in foul trouble. this is the big secret to playoff attrition... getting your defenders in foul trouble early.

2) reduce usage to 28% and raise your assist rate to somewhere around 17% for a ratio of around 1.70:1 which is acceptable. never mind raw assists. if he is still at a sickly 2.5 per game, mainly because he is incapable of passing off of his drives to the basket, that's okay... but he has got to contribute more to offensive cohesion by moving the ball when driving to the basket is not an option.

I think you're one of the only people to describe Melo as a tweener! He has flaws, but that ain't one of them!

Tweener means that you're between 2 positions rather than fitting one very well (hence the name). It seems pretty accurate here.

There's a difference between a tweener and a hybrid. Tweener is a weakness where a player can't fit either position well. Melo plays both the 3 and 4 at a high level, an allstar level, that's a hybrid.

No, Melo is just a volume scoring specialist at either position.


I don't see how you can say no to that when he is an all star

I never denied that he was very popular. High PPG will do that.

So if he somehow didn't get voted in by the fans you don't think the coaches would vote him in?

High PPG makes you popular with coaches and GMs too. It's the main reason GMs are clueless about how much players are worth and there's almost no correlation between team salary and winning. I suspect this is gradually changing but still mostly the case.
tj23
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10/27/2013  2:15 PM
I don't think tweener is necessarily a flaw. Maybe I'm wrong. But either way Melo ball works better when we play small but more importantly space the floor. If Barg isn't hitting the floor tightens up and only makes it harder for our weak passing team. The other advantage is to use Melo's quickness against slower 4's. It's gimmicky but I think the pros outweigh the cons, particularly in the reg season.
gunsnewing
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10/27/2013  2:17 PM
Exactly a regular season gimmick. Our $29mil man is a gimmick
Knixkik
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10/27/2013  3:04 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
dk7th wrote:see how tweeners can mess things up?

melo is not at syracuse anymore but he plays as though he is:

the nba reality is that defensively he is too small to guard fours and too slow to guard threes.

offensively he may be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- small forwards. similarly he will be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- fours.

so while he is at a defensive disadvantage almost all the time, he needs to make up for it somehow offensively... and he hasn't shown the ability to do that at nearly a proficient enough level. 46%FG and 55-56%TS just isn't good enough.

so the best things he and woodson can collaborate on are...

1) raising his TS% to 58%TS and above, which will go a long way. this should be their focus. limit the number of shots to 17-18 per game-- no more heat check threes!-- and get to the line 10 times a game by intentionally drawing fouls-- shelve the bully ball if you can't finish and get them in foul trouble. this is the big secret to playoff attrition... getting your defenders in foul trouble early.

2) reduce usage to 28% and raise your assist rate to somewhere around 17% for a ratio of around 1.70:1 which is acceptable. never mind raw assists. if he is still at a sickly 2.5 per game, mainly because he is incapable of passing off of his drives to the basket, that's okay... but he has got to contribute more to offensive cohesion by moving the ball when driving to the basket is not an option.

I think you're one of the only people to describe Melo as a tweener! He has flaws, but that ain't one of them!

Tweener means that you're between 2 positions rather than fitting one very well (hence the name). It seems pretty accurate here.

There's a difference between a tweener and a hybrid. Tweener is a weakness where a player can't fit either position well. Melo plays both the 3 and 4 at a high level, an allstar level, that's a hybrid.

No, Melo is just a volume scoring specialist at either position.


I don't see how you can say no to that when he is an all star

I never denied that he was very popular. High PPG will do that.

So if he somehow didn't get voted in by the fans you don't think the coaches would vote him in?

High PPG makes you popular with coaches and GMs too. It's the main reason GMs are clueless about how much players are worth and there's almost no correlation between team salary and winning. I suspect this is gradually changing but still mostly the case.

So every GM and coach in the league is wrong by wanting Melo on their team as a starting forward? Make no mistake about it, every GM and coach in the league would want Melo and would pay either max or a very high salary closer to max than not. Just because some people aren't fans of his doesn't make every GM and coach who is in the league clueless about his value.
Bonn1997
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10/27/2013  3:17 PM
Knixkik wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
dk7th wrote:see how tweeners can mess things up?

melo is not at syracuse anymore but he plays as though he is:

the nba reality is that defensively he is too small to guard fours and too slow to guard threes.

offensively he may be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- small forwards. similarly he will be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- fours.

so while he is at a defensive disadvantage almost all the time, he needs to make up for it somehow offensively... and he hasn't shown the ability to do that at nearly a proficient enough level. 46%FG and 55-56%TS just isn't good enough.

so the best things he and woodson can collaborate on are...

1) raising his TS% to 58%TS and above, which will go a long way. this should be their focus. limit the number of shots to 17-18 per game-- no more heat check threes!-- and get to the line 10 times a game by intentionally drawing fouls-- shelve the bully ball if you can't finish and get them in foul trouble. this is the big secret to playoff attrition... getting your defenders in foul trouble early.

2) reduce usage to 28% and raise your assist rate to somewhere around 17% for a ratio of around 1.70:1 which is acceptable. never mind raw assists. if he is still at a sickly 2.5 per game, mainly because he is incapable of passing off of his drives to the basket, that's okay... but he has got to contribute more to offensive cohesion by moving the ball when driving to the basket is not an option.

I think you're one of the only people to describe Melo as a tweener! He has flaws, but that ain't one of them!

Tweener means that you're between 2 positions rather than fitting one very well (hence the name). It seems pretty accurate here.

There's a difference between a tweener and a hybrid. Tweener is a weakness where a player can't fit either position well. Melo plays both the 3 and 4 at a high level, an allstar level, that's a hybrid.

No, Melo is just a volume scoring specialist at either position.


I don't see how you can say no to that when he is an all star

I never denied that he was very popular. High PPG will do that.

So if he somehow didn't get voted in by the fans you don't think the coaches would vote him in?

High PPG makes you popular with coaches and GMs too. It's the main reason GMs are clueless about how much players are worth and there's almost no correlation between team salary and winning. I suspect this is gradually changing but still mostly the case.

So every GM and coach in the league is wrong by wanting Melo on their team as a starting forward? Make no mistake about it, every GM and coach in the league would want Melo and would pay either max or a very high salary closer to max than not. Just because some people aren't fans of his doesn't make every GM and coach who is in the league clueless about his value.

I don't even know where to begin:
A) You're citing fictional data about how coaches would use Melo
B) You're refuting a claim I never made (that Melo is not even good enough to be on an NBA team's starting lineup)
C) You're acknowledging something I already said. Melo is great at the one thing that gets you paid - high PPG. So of course, I would readily grant he'd get paid as an FA.
D) Ugh nevermind.
knickscity
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10/27/2013  3:21 PM
Speaking of the 4 spot, did anyone read this today......

Woodson said both Stoudemire, 30, and Martin, 35, will start with a minutes limit of 10 per game this season. But the coach is hopeful that the limit can increase as the season goes along.

"We're going to see where it takes us," Woodson said.

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/49187/woody-stat-k-mart-to-alternate

And some really think this team got better.
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Mike Woodson please put melo back at 4
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