[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

The Day Knick basketball died
Author Thread
EnySpree
Posts: 44919
Alba Posts: 138
Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397

4/22/2004  11:56 AM
No Rebuild needed.....at least not the term.

Isiah Thomas did just that and he rebuilt the Knicks in a matter of weeks.

What he's done is layed out a blue print of where the team is at and what he has to do to get guys in here that will play the game the way it's supposed to be played. No need for the overhaul 10 year plan. Knicks are another trade, free agent signing, training camp away from somthing.....something better than what we see out there.

You gotta believe in Isiah. He's proven he is not Layden. He will not fail us.

Wanna know something....I bet if Moochie or Othella were in the game they would have stepped up. Like if Othella was right there instead of Baker. Othella would have definately stepped up.

Neither will be a Knicks next year anyway.

[Edited by - enyspree on 04/22/2004 12:04:27]
Subscribe to my Podcast https://youtube.com/c/DiehardknicksPodcast https://twitter.com/DiehardknicksPC https://instagram.com/diehardknickspodcast
AUTOADVERT
EnySpree
Posts: 44919
Alba Posts: 138
Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397

4/22/2004  11:59 AM
Posted by tkf:

enyspree: I am with you man,where is the pride, where is the love for your teamate, I mean it is too late now to retaliate, this should have been done!! Now I dissagree briggs, oakley never made these types of fouls on a regular basis, just stop that please, those old knicks gave good hard fouls, but this foul was a joke, a guy goes airborn you challenge the shot, you don't grab him, you don't go for his body or legs, that is Bull!!! Collins is a big, doofy, herman Munster look alike, and is a cheap shot artist, he knew what he was doing.... I too would be dissapointed if I were TT.. Look the knicks are probably not good enough to beat the nets, and the nets are going out of their way to humiliate us on the court, the chest pounding, the assanine dancing and prancing, the friggin throwing the ball off the glass for dunks, I mean come on man!!!!!! Damn!!! If you are letting that happen and you can't stop that, well that is fine, but don't let them physically abuse you too... that is something you can do something about!!! and we didn't!!

You da man TkF!
Subscribe to my Podcast https://youtube.com/c/DiehardknicksPodcast https://twitter.com/DiehardknicksPC https://instagram.com/diehardknickspodcast
jazz74
Posts: 22318
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 12/24/2002
Member: #371
4/22/2004  12:33 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

the best answer to the nets is to go out and play hard and win. if during the game we hit someone a little harder than we should, so be it. but the bottom line is we are getting manhandled and now we are the team that is crying. isnt it clear to see? this team is rag tag soft and put together so poorly and it is shows. we have already done more trading the past few years than teams have done in DECADES! it's enough! it hasnt worked--this team needs a fresh start with a solid plan. i dont uinderstand how some of you guys dont get it. i never wanted KVH I dont want Tt Nazr Penny this teamn scks and there are way to many older parts with to many mediocre players. this team has very little future and this azz-whoopin should open people's eyes.

wait a minute, briggs. you are kind of contradicting yourself. you complain about all of the trading. well, according to your plan would'nt we need to trade some more? now i am not going around town saying the knicks are the best team in the world. but we are far from the worst. i like our starting lineup minus kurt thomas and sweetney, f-will and johnson are bright spots on the bench. i am not a fan of penny, anderson, othello or moochie. mutumbo needs to go too. but you want us to get rid of everything to draft two high school students that could end up like curry or chandler or worse ( leon smith?). that does not make any sense when i think we are a couple of peices shy of being an eastern conference contender.
fishmike
Posts: 53829
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
4/22/2004  1:58 PM
no offense but asking for a fresh start is stupid. There were what... 9 guys on the roster with 3 or more years when this year started? The time for a fresh start was when Ewing retired. Had we done then what the Jazz have done post Malone/Stockton that would have been possible. But instead we decided Glen Rice was what we needed. Then max extensions to Houston and Sprewell. Then trading for Eisley and Anderson with 5-6 year deals. Then giving up picks for Harrington, Strickland and Mark Jackson.

Get over it.. its not only NOT going to happen its totally not feasable. Lets talk about a growing food in a big green house in Antartica where its dark for 20 hours a day.

There is only one option with this team and payroll, and thats to add young players and develop a pipeline while getting what you can out of the overpriced talent you have.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
EnySpree
Posts: 44919
Alba Posts: 138
Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397

4/22/2004  2:11 PM
Posted by fishmike:


Get over it.. its not only NOT going to happen its totally not feasable. Lets talk about a growing food in a big green house in Antartica where its dark for 20 hours a day.

I gotta use that.....lol.
Funny stuff.

I'm like patroling this post. I'm done till tonight.

Ps: Shandon Anderson is a waste of an expensive uniform.
Subscribe to my Podcast https://youtube.com/c/DiehardknicksPodcast https://twitter.com/DiehardknicksPC https://instagram.com/diehardknickspodcast
Nalod
Posts: 71159
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
4/22/2004  2:23 PM
Fugazy!

Alot of you do make sense, I am suprised an Isiah team would be this docile. All words, no back up.

I would be disappointed if TT goes out and were to injure on purpose. The Knicks should have took it right back to them right then and there, not in the papers talking! Step up at the time, but purpose injury after the fact is bull.

If not, take your ass wooping like a man and hit the gym, the waiver wire, the foul line, what ever to make yourself better, and your team.

TT has not earned any respect by the players or the League just yet. He has great potential and now its

The day Knick basketball died: 1977 trade of Walt Frazier to the Cleveland Cavaliers! Think about it, the team has never been fundamentally sound since. Ewing was the real deal surrounded by misfits and players past prime. I liked that team, andperhaps if not for the bulls they may have a ring or two, but then like know, its about the instant buzz and management unwilling to do whats needed to build a team.

Lets be real, this team has some upside potential, but Detroit is already building for the future with Oker ,Darko and prince, and they are contenders now.

And remember, Isiah did not build Indiana, that goes to Walsh the GM. Isiah did a nice job with young parts, but he did not construct that squad. Dumars had done a great job with Detroit. I know The buzz is they should have taken Carmelo, but Darko is the youngest player in the league, and at 7foot with his build and agility, he could be a great one. Indy has a great young core also that will last years. We have Marbury and little else.

I look forward to see what Isiah can do going forward.
OldFan
Posts: 21456
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2003
Member: #446
4/22/2004  3:45 PM
Posted by tkf:

enyspree: I am with you man,where is the pride, where is the love for your teamate, I mean it is too late now to retaliate, this should have been done!! Now I dissagree briggs, oakley never made these types of fouls on a regular basis, just stop that please, those old knicks gave good hard fouls, but this foul was a joke, a guy goes airborn you challenge the shot, you don't grab him, you don't go for his body or legs, that is Bull!!! Collins is a big, doofy, herman Munster look alike, and is a cheap shot artist, he knew what he was doing.... I too would be dissapointed if I were TT.. Look the knicks are probably not good enough to beat the nets, and the nets are going out of their way to humiliate us on the court, the chest pounding, the assanine dancing and prancing, the friggin throwing the ball off the glass for dunks, I mean come on man!!!!!! Damn!!! If you are letting that happen and you can't stop that, well that is fine, but don't let them physically abuse you too... that is something you can do something about!!! and we didn't!!

Yes Oakley did. Oakley had no rise at all and would never let someone go in for an uncontested dunk - so he took the body. Look I'm a Knick fan but facts are facts. That was a playoff foul it happens all the time and the Knicks did it consistently in the Oakley Ewing error.

As far as the Chest pounding - didn't we all Love Starks for that type of thing. Be real - the Nets aren't dirty and they aren't doing anything to embarass the Knicks but kickin A..

Nalod
Posts: 71159
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
4/22/2004  4:20 PM
Nets are finally getting respect in NY after two trips to the finals.

Kenyon does not have to hoot and holler, but thats his game and he is exercising that muscle.

I have never been embarassed over this team until this year. Last year even with chaney they played hard, with dignity, pride and as a unit. I understand they have yet to gel together and unity takes time. But the whining and complaining is bull.

I hated when spree came in and dissed the team, and I hate this docile crap on the floor.

The team can earn respect by defending themselves on the court. Not stupid thuggery, but playing hard and wanting to win.

Take and ass whooping like a man, learn and grow from it and come back next year bigger, faster and stronger.

If Isiah does coach, it should just be for year. THen let his boy aguire do the job, or better yet, let him do it first.

Now I know why they wanted to play detroit so bad! gettng wooped up by cross town rival not cool and bad for business.

The New York press is calling for the end of Knicks as top dog!

All I can say is this day was coming for a long time. Quick fix of players dating all the way back to the Bob Mcadoo-Spencer Haywood days, and with ewing (trading away youth and picks) era would eventually leave them. Im sorry, we don't have much to work with in the off season and Isiah has got to work with this group to get them better. That is the teams short term salvation.

The nets have a nice Euro center coming next year. Even if Kidd ages out in two years, they could still have Kenyan and Jefferson, with perhaps Kristic as a young core to get in Brooklyn.

Again, Detroit, Nets, Indiana, Cleveland are all ahead of the knicks for now, and in the future with developing youth. They will get better also! We need to improve just to duplicate making the playoffs next year.

Our problem predates laydog, Grunfeld, and even checketts! 27 years of false mismanagement and instant gradification.

Question is: while we are better off than we were earlier in the season, are we doomed to repeat the same crime? And did we actually do it again with Isiah-Marbury?
OldFan
Posts: 21456
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2003
Member: #446
4/22/2004  4:28 PM
Posted by Nalod:

Nets are finally getting respect in NY after two trips to the finals.

Kenyon does not have to hoot and holler, but thats his game and he is exercising that muscle.

I have never been embarassed over this team until this year. Last year even with chaney they played hard, with dignity, pride and as a unit. I understand they have yet to gel together and unity takes time. But the whining and complaining is bull.

I hated when spree came in and dissed the team, and I hate this docile crap on the floor.

The team can earn respect by defending themselves on the court. Not stupid thuggery, but playing hard and wanting to win.

Take and ass whooping like a man, learn and grow from it and come back next year bigger, faster and stronger.

If Isiah does coach, it should just be for year. THen let his boy aguire do the job, or better yet, let him do it first.

Now I know why they wanted to play detroit so bad! gettng wooped up by cross town rival not cool and bad for business.

The New York press is calling for the end of Knicks as top dog!

All I can say is this day was coming for a long time. Quick fix of players dating all the way back to the Bob Mcadoo-Spencer Haywood days, and with ewing (trading away youth and picks) era would eventually leave them. Im sorry, we don't have much to work with in the off season and Isiah has got to work with this group to get them better. That is the teams short term salvation.

The nets have a nice Euro center coming next year. Even if Kidd ages out in two years, they could still have Kenyan and Jefferson, with perhaps Kristic as a young core to get in Brooklyn.

Again, Detroit, Nets, Indiana, Cleveland are all ahead of the knicks for now, and in the future with developing youth. They will get better also! We need to improve just to duplicate making the playoffs next year.

Our problem predates laydog, Grunfeld, and even checketts! 27 years of false mismanagement and instant gradification.

Question is: while we are better off than we were earlier in the season, are we doomed to repeat the same crime? And did we actually do it again with Isiah-Marbury?

Gotta disagree on the Ewing era. I've been around long enough that I've seen the Knicks win a championship. But I have no complaints about the Ewing era - it was exciting and we were competitive year after year. Coupla coulda shoulda wouldas but that's what makes it interesting. Yeah I wish we had won but as a fan I think you should be happy if you have a contender to root for and we had that for a lot of years with Ewing.
fishmike
Posts: 53829
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
4/22/2004  4:37 PM
echo that... 10 years in a row in the playoffs is impressive. We got there and *advanced* 10 years in a row with Ewing. The problem with that era is we never developed young guys, but in fairness some of the old guys we brought in were pretty freakin good.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
martin
Posts: 76227
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
4/22/2004  5:22 PM
Posted by fishmike:

echo that... 10 years in a row in the playoffs is impressive. We got there and *advanced* 10 years in a row with Ewing. The problem with that era is we never developed young guys, but in fairness some of the old guys we brought in were pretty freakin good.

agreed. Would add that although the Knicks didn't develop any young guys - and this really only effected the team over the past 5 years - I think it was entirely Jordan that stopped the Knicks from getting to the promise land more often.
Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
rojasmas
Posts: 21207
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/25/2004
Member: #639
4/22/2004  10:40 PM
Even Magic Johnson said on TNT last night that Collins was not going for the ball. He might know a little bit more about it than you or me. Sorry Net sympathizers. They replayed the play three times and it ain't a clean foul.
We could be the Dallas Mavs of the East.
OldFan
Posts: 21456
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2003
Member: #446
4/23/2004  2:51 PM
Posted by rojasmas:

Even Magic Johnson said on TNT last night that Collins was not going for the ball. He might know a little bit more about it than you or me. Sorry Net sympathizers. They replayed the play three times and it ain't a clean foul.

Did Magic say the it was a foul unlike any the lakers and celtics ever committed? Did he say it was a foul like he'd never seen in the playoffs before? Did he say Oakley never did the same? Look I'm a Knick fan but complaining about that foul is lame. It was a hard foul to stop a guy from dunking - happens in every playoff series. TT landed badly and that's not good. But that was just a typical "no Layups or dunks foul".
EnySpree
Posts: 44919
Alba Posts: 138
Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397

4/23/2004  6:18 PM
He was clipped out of the air and Collins did not go for the ball.

Yeah Oakley used to cream guys but not like that. If it was a play like that Oakley would have at least put a body on him. Collins didn't even do that. It was a take down.

Geez....this thread starts out with a link to a pic and Martin was nice enough to post the actual picture. What more do you wanna talk about? It was a dirty play.

Jefferson made a dirty play on Marbury too when he didn't even go for the ball....he just jumped his body into Marbury. Jefferson smacked the backboard to let the refs think it was clean. How do you hip check someone in the air and call it a clean play. If Marbury wasn't so solid, he would have been hurt too.

Wake up and see it for what it is....

And the purpose was not to cry about the officiating or the Nets....it's the soul fact the Knicks did nothing at the time to show the Nets they were not playing that bullshyte.

Subscribe to my Podcast https://youtube.com/c/DiehardknicksPodcast https://twitter.com/DiehardknicksPC https://instagram.com/diehardknickspodcast
morebetter
Posts: 20006
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/20/2004
Member: #635
USA
4/24/2004  10:20 PM
In response to the "has v baker played himself out of a contract" i think he may have. lenny is not using him that much and does not seem to have a lot of faith in him. his defense is b.s. and he gets stripped too many times trying to make his post move. I would give him a tryout in training camp to see if his skills are still there because everything about this team this year has been a work in progress.To be fair to him let's see if it is just rust and not faded skills. we need tough big men not charles smith types. he is making a lot of money. i would gamble on him for a serious pay cut. we need guys in their prime to compete with any serious team in our division. the nets are not that skilled of a team they are just much more athletic and that gets them wins over us. the things that isiah is doing in seeking out talent i believe will pay off. you do not need the top names in the nba to be a good team. you need key ingredients. that said i would go for tracy to replace houston keep most of our other guys and drop kurt,shandon,othella, moochie and find those players that are not fitting on their current teams and get them. we will not win the nba championship next year but given a plan for player development and a offensive and defensive plan we can make mucho noise in this pitiful conference. knicks fans have patience.
OldFan
Posts: 21456
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2003
Member: #446
4/25/2004  4:58 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

He was clipped out of the air and Collins did not go for the ball.

Yeah Oakley used to cream guys but not like that. If it was a play like that Oakley would have at least put a body on him. Collins didn't even do that. It was a take down.

Geez....this thread starts out with a link to a pic and Martin was nice enough to post the actual picture. What more do you wanna talk about? It was a dirty play.

Jefferson made a dirty play on Marbury too when he didn't even go for the ball....he just jumped his body into Marbury. Jefferson smacked the backboard to let the refs think it was clean. How do you hip check someone in the air and call it a clean play. If Marbury wasn't so solid, he would have been hurt too.

Wake up and see it for what it is....

And the purpose was not to cry about the officiating or the Nets....it's the soul fact the Knicks did nothing at the time to show the Nets they were not playing that bullshyte.

You have to be more of a Homer then "The Scooter" to say Oakley never hit guys like that. The picture was after the "body" contact. I saw the play and I saw the replay - playoff foul. The Knicks are not bad because they don't foul hard or because they don't retaliate. In his whole career - and yes I saw it all I never once saw Clyde retaliate other then to play better. The Knicks aren't losing because they're not tough enough - they're losing because they're not good enough.
The Day Knick basketball died

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy