yellowboy90 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/sports/2012/11/6547677/knicks-stay-undefeated-thanks-shockingly-large-part-jr-smith

I welcome back JR with open arms (warts and all)

I hated the signing when JR first came here. I re-iterated over and over that we didn't need a whacko messing with our brainiac back court. You can spin how that turned out that any way you want, but the results from that old situation don't lie.

His play on the court changed all that. Threads like these are so schizo. You have people talking about how he carried us when melo was out, was all we had on an extremely thin, old, injured team,

but

he's an a-hole now because he got $25 mil, he threw an elbow, playoffed like sheehit, and got caught partying like any young idiot with millions of dollars. He still didn't shoot 12% from the field for two months.

I'm sure none of all the exemplary citizens posting JR hate here make bad choices. Ever. You'd be tucked in bed everynight during a playoff run in your jammies by 8:30pm, after watching tape for hours, right? Sure you would. Preach it!

I thought JR would be nothing but a back page machine and would be locker room cancer and be gone in a year. He's had his issues, but he's delivered better than what's being ranted about here.

Sheesh.

and you can continue to your exaggerated negative characterization of JR. Nothing I can do to stop you but bring intelligent argument which you haven't even attempted to refute...so, we're kool.

did you quote the right post?

Yeah, were had a bit of good natured back and forth going :)

smackeddog wrote:From Woody's comments, it's pretty clear JR has been given an assurance of starting in return for the contract he signed. Moving him to the starting lineup makes ZERO sense otherwise, plus you're telling me a player who is rehabbing all summer, then gets suspended for drugs, somehow 'earns' a place in the starting lineup?

So unfortunately there's no point in making a good argument for JR's role- it's already been decided. I'm not saying we should have let him walk rather than agree, but lets not kid ourselves that a deal hasn't been made.

Woodson said they (JR and Shump) would compete for the job. Not sure how that equates as an assurance.

smackeddog wrote:From Woody's comments, it's pretty clear JR has been given an assurance of starting in return for the contract he signed. Moving him to the starting lineup makes ZERO sense otherwise, plus you're telling me a player who is rehabbing all summer, then gets suspended for drugs, somehow 'earns' a place in the starting lineup?

So unfortunately there's no point in making a good argument for JR's role- it's already been decided. I'm not saying we should have let him walk rather than agree, but lets not kid ourselves that a deal hasn't been made.

I question this as well. Why was he given any assurances at all after all the disappointment? That's what I don't get. He had no other offers -- he said he never even spoke to another team during FA. It was either us or pack your bags and go back to China..

I went back and tried to look up the video clip I remember seeing of him discussing the timing of the knee surgery related to signing a contract and found the written article instead:

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/01/j-r-smith-admits-delaying-knee-surgery-until-after-he-signed-new-contract-with-knicks/

OK so to be fair, it's not as black and white as I remember -- looks more like the Knicks knew about the knee problem and signed him to the deal anyway (so says JR). Still somehow doesn't seem right though -- if he says he wanted to remain a Knick and never even talked to another team, then who was he fooling by holding off on the surgery? I think what happened here was he held out on EVERYBODY, the Knicks included, and then when no one else but the Knicks had interest, he decided to tell them the deal with the knee and the Knicks accepted the terms. Pisses me off a little to read that if he came clean much earlier, he would've made training camp and would've been available for the start. The Knicks obviously like him enough where they would've re-upped him right from jump, knee and all...He would've been several weeks ahead of his current schedule.

smackeddog wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

smackeddog wrote:From Woody's comments, it's pretty clear JR has been given an assurance of starting in return for the contract he signed. Moving him to the starting lineup makes ZERO sense otherwise, plus you're telling me a player who is rehabbing all summer, then gets suspended for drugs, somehow 'earns' a place in the starting lineup?

So unfortunately there's no point in making a good argument for JR's role- it's already been decided. I'm not saying we should have let him walk rather than agree, but lets not kid ourselves that a deal hasn't been made.

Woodson said they (JR and Shump) would compete for the job. Not sure how that equates as an assurance.

The stuff saying he was done with having JR as a sixth man, and that he was "passed that". It makes no sense given JR's summer.

Exactly. If you read between the lines in what Woody's said recently, he and JR clearly had some dialogue about him graduating to a starting role and Woody's decided to put that out there. I just don't feel that's fair to Shump, man.

gunsnewing wrote:

smackeddog wrote:From Woody's comments, it's pretty clear JR has been given an assurance of starting in return for the contract he signed. Moving him to the starting lineup makes ZERO sense otherwise, plus you're telling me a player who is rehabbing all summer, then gets suspended for drugs, somehow 'earns' a place in the starting lineup?

So unfortunately there's no point in making a good argument for JR's role- it's already been decided. I'm not saying we should have let him walk rather than agree, but lets not kid ourselves that a deal hasn't been made.

Exactly now we know that the disagreements between Grunwald and Dolan were all about. Either the or Dolan wanting Shumpert gone

If anything, probably Dolan. Wasn't he mad at Shump for not participating in the final few SL games? Idiot -- now we're hearing Shump only had knee soreness for a lot of the off-season. Ya think maybe that had something to do with him going easy in SL? Knowing now that he had soreness, I'm surprised they even allowed him to play at all...Just sign the checks and stay the hell outta the way, Jimmy! Go hit the road with the Straight Shot and don't come back!! Happy trails, moron...Shumpert's one of the better homegrown players this organization's had in a long time. God, this guy kills me.

gunsnewing wrote:He shouldn't never play in summer league after acl surgery and I couldn't agree more that Shumpert is the best most complete young hometown knick in a lonnnng time. That's what infuriates me about this whole starting JR thing. This team is a frickin joke man

Well originally it was his choice (sort of). It all started in the off season with Shumps agent saying he was being misused at the 3spot and should be playing the 1 and 2exclusively. That led him to agree to play the summer league to showcase and sharpen up his pg skills. I think Woodson is the one down on him for the most part. Also said Shump wasn't starting in the 1st 2pre-season games because he missed most of training camp.

Dolan may be a tool, but it seems guys here will beleive anything tweated or written about him. I can't see this 3rd year guys still on his rookie contract really being on Dolan's radar.

BRIGGS wrote:Not a thread about being negative towards JR--it means that we do not need him to play 38 minutes and take 17 shots. We need him 100% healthy and then come in and play within the teams new offense which is much more diverse--meaning he will need to take a smaller focus on getting his own shots--and looking for good plays. Last year we DID need him to take shots not his fault--we did NOT have the offensive diversity. We have added a multitude of guys who can score and I think Bargs--to me becomes 1B in the pecking order to Carmelo. JR just needs to fit in take good shots when open and find the open man when he is not play good D and rebound.

Thats very true and has gotten mixed up in all the comments. It is a good thing that he won't be the 2nd option since he's more suited to being part of the support cast. I'm all for competition at the 2between him and Shump because I think competition is good but, I'd rather see JR off the bench because he really solidified that unit. Would like to see him play alongside Tim JR.

JR is a good facilitator. Novak credited him as being the guy that looked for him most and he may very well be just as helpful to Tim JR in the 2nd unit.

The majority of shots should be taken by Melo and Bargs, then guys like Shump and co need to play defense rebound and eat the scraps instead of worrying about touches.