tkf wrote:

sealy wrote:

tkf wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:we're definitely a better team than we were last year. we have a group of defenders in artest, shump, chandler, kmart that can really buckle a team down and the key with that defensive unit is that its a big defensive unit too - going to be hard to score on a unit like that. throw melo in there for some scoring punch and i like that 'lineup d'jour' as earl so eloquently puts it. i like what i see from bargs too. i think him and melo can defenitely play off each other well and i like the chemistry that they showed with one another yesterday, even it is only the first preseason game.

hardaway jr played a nice game yesterday, his 3pt shot looks great for a kid coming out of college and i like his overall style of play, he's going to fit right in with this punch, he might be a real sleeper for us.

all this and i didnt even mention that the biggest thing we do offensively is that WE don't turn the ball over. felton had 0 to's, prigs had 1 and udrih had 2. that's amazing really. we were great at that last year and it looks like we're going to be great again this year with it. get melo/bargs as many scoring opportunities as they can handle.

we don't know if we are better or not... especially after one preseason game vs a boston team with a bunch of new players and without rondo.. come on... we eeked out this win vs that team.. if you are going to use this game to judge the knicks, then you should be worried... I still see the same things.. chucking melo.. bargnani chucking... and not defending.. no rebounding.. the same old issues..

what I did like and always have is Shumpert... the problem is PG... which is why I liked Lin with shumpert, it gave the knicks back court explosiveness and a dynamic we haven't had back there in years..

THJ may be a nice role player down the line as well.. that is good news, but not nearly enough... It is a shame that this franchise doesn't have the brains or patience to do things the right way, because when we do, we can see some good,lasting results... I just fear we are going to eff up the shumpert situation and he will be playing elsewhere.. at which point it will push me further away from this toxic mess in NY...

They will look better just based on the fact that there is more taelnt on this team than last year. Whether it equates to more wins is an unknown, but I doubt they will be chucking as many 3s now and I am happy about that. Curious to see who becomes the leader though and how it will impact accountability after the garbage performances.

Disagree about the problem being the PG, the problem to me is the same as last year - lack of rebounding. Watching teams snag O-board after O-board to keep possessions alive is gonna be aggravating against the big teams and I just hope it doesn't expedite a trade of Shump for help down low. I agree if he gets traded it will make me very disgusted w/ this franchise.

when I say Pg is a problem, I mean it is not a position that has contender worthy play... remember this is a veteran team. we are not a young team, the goal is championship and we are lacking.... I just see too many holes and Pg being one of them..

I usually agree with you but I think Beno is the key. Beno should be more than adequate to run this team.

tkf wrote:

when I say Pg is a problem, I mean it is not a position that has contender worthy play... remember this is a veteran team. we are not a young team, the goal is championship and we are lacking.... I just see too many holes and Pg being one of them..

Our PG players are adequate- that's all you need. Look at the PGs on a lot of championship teams- they aren't great!

I will not be happy if Shumpert is traded

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

when I say Pg is a problem, I mean it is not a position that has contender worthy play... remember this is a veteran team. we are not a young team, the goal is championship and we are lacking.... I just see too many holes and Pg being one of them..

Our PG players are adequate- that's all you need. Look at the PGs on a lot of championship teams- they aren't great!

nope we need a pg who can say "no" to melo and his 35% usage rate and 14% assist rate. bargnani isn't much different. that's the difference between title winners and us-- they have playmaking players at other positions than point guard.

felton doesn't do it so you have to see if udrih can or will or perhaps prigioni.

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

when I say Pg is a problem, I mean it is not a position that has contender worthy play... remember this is a veteran team. we are not a young team, the goal is championship and we are lacking.... I just see too many holes and Pg being one of them..

Our PG players are adequate- that's all you need. Look at the PGs on a lot of championship teams- they aren't great!

NO, BUT THey had other playmakers that served as a PG per say... lebron with the heat, the spurs with parker, who is great...

ChuckBuck wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

when I say Pg is a problem, I mean it is not a position that has contender worthy play... remember this is a veteran team. we are not a young team, the goal is championship and we are lacking.... I just see too many holes and Pg being one of them..

Our PG players are adequate- that's all you need. Look at the PGs on a lot of championship teams- they aren't great!

Yup. Mario Chalmers, past his prime JKidd, Derek Fisher, Rookie Rondo. Only exception is Tony P.

Not a Point Guard era anymore like the 80s and 90s.

those teams had star players who were playmakers.... and lets be honest, the kidd that was with the mavs is better than what we have now.. same can be said of a young rondo..

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

when I say Pg is a problem, I mean it is not a position that has contender worthy play... remember this is a veteran team. we are not a young team, the goal is championship and we are lacking.... I just see too many holes and Pg being one of them..

Our PG players are adequate- that's all you need. Look at the PGs on a lot of championship teams- they aren't great!

Yup. Mario Chalmers, past his prime JKidd, Derek Fisher, Rookie Rondo. Only exception is Tony P.

Not a Point Guard era anymore like the 80s and 90s.

if melo was a decent playmaker then you would only need a so-so point guard, but he isn't so we need a better than so-so point guard.

haha, read my post, you beat me to it, and I didn't even see this post yet....

those teams had playmakers, for instance, wade and lebron with the heat...

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

when I say Pg is a problem, I mean it is not a position that has contender worthy play... remember this is a veteran team. we are not a young team, the goal is championship and we are lacking.... I just see too many holes and Pg being one of them..

Our PG players are adequate- that's all you need. Look at the PGs on a lot of championship teams- they aren't great!

Yup. Mario Chalmers, past his prime JKidd, Derek Fisher, Rookie Rondo. Only exception is Tony P.

Not a Point Guard era anymore like the 80s and 90s.

if melo was a decent playmaker then you would only need a so-so point guard, but he isn't so we need a better than so-so point guard.

How many play makers do the Bulls have besides Rose? Stop the BS about such nonsense that you come up with just because its the Knicks!!! What about the Thunder? You can't just focus flaws and not pay more attention to how the team actually functions overall. This team is going to be a nightmare for other teams. This team has great depth and a solid talent level. Also tho this team isn't full of 2 way players they can defend.

We can't get crazy about the flaws of our top players and ignore the fact that despite those flaws they can and have played some great BB.

there is bs and nonsense and then there are facts:

1) joakim noah is an elite passer among centers at 4 assists per game. an astonishing 17.2%USG and 17.6%AST which is point guard territory

2) deng averages 3 assists per game on 21.5%USG and 13.2%AST for a ratio 1.62:1 which is shooting guard territory

3) hinrich as a shooting guard is also a terrific playmaker from that position

the bulls have superior coaching, putting defense above all else, followed by ball movement. without rose, however, they were exhausted, just like the celtics without rondo. but as with all great teams they exceeded expectations in the playoffs, they overachieved. they played good basketball even without rose.

the knicks? not so much.

tkf wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

when I say Pg is a problem, I mean it is not a position that has contender worthy play... remember this is a veteran team. we are not a young team, the goal is championship and we are lacking.... I just see too many holes and Pg being one of them..

Our PG players are adequate- that's all you need. Look at the PGs on a lot of championship teams- they aren't great!

Yup. Mario Chalmers, past his prime JKidd, Derek Fisher, Rookie Rondo. Only exception is Tony P.

Not a Point Guard era anymore like the 80s and 90s.

those teams had star players who were playmakers.... and lets be honest, the kidd that was with the mavs is better than what we have now.. same can be said of a young rondo..

Kidd was a shell of himself, and only played a few games with the Mavs after that Championship season. Rookie Rondo was no where near where he is now. Rondo was merely a caddy for the Big 3, like what Chalmers was/is.

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

when I say Pg is a problem, I mean it is not a position that has contender worthy play... remember this is a veteran team. we are not a young team, the goal is championship and we are lacking.... I just see too many holes and Pg being one of them..

Our PG players are adequate- that's all you need. Look at the PGs on a lot of championship teams- they aren't great!

Yup. Mario Chalmers, past his prime JKidd, Derek Fisher, Rookie Rondo. Only exception is Tony P.

Not a Point Guard era anymore like the 80s and 90s.

if melo was a decent playmaker then you would only need a so-so point guard, but he isn't so we need a better than so-so point guard.

I forget was Dirk Nowitzki a decent playmaker in 2011? Every stat I looked at says he sucked ass in distributing.

dirk kept the ball moving and he clearly was coached well to anticipate converging doubles in order for the ball to beat the rotators to the open spot. when melo is critiqued for allowing the ball to "stick" you should be thinking about dirk as a point of contrast.

and then there's that nagging efficiency/TS% issue-- dirk that year was an elite 61%TS.

so yes a case can be made for dirk being a playmaker.

Still don't see any stats to support your argument. Who doesn't pass out of a double team? Just pure bias as usual.