nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:good point guards do not defer they orchestrate. it's hard to orchestrate when one of the players is accustomed to a usage rate of 35%

I think this is a very cynical view. This team has added a TON of new weapons and I see no reason why the ball won't be spread around generously this year. We have too many weapons this year for it to be a high usage year for Melo. It's not what i'm seeing from the way they seem to be practicing so far. Melo will get a ton of touches, but so will the other scorers on this team. Just remember that Melo didn't start off taking too many shots. That developed as we lost players and guys wore down.

being cynical would require my being bitter. lets agree i am pessimistic. one wonders if melo can play any differently this year than any other season, especially in a contract year. does he undermine the team and go for big scoring numbers because he feels scoring lots of points is the best way to secure a big contract? or does he transcend his game somehow? any knick fan with a pair of eyes should be able to tell the difference. better shot selection, better ball movement, better defense will help his cause. 58%TS or higher would also be very persuasive.

IronWillGiroud wrote:because this is woody's MO:

his lack of coaching ability means that he has to essentially function as a sycophant to carmelo to keep him happy,

like this: melo gets green light to run roughshod all over the hardwoods, melo is then happy, woody maintains control of locker room,

and to offset his ass-licking of melo, he has to appear to be a tough papa toward guys that are quiet, like beno maybe, and like copeland and novak last year

dk7th wrote:good point guards do not defer they orchestrate. it's hard to orchestrate when one of the players is accustomed to a usage rate of 35%

seriously...would someone ban this dude already?

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:big fan of udrih,

but i'm not sold that woody will give him burn, he might end up as an escape goat like copeland/novak last year,

imo, artest biggest addition overall,

udrih could be huge, but it's on woody.

I don't understand your fear about Woody playing Beno. Why would he hold him back? If Woody's stated plan is not to burn any of his players out, then it would make sense that Beno would get good minutes.

As for the biggest addition it's clearly Bargnani. So far it looks like Woody wants to see how it works starting him. That's a huge piece of the puzzle, since he can give this team what we have been missing since Melo came here, a 2nd option in the starting lineup next to Melo. STAT never really was able to be that co-star for Melo. If this works AB would be the most important pickup. I do think Beno is the sleeper pickup tho. People are seriously underestimating how good he can be for this team. He's capable of exploding in games, which Kidd could never really do.

i could be wrong with my fear,

but i will say that it was disappointing to see woody's behavior toward copeland/novak last year, and bully-like behavior like that doesn't just dissipate in one off-season, it's a pathology and and instrumental part of how woody maintains control of the locker room.

i'm just looking at who is a potential escape goat, and beno has this all over his forehead imo.

not doubting beno's ability at all, i think he can ball

I think you're ascribing too much of a vindictive motive to Woody. Cope was a kid I thought should get more PT, Woody was trying to get thru to Cope about his defense, but I think Woody realizes that he kind of messed up with Cope. I think he realizes that he was a bit too hard on him.

As for Novak, don't forget he got a ton of minutes last year. He just wasn't able to produce as he had the year before. Also it's Novak we're talking about. The guy is a very limited player. I do believe Woody could've run better plays for him tho.

I just don't understand why any of this would have any bearing on how he'd use Beno. Beno is a vet that can be trusted and he's not really limited like Novak. In addition Beno is basically going to be able to give us more than Kidd was able to give late in the year. Most importantly Beno has Championship experience!!! IMO there's no way Woody leaves that on the bench.

Even though I think beno is a nice pickup for us, have you ever wondered why he is so well-traveled, and one place he was a ft starter the team sucked really bad?

I like our signings, but the expectations are as role players, not major contributors and imo if they were major contributors we wouldnt have gotten them for literally nothing more than any team could have.

There are certain players that just don't get the respect. Guys like Luke Ridenour. When you think of them they aren't sexy players. They aren't really fast and don't jump high. They simply know how to play and run a team. When given a chance they produce. Beno is that kind of player. Prigs is that kind of player. Prigs has very unimpressive stats but he wins. We don't need Beno to be a superstar. He just has to keep the ball moving, set guys up and get them in the right places. He just needs to run the PnP and work to get defenses off balance. I think it's just real easy to overlook a PG like him on a bad team, but on a good team with lots of weapons he's what you want. He's not selfish and is thinking pass most of the time. So it has nothing to do with Beno not being a good player. He is the perfect player for a good team.

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:good point guards do not defer they orchestrate. it's hard to orchestrate when one of the players is accustomed to a usage rate of 35%

Lol is there anything you haven't blamed Melo for?

it's a team game.

i don't see the usage rate and assist rate as a chicken or egg thing. it starts with him rather than his reacting to his "supporting cast not stepping up" or being out with injury, as so many try so hard to maintain. occam's razor: he is very limited and narrow minded. as such he is a difficult player to play with let alone build around. he tends to wear down teammates physically and mentally.

you don't blame a problem away you solve it. playoff opponents have been solving melo his entire nba career. why can't his own teams?

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:good point guards do not defer they orchestrate. it's hard to orchestrate when one of the players is accustomed to a usage rate of 35%

Lol is there anything you haven't blamed Melo for?

it's a team game.

i don't see the usage rate and assist rate as a chicken or egg thing. it starts with him rather than his reacting to his "supporting cast not stepping up" or being out with injury, as so many try so hard to maintain. occam's razor: he is very limited and narrow minded. as such he is a difficult player to play with let alone build around. he tends to wear down teammates physically and mentally.

you don't blame a problem away you solve it. playoff opponents have been solving melo his entire nba career. why can't his own teams?

Swishfm3 wrote:

dk7th wrote:good point guards do not defer they orchestrate. it's hard to orchestrate when one of the players is accustomed to a usage rate of 35%

seriously...would someone ban this dude already?

Ha ha the dude is sick. I have him on ignore but when I read you post his popped up.

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:good point guards do not defer they orchestrate. it's hard to orchestrate when one of the players is accustomed to a usage rate of 35%

Lol is there anything you haven't blamed Melo for?

it's a team game.

i don't see the usage rate and assist rate as a chicken or egg thing. it starts with him rather than his reacting to his "supporting cast not stepping up" or being out with injury, as so many try so hard to maintain. occam's razor: he is very limited and narrow minded. as such he is a difficult player to play with let alone build around. he tends to wear down teammates physically and mentally.

you don't blame a problem away you solve it. playoff opponents have been solving melo his entire nba career. why can't his own teams?

You start off saying it's a team game, then go on to put the blame on his shoulders. I'm not saying he's without fault but he is not to blame for everything.

i am saying it's a team game and selfishness destroys or undermines the team game. what else other than selfish players can do that? the best way to measure selfish outside of seeing it with your own eyes is to look at the ratio of usage to assist rate. it's fine if he must have a usage rate of 35% but if his assist rate is below 22% we are talking selfishness and that does not help the team's cause. so if he must remain selfish then at least reduce his touches. you need a good orchestrator to do that. felton won't cut it. two point guards only creates more problems by covering up existing ones.

knickscity wrote:

Papabear wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:Beno was also my pick for most important off season pickup. We need an orchestrator very badly on this team, hopefully he can help with that.

As for Melo's faults regarding putting up bigger numbers during a contract year, I'm not sure he's so calculating. I don't think he thinks that way. He's just a very simple player and I don't think he has the capacity to alter his game one way or another.

Melo is a 2nd or 3rd option on a championship team, end of story.

Papabear Says

So what you are saying the Knicks are not a championship caliber team. So the Knicks are done and the season have not even started yet.

Nobody thinks the Knicks can win a title this year, just enjoy the regular season and maybe a a first round win.

Nothing wrong with just being a decent team.

It's like horse racing, they all would like to win, but some know they dont have a chance in hell....that would be the Knicks.

Man you guys are too much! No one predicted that the Mavs would win the title when they did, but that's why you play the games. No one predicted that the Knicks would be the #2 seed last year either and guess what... they were all wrong!!! We don't know how all of the new pieces will end up working out, but I feel much better about this team than the one we had to start last year. It's not even close. We have everything we had last year and even more.

We originally wanted our big 3 to be Melo, STAT and Tyson, but that didn't really materialize. This Melo, Bargs and Tyson front court could actually work. I hope that the SL of Felton, Shump, Melo, Bargs and Tyson is strong. We really need a good SL that can match up well with other big traditional SL's. And guess what? We still have the ability to put the Small Ball lineup out there as well. This is a much more versatile team.