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Is there any positive upside to Steve Mills?
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EnySpree
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9/27/2013  1:55 PM
We're only as good as our last move. Steve Mills is a step back so it seems but so far it has not trickled dien to the court. The next move is the judgement move. We expect the worse with an abrupt firing of woodson or Shump for manu of the spurs type of trade.

Right now we are good. The Knicks are actually too deep and could stand a big trade without losing the foundation of have and actually get better. Here is hoping for the best and if a nice is made it takes us forward not backward.

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Knixkik
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9/27/2013  1:56 PM
I would consider the upside to be his relationships with everyone in the basketball world (agents, GMs, etc) and the growth of Allan Houston. But other than that, i question is ability to make decisions in the player personnel side of things the way Grunwald or Walsh did. You just have to have experience judging talent, building a roster, etc that i don't believe he has. Luckily Houston is probably getting there and we still have the old Nuggets GM on the payroll.
nixluva
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9/27/2013  2:10 PM
MS wrote:At this point. Why even care.

The Knicks are what they are. Middle of the road, average and will be exiting the first round again. Dolan, does things a certain way. The wrong way, without class or thought.

We didn't need to hire anyone in order to resign Melo. He wants to be the man, he wants to play in NY, he wants his money. He isn't giving up the extra year to sign with anyone. The Lakers have little to offer he's already a major star in this league going to the lakers isn't going to grow his shine.

We can look forward to the same team, with the same problems, exiting every year in the first round while ticket prices go up and decision are made without reason

In the end this is really just window dressing. Dolan is the one common denominator and as long as he's at the top nothing else really matters.

I don't think this team is in bad shape despite Dolan's influence. This team was still a #2 seed last year and if they were healthier in the 2nd rd. I think they could've won and got to the ECF's.
This is not a mediocre team and any fan that takes that attitude is just being negative without being realistic about the facts. 54 wins isn't mediocre. Can this team get further? We will find out this year. After the next 2 seasons we'll see how this management change works out as well.

dk7th
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9/27/2013  2:43 PM
nixluva wrote:
MS wrote:At this point. Why even care.

The Knicks are what they are. Middle of the road, average and will be exiting the first round again. Dolan, does things a certain way. The wrong way, without class or thought.

We didn't need to hire anyone in order to resign Melo. He wants to be the man, he wants to play in NY, he wants his money. He isn't giving up the extra year to sign with anyone. The Lakers have little to offer he's already a major star in this league going to the lakers isn't going to grow his shine.

We can look forward to the same team, with the same problems, exiting every year in the first round while ticket prices go up and decision are made without reason

In the end this is really just window dressing. Dolan is the one common denominator and as long as he's at the top nothing else really matters.

I don't think this team is in bad shape despite Dolan's influence. This team was still a #2 seed last year and if they were healthier in the 2nd rd. I think they could've won and got to the ECF's.
This is not a mediocre team and any fan that takes that attitude is just being negative without being realistic about the facts. 54 wins isn't mediocre. Can this team get further? We will find out this year. After the next 2 seasons we'll see how this management change works out as well.

if you make it to the 2nd round it generally means you are still among the top 8 teams. but considering that the league has way too many teams and half of the teams make the playoffs, where are the knicks in terms of a scale between mediocre and excellent?

54 regular-season wins is not mediocre but the regular-season is the regular-season: a grind but often the opponents are below average.

not so the playoffs.

so far as "mediocrity" it really depends on how well they performed in the first and second round. well the celtics exposed the knicks in the first round and the pacers destroyed the knicks in the second round.

the knicks were a better than mediocre regular-season team, just like the anthony-led nuggets were.

playoffs the knicks were a below average team just like the nuggets were.

if you are a below average team in the playoffs you have no hope of winning a title.

in order to win it all the knicks would need to acquire a better player than anthony and more importantly a player that anthony himself knows is a more valuable player than himself.

i consider anthony much closer to a zero-sum player at the end of the day. he is not capable of leading a team to the conference finals. if he were he would have demonstrated this after 10 years in the league.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
jrodmc
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9/27/2013  3:24 PM
MS wrote:At this point. Why even care.

The Knicks are what they are. Middle of the road, average and will be exiting the first round again. Dolan, does things a certain way. The wrong way, without class or thought.

We didn't need to hire anyone in order to resign Melo. He wants to be the man, he wants to play in NY, he wants his money. He isn't giving up the extra year to sign with anyone. The Lakers have little to offer he's already a major star in this league going to the lakers isn't going to grow his shine.

We can look forward to the same team, with the same problems, exiting every year in the first round while ticket prices go up and decision are made without reason

Or why even post? Why even log in to UK? Why go on living? Did last season even happen? And who cares if it did?

nixluva wrote:In the end this is really just window dressing. Dolan is the one common denominator and as long as he's at the top nothing else really matters.

I don't think this team is in bad shape despite Dolan's influence. This team was still a #2 seed last year and if they were healthier in the 2nd rd. I think they could've won and got to the ECF's.
This is not a mediocre team and any fan that takes that attitude is just being negative without being realistic about the facts. 54 wins isn't mediocre. Can this team get further? We will find out this year. After the next 2 seasons we'll see how this management change works out as well.

I don't see Mills as the first step towards anything good. Mills minus Woody + JrGM H20 + IT ghosting + Dolan is not bringing PJax here at any time for any amount of money or proposal of power. For what? We have no MJ or Kobe and Lebron doesn't need PJax.

And Jimmie seriously gives a shat about Brooklyn? Be real. Here, host the Sophomore All Star game at the Barklays. No wonder Prokerface didn't show up.

IT's on the back pages. Knicks Knicks Knicks. Our stupid owner has got his brand getting attention. For all the wrong reasons again. Maybe this all just makes for really funny blues riffs.

jrodmc
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9/27/2013  3:26 PM
Donnie Walsh thinks this is a great hire.

For some team he doesn't work for anymore.

CrushAlot
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9/27/2013  7:02 PM
jrodmc wrote:Donnie Walsh thinks this is a great hire.

For some team he doesn't work for anymore.

Donnie woke up?
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CrushAlot
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9/27/2013  7:09 PM
Right now I am waiting for the Shump trade rumors to start. Can't see any upside. There were a lot of posters talking about continuity and not looking dysfunctional whenever talk of firing D'Antoni came up. It is pretty hard not to look dysfunctional, and irrational in this situation. Grunwald was sensible, rational, patient and picked his spots with limited resources. The Knicks seemed to be heading in the right direction. Really surprieed that there is any speculation that Steve Mills attracts more free agents then Grunwald. I think state income tax, the chance to win, and playing for a non dysfunctional organization are more important then how a guy looks in a suit or who he hangs out with. Maybe if Mills was recruiting high school sophmores this shtick works.
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arkrud
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9/27/2013  9:55 PM
Steve Mills is perfect bureaucrat. Dolan's bitch. End of the line.
This cannot get any better.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
nixluva
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9/28/2013  12:46 AM
I think too many of us are stuck in the Lebron sweepstakes and not thinking about other targets this team could go after. There will be a full court press and Dolan won't take any chances. The reports about the Knicks pitch being the least impressive with Donnie looking half dead really bothered Dolan. Say what u want but Dolan has pride and he's spent BIG DOLLARS to revamp the Garden. He doesn't like the Nets having big headlines either. Grunwald isn't slick, cool or connected with the "cool kids" at the big agencies.
blkexec
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9/28/2013  1:18 AM
nixluva wrote:I think too many of us are stuck in the Lebron sweepstakes and not thinking about other targets this team could go after. There will be a full court press and Dolan won't take any chances. The reports about the Knicks pitch being the least impressive with Donnie looking half dead really bothered Dolan. Say what u want but Dolan has pride and he's spent BIG DOLLARS to revamp the Garden. He doesn't like the Nets having big headlines either. Grunwald isn't slick, cool or connected with the "cool kids" at the big agencies.

It's a combination of Dollan having a puppet in Mills that he can control. And Dollan taking advantage of Mills NBA connections with high profile players, coaches, agents, etc... Mills wasn't hired for his GM skills. Dollan took a huge risk bringing Mills back....It takes huge balls or slight retardation. I will stay positive and see how this turns out. But I really liked Grunwald....He's just not your typical NY type of front page news. Dollans problem was not the people he brought in, but the amount of power he gives them. I've said this from day one, Isiah should've been a simple scout or talent evaluator. Mills should be the connection guy. Now you need a phil jackson type of basketball mind to put this all together. I just don't see Dollan giving Phil that much power. I could be wrong. People do change! But I personally would've hired Phil Jackson instead of Steve Mills. This tells me that Dollan rather have only yes men around him....Again, please prove me wrong! I would hate to see the Knicks fall below the Nets and must I say....Look like the current 0-3 Giants!!!!!

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EnySpree
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9/28/2013  8:27 AM
A Co worker of mine grew up with Steve Mills. Says he the dude is pretty cool. Used to play ball with him. People like to lie but he is probably the only knick Fan that loves the move.

Btw, if he ain't lying in hitting the dude up for tickets!

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smackeddog
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9/28/2013  10:26 AM
EnySpree wrote:A Co worker of mine grew up with Steve Mills. Says he the dude is pretty cool.

That's all that's required for a GM- phew, glad we hired him!

anrst
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9/28/2013  11:29 AM
It's very disturbing as for what it says about Dolan, but here's the most positive spin i can come up with:

Grunwald was good. Not great. He did some nice things, and also some dumb things. We lost a competent GM, but not an outstanding one.

While Mills is not experienced and has a bad track record in the MSG organization, it's possible he can just get lucky, and stumble into some nice moves.

I believe the team we have now is better than last year, so all that Mills has to do is not F it up too much, at least for this year. In the near term, we should be unscathed by this.

(But if they trade Shumpert, I'm Gonna be SOOO F'ING PISSED, as much as i was when we dealt Camby and Nene for McDyss)

EnySpree
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9/28/2013  6:15 PM
smackeddog wrote:
EnySpree wrote:A Co worker of mine grew up with Steve Mills. Says he the dude is pretty cool.

That's all that's required for a GM- phew, glad we hired him!

That's why Dolan hired him lol. He's supposed to be good at building relationships and attracting talent. Just a big lol.

The whole fan base is expecting the worse. Dolan is a moron

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anrst
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9/28/2013  7:05 PM
i don't get this whole narrative that you gotta have a GM who is looked at as charismatic and cool by free agents. free agents are attracted to teams b/c of the players on the roster and the city where they play. it's not about wanting to be boys with the gm.
dk7th
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9/28/2013  7:14 PM
anrst wrote:i don't get this whole narrative that you gotta have a GM who is looked at as charismatic and cool by free agents. free agents are attracted to teams b/c of the players on the roster and the city where they play. it's not about wanting to be boys with the gm.

this may indeed be the new normal. truly sickening

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
CrushAlot
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9/28/2013  7:38 PM
anrst wrote:i don't get this whole narrative that you gotta have a GM who is looked at as charismatic and cool by free agents. free agents are attracted to teams b/c of the players on the roster and the city where they play. it's not about wanting to be boys with the gm.
Exactly and it didn't work when they brought in a coach that was friendly with everybody. He had to have a reconciliation meeting so the Knicks could sign one 'marquee' free agent.
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markvmc
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9/28/2013  8:44 PM
MS wrote:At this point. Why even care.

The Knicks are what they are. Middle of the road, average and will be exiting the first round again. Dolan, does things a certain way. The wrong way, without class or thought.

Sad to say, but after following this team through all the down years, this is exactly where I am right now.

Is there any positive upside to Steve Mills?

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