DurzoBlint wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:We shouldn't have signed Amare to more than a 3 month contract!

Very good point Bonn though I would have gone as low as 2years with a team for a 3rd. If Walsh was going to sign him for more than 2years, he should have offered Amare a contract with incentives that require him to play a certain amount of games. GM's typically go this route with injury prone players. Not saying Amare would have accepted but, with his history of injuries, it was an injustice to the franchise not try to protect itself. Walsh wasn't as good as some made him out to be. Seems like he had no plan be after losing out on LBJ.

I would have rather suffered though another mediocre year with Lee than have Amare for just one year. It might have cost us Melo but, the future wouldn't be so bleak. Last season I laughed when people called this a championship team. I expected to get past the 1st round, hoped to get to the conference finals but, Indian was a better team and deserved to win. It wasn't all on Melo, but as a team, few people produced in the 2nd round.

Papabear wrote:

nixluva wrote:I think they were close last year but when that 2nd knee needed work it really was at the worst time. Just far enough in the season to put his return well into the playoffs rather than before the playoffs so he could get rehabbed and back to full form. He was never able to make that full transition.

but note that no one said he couldn't play after he returned he was moving well as he did before the 2nd knee surgery. Both of them weren't major surgeries. It wasn't an ACL or another Micro Fracture surgery. Many NBA players eventually have to have a knee cleaned out after years of hard playing. It's not a career ending issue. We have to hope that not being active this summer, plus no pre season pounding will allow his body to heal more fully. They had him doing pool work this time and I think there's a chance this approach can work. It's not that hard to imagine. Doctors recommend low impact training for old guys like me. Think about it. I can still play at 48 yrs old, if I don't push it too long. So I just go for short spurts with my sons. However, if I was to go hard and long I would eventually have some real problems with my knees. I don't do high impact exercise and it really makes a difference. I would assume the same for STAT who is 30. No bac2bacs, limited minutes and limited practice should all help. We'll see.

Papabear Says

I agree but I also think that we should not make Amare's game a priority. We need to get the player who we think will be in good shape in the playoffs the most playing time and if Amare can contribute so be it but I wouldn't count on it. I believe that there are things about Amare that the Knicks brass ain't telling us.

I have been wondering about that myself Pap.

Bonn1997 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:We shouldn't have signed Amare to more than a 3 month contract!

Very good point Bonn though I would have gone as low as 2years with a team for a 3rd. If Walsh was going to sign him for more than 2years, he should have offered Amare a contract with incentives that require him to play a certain amount of games. GM's typically go this route with injury prone players. Not saying Amare would have accepted but, with his history of injuries, it was an injustice to the franchise not try to protect itself. Walsh wasn't as good as some made him out to be. Seems like he had no plan be after losing out on LBJ.

I would have rather suffered though another mediocre year with Lee than have Amare for just one year. It might have cost us Melo but, the future wouldn't be so bleak. Last season I laughed when people called this a championship team. I expected to get past the 1st round, hoped to get to the conference finals but, Indian was a better team and deserved to win. It wasn't all on Melo, but as a team, few people produced in the 2nd round.

OK, but note that I said 3 month, not 3 year.

hahaha, you DA MAN BONN :)

DurzoBlint wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

nixluva wrote:When we traded for Amar'e he had just come off an 82 game season about 23/9 in about 35 mpg. His 1st year in NY he was 78 games 25/8 but about 37 mpg. We didn't realize it was fools gold as MDA wore him out. I almost can't blame him tho considering all the losing we had done before finally adding an All Star and actually having a winning record for a change. Coaches get so desperate to win that they almost don't care about the well being of the players. MDA isn't the only one to do this as some seem to think.

Amar'e missing playoff games in his 1st 2 years wasn't a knee thing it was a freak tweak of his back on a dunk attempt and cutting his hand. When he was healthy he showed just how good he could be and he pushed himself to come back in the playoffs despite the back pain.

Amar'e stats in playoff series:
gm 1 vs BOS - 28/11
tweaks back
gm 2 4/5
gm 3 7/3
gm 4 19/12

Then in his 2nd season he played in 47 of the 66 lockout shortened season games. He played in 4 of the 5 playoff games and was actually pretty good in 4 of those games.

gm 1 vs MIA - 9/5
gm 2 18/7
gm 3 out cut hand
gm 4 20/10
gm 5 14/4

This last playoff was the only time he was really hampered by his knee problems. If he had more time to get back in game shape he might have actually been helpful. I think as fans we tend to overstate the failings of Amar'e. He's had some crazy bad luck and some stupid mistakes. If he can finally be healthy going into a playoff series this time, we may yet see him contribute to a playoff series win. I wouldn't count him out. It's up to Woody to find a way to keep him healthy this time. I think they're taking the right approach and hopefully it works.

You raise some pretty good points but was there that significant a difference in his usage between his last season with Phoenix and his first year with us? And yes, MDA may have worn him out in year 1 of his contract but what about year 2 and 3? I think it was pretty clear then and very apparent now that Amar'e was not going to be a good long term investment but was necessary to save face after the LeBron debacle. The biggest mistake we made wasn't signing him; it was the decision to backload his contract and/or not have a team option involved.

hahaha I made that point here more than once like 2weeks ago. Walsh should have know his history and protected the franchise.

An equally big mistake was wasting the amnesty, Grunwald did a pretty terrible job in protecting the franchise by throwing away our amnesty clause

smackeddog wrote:Don't forget, Walsh wanted to sign Amar'e AND Joe Johnson! Would have turned out awful!

For all the people obsessed with it, the getting maximum cap space to sign mythical FA's strategy is a really risky strategy that is more likely to lead to you either- failing to land anybody, or failing to land anybody then panicking and overpaying someone. As I doubt Dolan would ever take the PR hit of not signing anyone, and we won't have our pick that year, we'll end up overpaying whoever is left.

The smart thing would be to take a few years to use that cap space to get picks in exchange for a bad contract, then take another shot at it.

Or you could try signing some reasonable bargains, though Dallas tried that last season and just ended up being a mediocre pick.

I prefer old fashioned gradual rebuilds, rather than this recent trend of going for the home run.

We traded for Melo. Would Johnson-Amare-Melo trio been so awful?

Nyets got Johnson for nothing in hindsight. Bottom line was Joe did not get, or could not get max money from us like he did in ATL.

Maybe at a lower price and the "Lure" of NY is what walsh was looking at. Maybe when Donnie got wind of what Joe was asking, and what ATL was going to pay he passed.

I don't "blame" walsh for things that did not happen.

Melo has proven to be a pretty durable player and that has made him worth the money. Dolan had to get him to carry the franchise.
Not to championship level, but at the gate.

This is the knicks, love or hate them for what they do. Change the characters and the story is the same. The insanity persists because of Dolan.

Im very excited for the upcoming season. NY basketball will be great because we have two interesting teams that should battle for the division crown!!!

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Don't forget, Walsh wanted to sign Amar'e AND Joe Johnson! Would have turned out awful!

For all the people obsessed with it, the getting maximum cap space to sign mythical FA's strategy is a really risky strategy that is more likely to lead to you either- failing to land anybody, or failing to land anybody then panicking and overpaying someone. As I doubt Dolan would ever take the PR hit of not signing anyone, and we won't have our pick that year, we'll end up overpaying whoever is left.

The smart thing would be to take a few years to use that cap space to get picks in exchange for a bad contract, then take another shot at it.

Or you could try signing some reasonable bargains, though Dallas tried that last season and just ended up being a mediocre pick.

I prefer old fashioned gradual rebuilds, rather than this recent trend of going for the home run.

We traded for Melo. Would Johnson-Amare-Melo trio been so awful?

Nyets got Johnson for nothing in hindsight. Bottom line was Joe did not get, or could not get max money from us like he did in ATL.

Maybe at a lower price and the "Lure" of NY is what walsh was looking at. Maybe when Donnie got wind of what Joe was asking, and what ATL was going to pay he passed.

I don't "blame" walsh for things that did not happen.

Melo has proven to be a pretty durable player and that has made him worth the money. Dolan had to get him to carry the franchise.
Not to championship level, but at the gate.

This is the knicks, love or hate them for what they do. Change the characters and the story is the same. The insanity persists because of Dolan.

Im very excited for the upcoming season. NY basketball will be great because we have two interesting teams that should battle for the division crown!!!

Ha, hard to believe it was a year ago that we were arguing about you supporting the Nets and posting about them! I'm genuinely curious- does the fact that Paul Pierce and KG are now on their roster put you off following them, make you want to follow them more, or have no effect?

I'm excited (and nervous) about this upcoming season too. I get what you're saying, but we would have signed JJ at as near max as we could have gotten. As Amar'e knees would unfortunately dissolve, we'd of been stuck with a team of Melo, JJ and no center (we couldn't of sign Tyson). That team would have been pretty damn bad! Plus our cap situation would be bad- 3 max contracts in the 20mil range.

To reconstruct the last few years is beyond my capcity and I really don't care that much. My point is I don't get on execs for moves they did not make. We don't know how serious those things get. Maybe a sign and trade was in the works? Like we courted Brian Grant or Grant Hill back in the day. WE had no room to sign them, but they were paraded around as if we did. In theory, tyson is not a good fit with Melo and Amare but thats really not important either anymore. Pehraps Joe Johnson could have been traded as he was in the ATL, one never knows! Sometimes deals take a team on a whole other path.

The Nyet Arguement was really more of others peceiption that I turned. I was excited the team moved and thought the rebranding was brilliant. Perhaps I admired it as a business and Nalod was very correct as the teams valuation went thru the roof!!! Does that translate to success on the court? 49 wins for them was big improvement. Does Nalod agree with Rick Barry (a net once upon a time!!!) that it was a daring move to hire Kidd instead of a retread (like we do)??? We'll see, but its interesting!

Good question about KG and Pierce!!! I hated them as celtics. Do I see them in a different light in Brooklyn? Maybe. Is that cool? NOt likely but I was not much in love with the punk Melo and his antics, in particular the chicken Shyt move he pulled with the brawl in NY back in the isiah era. So I let the guy win me over on the court. So the villian wears a knick uniform. KG as he has aged, I gave great respect for his game and professionalism. He is nuts. So was Rashweed. But he won me over on the court. Pierce is a goofball drama queen who has killed us. Not evil but as a foe, hated him. We accepted Spree once upon a time. Knicks have a history of getting cast offs and undesireables. Marbury, Zbo, Francis...... Maybe we are hypocrites to slam others for doing the same.

BUt we talking Nyets, not knicks!!!! Ok, I accept the Nets as a NY basketball team. I always root for a NY team before others. Always. As many of you know, I went to a lot of ABA Net games back in the day so thats my DNA thing. Its there. I like the core of BroPez and Deron and never disliked Joe Johnson for any reason, so why hate on him now? Cuz he makes too much money? AK47 is a player I like watching and on that team could be the most important addition. A glue guy!!!!

Nets gave up a lot to get those old guys, but whose to judge? A knick fan? We give up lots as well. How can we be critical of their spending when ours has been an epic failure at times. Epic.

So really how can I hate an owner who over spends like Prokhorov has when We got Dolan?

Nets did not capture my heart last year as the knicks remain no. 1.

Would I root for the Nets to win a series against the Heat? Bulls? Indy? Hell yeah. I would love to see a NY conf. final!!!! That would be exciting! I'll root for the knicks! If nets win, I root for a champion in NY.

Rather the trophy be in NY than in Los Angeles, or San Fran, or in Texas!

Nets vs. Rockets in finals? Who do you root for?

DurzoBlint wrote:^will hate on them no matter who they play for. Pierce for tearing my heart out a couple of times and Garnette for just being a huge ass

I understand. LIke I said, to accept melo I had to make my own concessions as we did with Kidd, rashweed, Marbury, spree, and others.

I get it, and in another time and place I'd feel the same as you.

BTW, I am very excited about the upcoming season and see how all the "question marks" fall into place. I like the POTENTIAL of Bargnani and the progress that Shump can make.

THe Nets on paper have great potential and should be an interesting team. They are big, experienced, old, but very very deep!!

I would expect they, like the knicks will pace themselves for a deeper run in the playoffs.