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Knixkik
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8/27/2013  9:59 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/27/2013  10:09 AM
NardDogNation wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
callmened wrote:i always thought of Melo as a McGrady 2.0...gifted scorer but nothing else...not a great leader of men...a solid #2 on a great team

I too view them in the same light, but have a slightly different take. Melo is Tmac with better luck with health. But both players are great number 1 options, but have lacked the right number 2 (or 1B option.) Tmac had Yao but not for long enough during his prime. When i consider Tmac and Melo #1 options, i am referring to being the top player on a winning team, as well as leading scorer. But a very specific second option is needed, such as Pippen, Westbrook, Wade, or one of the many other historical number 2 options on successful teams.

Not to deter from the conversation but I think the bottom is going to fall out from Melo sooner rather than later. He has gone without help for too long and plays too physical a game to stay healthy in the future. It is already starting to show; didn't he have knee surgery on both knees and on his elbow last offseason? This season it was only the shoulder fortunately but he is getting too injuried too frequently.

Injuries have not slowed him down once recovered. He was more dominant than ever last season when healthy. While he does play a physical game, its more important to note that he does not rely on athletic ability to play his game, similar to players such as wade, etc who are more apt to decline sooner once they hit 30 and the run/jump abilities take a hit. Players like Melo will typically age better. Strength and shooting don't decline as rapidly as players who dominate by being freak athletes. He will sustain injuries because of the hits, but as long as they aren't major they shouldn't affect him anytime soon.

Allan Houston was not an athletic freak either but injuries prevented him from even stepping onto the court. Houston did not have to deal with half the injuries/kniks that Melo has to. You know I love Melo's game but these issues make me skeptical of him being a long term player for us.

What are you talking about? Houston had a career-ending knee injury. He is not comparable to Melo whatsoever. Melo has not had an injury like that. The only reason to be concerned is if for some reason you think Melo will also get a career ending injury, which i'm not sure why you would think that.
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NYY1NYK2
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8/27/2013  10:13 AM
Ppl talk so much shyt about melo, but if he demands a trade or gets injured, we will suck for yrs to come, so stfu already
tkf
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8/27/2013  10:16 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/27/2013  10:17 AM
NYY1NYK2 wrote:Ppl talk so much shyt about melo, but if he demands a trade or gets injured, we will suck for yrs to come, so stfu already

THAT IS so untrue.. get in a good GM with a plan, send dolan away and I guarantee you we will not suck for years to come... the thing is, you guys are just content with not sucking, but never having a chance to win a title.. i want to be like the spurs, lakers, etc.. one way to get there is to develop a culture, a way of doing business that will put you in position to be great every year......

if carmelo leaves, it will open the door for the knicks to really build a true contender... our current situation is set up for 3 things:

1) get carmelo paid
2) push his wife's struggling career
3) win enough games so dolan can keep selling his fools gold..

that's it...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Knixkik
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8/27/2013  10:23 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/27/2013  10:23 AM
tkf wrote:
NYY1NYK2 wrote:Ppl talk so much shyt about melo, but if he demands a trade or gets injured, we will suck for yrs to come, so stfu already

THAT IS so untrue.. get in a good GM with a plan, send dolan away and I guarantee you we will not suck for years to come... the thing is, you guys are just content with not sucking, but never having a chance to win a title.. i want to be like the spurs, lakers, etc.. one way to get there is to develop a culture, a way of doing business that will put you in position to be great every year......

if carmelo leaves, it will open the door for the knicks to really build a true contender... our current situation is set up for 3 things:

1) get carmelo paid
2) push his wife's struggling career
3) win enough games so dolan can keep selling his fools gold..

that's it...

The GM has been proving to be good and proving he does have a plan. Your problem is the plan includes Melo, therefore it is not a good GM or a good plan. The Dolan issue is separate, but you can't just "send Dolan away." "Culture" sounds good in theory, but these teams culture exists because of their stars. Yes having Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant etc makes the coaches, GMs, and culture look better and function better, i agree. Thats why they are all-time greats.
NYY1NYK2
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8/27/2013  10:41 AM
winning "culture" starts from the top and trickles down
lakers Management gets what it needs, and adjust accordingly
Mavs owner gets what the team needa and stays out the way
yankees former "BOSS" got what the team needed

DOlan is a douche bag, every season there dolan drama. whether its wrath against his own player or messing up trades or listening to isaiah.
Personally, i think you go out and get a coach that makes the team play his way, not play melos way. I personally dont like iso-melo, or iso joe johnson. ball movement wins games.
See "popovich-ball"

But if we make moves like camby for 3 draft picks
J-kidd on a 3yr contract at the age of 39
we will never move forward. The league is getting younger and faster, we need to do that too
Red1976
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8/27/2013  10:43 AM
DurzoBlint wrote:seems like every thread evolves ... or devolves into a Melo bash thread. Can we have a moratorium on Melo mentions when the thread has NOTHING to do with him. Not an uber-Melo fan but, this shyt is way past ridiculous.

+1
smackeddog
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8/27/2013  10:52 AM
Red1976 wrote:
DurzoBlint wrote:seems like every thread evolves ... or devolves into a Melo bash thread. Can we have a moratorium on Melo mentions when the thread has NOTHING to do with him. Not an uber-Melo fan but, this shyt is way past ridiculous.

+1

Yup- at this point do the main culprits actually think anyone's going to change their minds? Beyond tiresome.

It's a shame because when I read the news, I wanted to have a debate about who's better Melo or TMac, but I knew it would just turn into the usual crap.
Markji
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8/27/2013  10:58 AM
Red1976 wrote:
DurzoBlint wrote:seems like every thread evolves ... or devolves into a Melo bash thread. Can we have a moratorium on Melo mentions when the thread has NOTHING to do with him. Not an uber-Melo fan but, this shyt is way past ridiculous.

+1


+2
I'm glad we have Melo.

Give credit where credit is due. T-Mac was a great player. A shame injuries hampered his career.

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
Knixkik
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8/27/2013  11:06 AM
Markji wrote:
Red1976 wrote:
DurzoBlint wrote:seems like every thread evolves ... or devolves into a Melo bash thread. Can we have a moratorium on Melo mentions when the thread has NOTHING to do with him. Not an uber-Melo fan but, this shyt is way past ridiculous.

+1


+2
I'm glad we have Melo.

Give credit where credit is due. T-Mac was a great player. A shame injuries hampered his career.

+3
tkf
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8/27/2013  11:52 AM
Knixkik wrote:
tkf wrote:
NYY1NYK2 wrote:Ppl talk so much shyt about melo, but if he demands a trade or gets injured, we will suck for yrs to come, so stfu already

THAT IS so untrue.. get in a good GM with a plan, send dolan away and I guarantee you we will not suck for years to come... the thing is, you guys are just content with not sucking, but never having a chance to win a title.. i want to be like the spurs, lakers, etc.. one way to get there is to develop a culture, a way of doing business that will put you in position to be great every year......

if carmelo leaves, it will open the door for the knicks to really build a true contender... our current situation is set up for 3 things:

1) get carmelo paid
2) push his wife's struggling career
3) win enough games so dolan can keep selling his fools gold..

that's it...

The GM has been proving to be good and proving he does have a plan. Your problem is the plan includes Melo, therefore it is not a good GM or a good plan. The Dolan issue is separate, but you can't just "send Dolan away." "Culture" sounds good in theory, but these teams culture exists because of their stars. Yes having Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant etc makes the coaches, GMs, and culture look better and function better, i agree. Thats why they are all-time greats.

MELO AS the focal point and salary makes for a bad plan.. that is how I feel...

It would be great to have a Tim Duncan, or Dirk, Or lebron or wade.. we don't... but those gems can be found, good management finds them and then develops them.. the pacers are on path with paul george, again, as we both agree it seems, it starts up top..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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8/27/2013  12:05 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/27/2013  12:10 PM
NYY1NYK2 wrote:winning "culture" starts from the top and trickles down
lakers Management gets what it needs, and adjust accordingly
Mavs owner gets what the team needa and stays out the way
yankees former "BOSS" got what the team needed

DOlan is a douche bag, every season there dolan drama. whether its wrath against his own player or messing up trades or listening to isaiah.
Personally, i think you go out and get a coach that makes the team play his way, not play melos way. I personally dont like iso-melo, or iso joe johnson. ball movement wins games.
See "popovich-ball"

But if we make moves like camby for 3 draft picks
J-kidd on a 3yr contract at the age of 39
we will never move forward. The league is getting younger and faster, we need to do that too

I agree with you, but we did have a coach that tried to make carmelo play his way and not only that, it was proven with that same coach on the olympic team, carmelo as often noted by most of the carmelo fans, played very well in the olympics.. Honestly I think that had to do with being a smaller fish in a bigger pond and he had no choice but to fall back to guys like lebron, kobe, wade, etc.. on the knicks, he defied dantoni.... but that is what happens when the culture is rotten.. I was a fan of jamal crawford and I have been a huge proponent of bring jamal off the bench when he was with the knicks.. but crawford never wanted that, and out of his own mouth he felt he shouldn't come off the bench because he was the best option.. again, that happens when there is little structure from top to bottom.. and I don't think crawford was a bad guy, just a young guy at the time in a dysfunctional organization.. look at jamal now, he has carved out a niche as one of the best 6th men in the league..

Building around carmelo is a mistake, especially with this organization.. it is bringing in flawed players to be the face of a a dysfunctional franchise.. that is lose-lose....

It has to change, and while I am not a carmelo fan at all and want him gone, he is just part of the problem, a huge part, but.. not the problem itself......

Back to T-mac, when he was here a few years ago, I thought he was pretty decent and honestly I rather have that T-mac on this team over bargnani, artest, etc..... he was another guy, although diminished in ability that still would have just enough pull on the court to take the ball out of carmelo's hand and actually run an offense.... and you could trust him with the ball...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
smackeddog
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8/27/2013  12:32 PM
tkf wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
tkf wrote:
NYY1NYK2 wrote:Ppl talk so much shyt about melo, but if he demands a trade or gets injured, we will suck for yrs to come, so stfu already

THAT IS so untrue.. get in a good GM with a plan, send dolan away and I guarantee you we will not suck for years to come... the thing is, you guys are just content with not sucking, but never having a chance to win a title.. i want to be like the spurs, lakers, etc.. one way to get there is to develop a culture, a way of doing business that will put you in position to be great every year......

if carmelo leaves, it will open the door for the knicks to really build a true contender... our current situation is set up for 3 things:

1) get carmelo paid
2) push his wife's struggling career
3) win enough games so dolan can keep selling his fools gold..

that's it...

The GM has been proving to be good and proving he does have a plan. Your problem is the plan includes Melo, therefore it is not a good GM or a good plan. The Dolan issue is separate, but you can't just "send Dolan away." "Culture" sounds good in theory, but these teams culture exists because of their stars. Yes having Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant etc makes the coaches, GMs, and culture look better and function better, i agree. Thats why they are all-time greats.

MELO AS the focal point and salary makes for a bad plan.. that is how I feel...

It would be great to have a Tim Duncan, or Dirk, Or lebron or wade.. we don't... but those gems can be found, good management finds them and then develops them.. the pacers are on path with paul george, again, as we both agree it seems, it starts up top..

Wait a minute- I thought you liked Melo?
dk7th
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8/27/2013  1:35 PM
smackeddog wrote:
tkf wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
tkf wrote:
NYY1NYK2 wrote:Ppl talk so much shyt about melo, but if he demands a trade or gets injured, we will suck for yrs to come, so stfu already

THAT IS so untrue.. get in a good GM with a plan, send dolan away and I guarantee you we will not suck for years to come... the thing is, you guys are just content with not sucking, but never having a chance to win a title.. i want to be like the spurs, lakers, etc.. one way to get there is to develop a culture, a way of doing business that will put you in position to be great every year......

if carmelo leaves, it will open the door for the knicks to really build a true contender... our current situation is set up for 3 things:

1) get carmelo paid
2) push his wife's struggling career
3) win enough games so dolan can keep selling his fools gold..

that's it...

The GM has been proving to be good and proving he does have a plan. Your problem is the plan includes Melo, therefore it is not a good GM or a good plan. The Dolan issue is separate, but you can't just "send Dolan away." "Culture" sounds good in theory, but these teams culture exists because of their stars. Yes having Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant etc makes the coaches, GMs, and culture look better and function better, i agree. Thats why they are all-time greats.

MELO AS the focal point and salary makes for a bad plan.. that is how I feel...

It would be great to have a Tim Duncan, or Dirk, Or lebron or wade.. we don't... but those gems can be found, good management finds them and then develops them.. the pacers are on path with paul george, again, as we both agree it seems, it starts up top..

Wait a minute- I thought you liked Melo?


melo would have been okay coming as a free agent for just cash and not assuming he would be the main guy. in that context he may have become "likable."

but he didn't... so he isn't.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
ramtour420
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8/27/2013  3:18 PM
dk7th wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
tkf wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
tkf wrote:
NYY1NYK2 wrote:Ppl talk so much shyt about melo, but if he demands a trade or gets injured, we will suck for yrs to come, so stfu already

THAT IS so untrue.. get in a good GM with a plan, send dolan away and I guarantee you we will not suck for years to come... the thing is, you guys are just content with not sucking, but never having a chance to win a title.. i want to be like the spurs, lakers, etc.. one way to get there is to develop a culture, a way of doing business that will put you in position to be great every year......

if carmelo leaves, it will open the door for the knicks to really build a true contender... our current situation is set up for 3 things:

1) get carmelo paid
2) push his wife's struggling career
3) win enough games so dolan can keep selling his fools gold..

that's it...

The GM has been proving to be good and proving he does have a plan. Your problem is the plan includes Melo, therefore it is not a good GM or a good plan. The Dolan issue is separate, but you can't just "send Dolan away." "Culture" sounds good in theory, but these teams culture exists because of their stars. Yes having Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant etc makes the coaches, GMs, and culture look better and function better, i agree. Thats why they are all-time greats.

MELO AS the focal point and salary makes for a bad plan.. that is how I feel...

It would be great to have a Tim Duncan, or Dirk, Or lebron or wade.. we don't... but those gems can be found, good management finds them and then develops them.. the pacers are on path with paul george, again, as we both agree it seems, it starts up top..

Wait a minute- I thought you liked Melo?


melo would have been okay coming as a free agent for just cash and not assuming he would be the main guy. in that context he may have become "likable."

but he didn't... so he isn't.

You lost me again, is it all then Dolan's fault or Melo's ?

Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
MaTT4281
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8/27/2013  5:32 PM
On an unrelated topic, I think I read somewhere that Tracy McGrady retired...


"Once a Knick, always a Knick."*

*Offer not valid if tenure is less than 3 months
dk7th
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8/27/2013  7:19 PM
ramtour420 wrote:
dk7th wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
tkf wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
tkf wrote:
NYY1NYK2 wrote:Ppl talk so much shyt about melo, but if he demands a trade or gets injured, we will suck for yrs to come, so stfu already

THAT IS so untrue.. get in a good GM with a plan, send dolan away and I guarantee you we will not suck for years to come... the thing is, you guys are just content with not sucking, but never having a chance to win a title.. i want to be like the spurs, lakers, etc.. one way to get there is to develop a culture, a way of doing business that will put you in position to be great every year......

if carmelo leaves, it will open the door for the knicks to really build a true contender... our current situation is set up for 3 things:

1) get carmelo paid
2) push his wife's struggling career
3) win enough games so dolan can keep selling his fools gold..

that's it...

The GM has been proving to be good and proving he does have a plan. Your problem is the plan includes Melo, therefore it is not a good GM or a good plan. The Dolan issue is separate, but you can't just "send Dolan away." "Culture" sounds good in theory, but these teams culture exists because of their stars. Yes having Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant etc makes the coaches, GMs, and culture look better and function better, i agree. Thats why they are all-time greats.

MELO AS the focal point and salary makes for a bad plan.. that is how I feel...

It would be great to have a Tim Duncan, or Dirk, Or lebron or wade.. we don't... but those gems can be found, good management finds them and then develops them.. the pacers are on path with paul george, again, as we both agree it seems, it starts up top..

Wait a minute- I thought you liked Melo?


melo would have been okay coming as a free agent for just cash and not assuming he would be the main guy. in that context he may have become "likable."

but he didn't... so he isn't.

You lost me again, is it all then Dolan's fault or Melo's ?

they are attached at the hip on this one, siamese twins commercially and psychologically. they are a perfect for each other.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
CrushAlot
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8/27/2013  8:49 PM
dk7th wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
tkf wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
tkf wrote:
NYY1NYK2 wrote:Ppl talk so much shyt about melo, but if he demands a trade or gets injured, we will suck for yrs to come, so stfu already

THAT IS so untrue.. get in a good GM with a plan, send dolan away and I guarantee you we will not suck for years to come... the thing is, you guys are just content with not sucking, but never having a chance to win a title.. i want to be like the spurs, lakers, etc.. one way to get there is to develop a culture, a way of doing business that will put you in position to be great every year......

if carmelo leaves, it will open the door for the knicks to really build a true contender... our current situation is set up for 3 things:

1) get carmelo paid
2) push his wife's struggling career
3) win enough games so dolan can keep selling his fools gold..

that's it...

The GM has been proving to be good and proving he does have a plan. Your problem is the plan includes Melo, therefore it is not a good GM or a good plan. The Dolan issue is separate, but you can't just "send Dolan away." "Culture" sounds good in theory, but these teams culture exists because of their stars. Yes having Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant etc makes the coaches, GMs, and culture look better and function better, i agree. Thats why they are all-time greats.

MELO AS the focal point and salary makes for a bad plan.. that is how I feel...

It would be great to have a Tim Duncan, or Dirk, Or lebron or wade.. we don't... but those gems can be found, good management finds them and then develops them.. the pacers are on path with paul george, again, as we both agree it seems, it starts up top..

Wait a minute- I thought you liked Melo?


melo would have been okay coming as a free agent for just cash and not assuming he would be the main guy. in that context he may have become "likable."

but he didn't... so he isn't.

Ujiri was moving him and not waiting to get nothing for him. He either got moved to the Knicks or somewhere else.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
dk7th
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8/27/2013  9:00 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
tkf wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
tkf wrote:
NYY1NYK2 wrote:Ppl talk so much shyt about melo, but if he demands a trade or gets injured, we will suck for yrs to come, so stfu already

THAT IS so untrue.. get in a good GM with a plan, send dolan away and I guarantee you we will not suck for years to come... the thing is, you guys are just content with not sucking, but never having a chance to win a title.. i want to be like the spurs, lakers, etc.. one way to get there is to develop a culture, a way of doing business that will put you in position to be great every year......

if carmelo leaves, it will open the door for the knicks to really build a true contender... our current situation is set up for 3 things:

1) get carmelo paid
2) push his wife's struggling career
3) win enough games so dolan can keep selling his fools gold..

that's it...

The GM has been proving to be good and proving he does have a plan. Your problem is the plan includes Melo, therefore it is not a good GM or a good plan. The Dolan issue is separate, but you can't just "send Dolan away." "Culture" sounds good in theory, but these teams culture exists because of their stars. Yes having Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant etc makes the coaches, GMs, and culture look better and function better, i agree. Thats why they are all-time greats.

MELO AS the focal point and salary makes for a bad plan.. that is how I feel...

It would be great to have a Tim Duncan, or Dirk, Or lebron or wade.. we don't... but those gems can be found, good management finds them and then develops them.. the pacers are on path with paul george, again, as we both agree it seems, it starts up top..

Wait a minute- I thought you liked Melo?


melo would have been okay coming as a free agent for just cash and not assuming he would be the main guy. in that context he may have become "likable."

but he didn't... so he isn't.

Ujiri was moving him and not waiting to get nothing for him. He either got moved to the Knicks or somewhere else.

after this season, when the knicks fail to get any further than last season's study in futility, you will have wished he went somewhere else.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
knicks1248
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8/27/2013  9:53 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
callmened wrote:i always thought of Melo as a McGrady 2.0...gifted scorer but nothing else...not a great leader of men...a solid #2 on a great team

I too view them in the same light, but have a slightly different take. Melo is Tmac with better luck with health. But both players are great number 1 options, but have lacked the right number 2 (or 1B option.) Tmac had Yao but not for long enough during his prime. When i consider Tmac and Melo #1 options, i am referring to being the top player on a winning team, as well as leading scorer. But a very specific second option is needed, such as Pippen, Westbrook, Wade, or one of the many other historical number 2 options on successful teams.

Not to deter from the conversation but I think the bottom is going to fall out from Melo sooner rather than later. He has gone without help for too long and plays too physical a game to stay healthy in the future. It is already starting to show; didn't he have knee surgery on both knees and on his elbow last offseason? This season it was only the shoulder fortunately but he is getting too injuried too frequently.

Injuries have not slowed him down once recovered. He was more dominant than ever last season when healthy. While he does play a physical game, its more important to note that he does not rely on athletic ability to play his game, similar to players such as wade, etc who are more apt to decline sooner once they hit 30 and the run/jump abilities take a hit. Players like Melo will typically age better. Strength and shooting don't decline as rapidly as players who dominate by being freak athletes. He will sustain injuries because of the hits, but as long as they aren't major they shouldn't affect him anytime soon.

Allan Houston was not an athletic freak either but injuries prevented him from even stepping onto the court. Houston did not have to deal with half the injuries/kniks that Melo has to. You know I love Melo's game but these issues make me skeptical of him being a long term player for us.

Houston's career ended because he had micro fracture surgery. A lot of guys had their careers end because of that surgery.

not to mention he played to long before the surgery, and came back to soon after the surgury, just trying to live up to that contract..

ES
yellowboy90
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8/27/2013  9:57 PM
I remember the Tmac versus Kobe campaign. That was fun times. Tracy and Grant was supposed to rebuild Orlando. Sad.
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Tmac Retires
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