RonRon wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:ivan johnson > petro,

between ivan metta and kmart we have all the grunt filthy guys we need to make things ugly for pretty people in the paint

2 different players -- one guy's a 4 that might be able to play a little 3 at times; the other guy's a legit C. We could use both for more depth.

For Ivan Johnson, I think you are just looking at his height, and trying to justify his position at SF
He is a undersized PF/C, nothing is wrong with that, I don't think many people watched Atlanta or Ivan Johnson actually play but I have watched him for the past 2 years on limited basis, not just vs the Knick's either

Similar to Kmart, Blaire, Jason Maxiel, Glen Davis, and many other players who are all undersized PF/C

It is almost calling Faried a G/F with great rebounding ability and great athleticism
Melo is closer to a SG than Ivan is to a small forward

Height is not the only deciding factor when it comes to defining a position and productivity of a team
Not nearly as important as other physical abilities, skills, weakness's of the player, and the ability to DEFEND the position
If height was the greatest factor, we should play a line up of

JR/Iman
Melo
AB/Artest
AB/Kmart/STAT
Chandler

I tried to assemble a line up that actually has other skills to with their height too, not just a team with height to prove a point, like 5 Shaq's, CWEB's, but 5 Pippens, Magic Johnson's, or Lebron's might work LOL

Just my opinion and not a personal attack btw, agree with a lot of your posts in general

Yeah, no sweat Ron. Didn't take it that way at all my friend. We'll have to agree to disagree on IJ though, on what type of player he is...I dunno, I see a guy that's more PF that can legitimately play some 3 over a guy that's a quintessential 4/5. Could he play 5 in a pinch? Sure he could but we all saw last year what playing an undersized player against one of the better 5s in the league gets you. He's got the strength/girth to play a guy like Hibbert down low more or less but not the height. Hibbert easily executes his moves on this guy w/o much problem I feel. It's a defensive mismatch....So yeah, I feel size is a pretty big factor when trying to guard the better 5s in this league---if the size isn't there, you're at an immediate disadvantage trying to contain some of these better NBA centers...I just feel that Johnson's better equipped physically/athletically/size-wise/foot speed-wise to handle guys like Paul Pierce, Lebron etc. than the Roy Hibberts of the world...And that's just defensively speaking..

Offensively, I see a very underrated player, perhaps one the league's most underrated. He's aggressive & real hard-nosed while also possessing some real underrated offensive skills -- good enough looking jumpshot, ability to take guys off the dribble and finish with authority (forgot where I read it recently but somewhere someone was commenting that he doesn't play "above the rim" -- I don't agree with that at all, that's just not accurate), ability to pick guys clean with some real quick hands for someone that big and go coast to coast for dunks showing a very good handle (a typical skilled SF's handle---check him out in some of these vids on youtube in the open floor -- wow, this is a guy 6'8" 250 lbs!), ability to pump fake guys and either go around them all the way to the goal or create space for an open J -- all these offensive skills of his feel more SF than C to me. Your typical center's game is throw it into the post and execute a move 5' feet from the hole. He can do a hell of a lot more than that offensively. I don't quite see the Jason Maxiell, K-Mart, Ken Faried comparisons...I originally commented that he might be a more hard-nosed Anthony Tolliver and I no longer think that's accurate --- refamiliarizing myself with his game, I now see more offensive/defensive versatility than that. I see a poor man's MWP, along with some Draymond Green, Royce White, a dash of DaJuan Summers maybe...That smaller PF body-type with some legit SF skills.

He really is a fairly unique player that I'm all for adding. I feel he'd provide excellent depth at both forward spots...Look at some of these vids and see if you can see where I'm coming from a little:

callmened wrote:Dont get me wrong...id take Ivan over petro anyday!!

however, im worried about this teams lack of size. I still have nightmares of Hibbert looking like Kareem out there vs tyson. I want a back up 7fter who could defend. i dont care how raw he is offensively. Ivan johnson is a 4...not a 3 not a 5...if there was ever a reincarnation of charles oakley this is it

the reason why i cant comment on haddadi because ive never seen him play for an extended period of time

Respectfully Ned, I just don't see the Oakley comparison, outside of the similar hard-nosed, take no **** brand of play. What Oak did he did very well -- he was one of the league's better rebounders and better low post defenders in his day. A true enforcer...Took him a little bit but he eventually became a very reliable mid-range jumpshooter and yeah, he liked to throw that homerun pass a lot (many of which ended up being overthrown into the stands from what I remember -- lol). I don't know if Ivan Johnson could ever be better at the things Oakley did well but there's no question that he's a more versatile talent overall. First off, the speed, quickness and athleticism favor Johnson in a big way...Oak was a positional rebounder/defender all the way. Never blocked a shot, barely ever got off the ground. Very rarely if ever did Oak even dunk the ball..And he couldn't even take a turtle off the dribble....No way Oakley could ever go coast to coast with the ball in his hands the way this dude can. No way Oakley could ever put it on the floor and finish with authority the way this dude does. I see why you might say they're similar -- I see the same level of intensity, strength and toughness but other than that, they're different players. And I'm not saying IJ's a legit 3; i know he's not. To me he's a 4 that shows some elements to his game on both ends that makes me believe he could operate at the 3 on a consistent basis if need be.

Like Kmart, they both are undersized too play the C's but that is who they are, PF/C's
They have good athleticism, a good handle as a BIG, and on a switch/pick or as a help defender can defend the SF position better than many legit Center's
Both use their combination of speed/mobility, strength, and athleticism to play the PF/C position

If I had to pick one position, it would be closest to a undersized PF, but I agree on a switch they can defend the SF position
But lack the ability to constantly defend the SF position especially starting caliber SF's like Lebron/Durant (really a class of their own), Paul George, Rudy Gay, Battum, Chandler Parsons, Deng, and many other SF's
Just like he would have problems defending the Gasol brother's, Bynum, D12, Hibbert, Duncan, Noah, any many other Centers
And that is why he is a backup player, defending 2nd units and even 3rd units players