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Scola to Pacers
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yellowboy90
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7/29/2013  8:34 AM
ChuckBuck wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Solid acquisition. They're a well run organization.

If the Knicks did this trade they would be crushed on this board 100% guaranteed . Essentially 2 firsts for an amnestied player with bad knees.

Yup.

Why does this kind of thing bothers so many Knick fans.

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Bonn1997
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7/29/2013  8:47 AM
Let's see, per 36 min Scola averages 3.5 more rbs and 1 more assist. His career FG% is .504 while Bargnani is .437. If they weren't both white, people wouldn't even compare them.
ChuckBuck
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7/29/2013  8:54 AM
Let's see Scola is 33 and Bargnani 26.

Knicks really overpayed for that old fogey, and Pacers got a young stud for cheap!

BigDaddyG
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7/29/2013  9:00 AM
Jmpasq wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:Moke Hamilton ‏@MokeHamilton 1m
And as for the Pacers, paying such a steep price for Scola makes their Copeland signing look strange, in hindsight. But they're deep.

I still think they signed Cope to play back up SF with the intention of moving Granger ASAP.

Still, with Granger, Cope and Scola coming in, that's a big step back defensively.


I still believe they are planning to move Grainger. i would of thought a small market team would of jumped at Grainger by now. I guess the Pacers asking price hasnt been reasonable. They are probably trying to get number 1 option assets back which isnt happening.

Doesn't seem that strange to me. In a perfect world, Cope is your third or fourth scorer of the bench. I think they brough in Cope to add more versatility to their line up and he will play accordingly. Cope's defense is too shaky to count on as the first forward off the bench. The thing about Scola you have to worry about is his age. He was never a high-flyer to begin with, so it shouldn't be that big of a issue. But you never know...
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Bonn1997
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7/29/2013  9:35 AM
skeng wrote:Seems similar to our Bargnani deal with all that yoot exchanged for an offensively skilled PF with below average defense. And people are lauding the Pacers move, but not ours. Bargs and Scola aren't super different, with Scola having a small edge on Bargs. Bargs has better range, Scola better post play and rebounding, but other than that I think they'll probably have a similar output this season. And we didn't give up 2 1st RD picks in our deal.

1 first round pick and a player they have given up on (who happened to be drafted in the first round). Normally players are not considered picks. Did we give up the second pick of the first round (Camby) for Bargnani?
Jmpasq
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7/29/2013  10:11 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/29/2013  10:14 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
skeng wrote:Seems similar to our Bargnani deal with all that yoot exchanged for an offensively skilled PF with below average defense. And people are lauding the Pacers move, but not ours. Bargs and Scola aren't super different, with Scola having a small edge on Bargs. Bargs has better range, Scola better post play and rebounding, but other than that I think they'll probably have a similar output this season. And we didn't give up 2 1st RD picks in our deal.

1 first round pick and a player they have given up on (who happened to be drafted in the first round). Normally players are not considered picks. Did we give up the second pick of the first round (Camby) for Bargnani?

1 player was picked in 2012 the other in 1996 are u really going to pretend that your comparison has any validity at all .When we traded Jordan Hill for nothing I considered that giving up Multiple picks.
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Bonn1997
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7/29/2013  10:55 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/29/2013  10:56 AM
Jmpasq wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
skeng wrote:Seems similar to our Bargnani deal with all that yoot exchanged for an offensively skilled PF with below average defense. And people are lauding the Pacers move, but not ours. Bargs and Scola aren't super different, with Scola having a small edge on Bargs. Bargs has better range, Scola better post play and rebounding, but other than that I think they'll probably have a similar output this season. And we didn't give up 2 1st RD picks in our deal.

1 first round pick and a player they have given up on (who happened to be drafted in the first round). Normally players are not considered picks. Did we give up the second pick of the first round (Camby) for Bargnani?

1 player was picked in 2012 the other in 1996 are u really going to pretend that your comparison has any validity at all .When we traded Jordan Hill for nothing I considered that giving up Multiple picks.

I was obviously exaggerating but it's ridiculous to call players draft picks. A player simply is not a draft pick. A player that turns out poorly is a sunk cost, whereas a future pick is an asset.

skeng
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7/29/2013  4:39 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
skeng wrote:Seems similar to our Bargnani deal with all that yoot exchanged for an offensively skilled PF with below average defense. And people are lauding the Pacers move, but not ours. Bargs and Scola aren't super different, with Scola having a small edge on Bargs. Bargs has better range, Scola better post play and rebounding, but other than that I think they'll probably have a similar output this season. And we didn't give up 2 1st RD picks in our deal.

1 first round pick and a player they have given up on (who happened to be drafted in the first round). Normally players are not considered picks. Did we give up the second pick of the first round (Camby) for Bargnani?

1 player was picked in 2012 the other in 1996 are u really going to pretend that your comparison has any validity at all .When we traded Jordan Hill for nothing I considered that giving up Multiple picks.

I was obviously exaggerating but it's ridiculous to call players draft picks. A player simply is not a draft pick. A player that turns out poorly is a sunk cost, whereas a future pick is an asset.

I understand your point about picks only being considered assets, but Plumlee might as well be considered a rookie at this point. Dude needs to play and it wasn't going to happen with Hibbert and Manhimi in front of him. He could've been drafted in this years draft and he'd be even closer to being considered a "draft pick". I know players aren't draft picks, but when you're talking about a rookie/1 year vet, they are similar value to me. Everything is relative of course, but in this case I think Plumlee = 1st round pick value.

When Denver was testing the waters with Mozgov at the deadline this past season, his worth was basically reported as being a mid to late 1st round pick. I can see Moz and Plumlee having similar value, with Plumlee having better potential.

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Bonn1997
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7/29/2013  10:47 PM
That could be the case but Indiana knows more about him than any other team does and they are good at evaluating players.
CrushAlot
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7/29/2013  10:59 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:That could be the case but Indiana knows more about him than any other team does and they are good at evaluating players.
Plumlee blew up in the summer leagues this year. I think he might have beat out Mahini for minutes if he had stayed. The Pacers wanted to get out of Green's contract in addition to getting Scola. Also, Scola has had knee problems and is said to have arthritis. This wasn't the steal or great deal for Indy that it is being made out to be. If anything it was a fair deal for both teams.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
nixluva
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7/30/2013  2:46 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/30/2013  2:47 AM
Guys like Scola don't really impact the way teams defend. Don't make the mistake that some guy who is efficient and productive in the middle of the game and in the regular season is more impactful than a lead guy who teams design a defensive scheme to try and stop. Some players can get the same numbers as a star player but still not make the impact for their team that a star does. It's easier for players that don't face double and triple teams to score and do what they do, because there's less focus on them and they don't have to shoulder the same load. Scola is a solid role player but that's all. Scola hasn't had the same pressure to perform that Bargnani has had. If he got the same level of attention from opposing teams he wouldn't put up the same numbers.
Bonn1997
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7/30/2013  8:35 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:That could be the case but Indiana knows more about him than any other team does and they are good at evaluating players.
Plumlee blew up in the summer leagues this year. I think he might have beat out Mahini for minutes if he had stayed. The Pacers wanted to get out of Green's contract in addition to getting Scola. Also, Scola has had knee problems and is said to have arthritis. This wasn't the steal or great deal for Indy that it is being made out to be. If anything it was a fair deal for both teams.

Does he have arthritis? I couldn't find anything on that, and he played all 82 last year.
CrushAlot
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7/30/2013  8:48 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:That could be the case but Indiana knows more about him than any other team does and they are good at evaluating players.
Plumlee blew up in the summer leagues this year. I think he might have beat out Mahini for minutes if he had stayed. The Pacers wanted to get out of Green's contract in addition to getting Scola. Also, Scola has had knee problems and is said to have arthritis. This wasn't the steal or great deal for Indy that it is being made out to be. If anything it was a fair deal for both teams.

Does he have arthritis? I couldn't find anything on that, and he played all 82 last year.

I believe he does have arthritis.

I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
RonRon
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7/30/2013  8:52 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/30/2013  8:56 AM
nixluva wrote:Guys like Scola don't really impact the way teams defend. Don't make the mistake that some guy who is efficient and productive in the middle of the game and in the regular season is more impactful than a lead guy who teams design a defensive scheme to try and stop. Some players can get the same numbers as a star player but still not make the impact for their team that a star does. It's easier for players that don't face double and triple teams to score and do what they do, because there's less focus on them and they don't have to shoulder the same load. Scola is a solid role player but that's all. Scola hasn't had the same pressure to perform that Bargnani has had. If he got the same level of attention from opposing teams he wouldn't put up the same numbers.


From the Novak resigned post......

nixluva wrote:Novak is worth it! We had almost no spacing, penetration or ball movement and that means that the Heat could just play their zone, which allows them to be within 2 steps of the paint and the 3 point line. The main reason is that Lebron and Wade are so fast that they can close off the paint and still get back to the 3pt line. However, we didn't even have any penetration to draw them away from Novak. They could just have someone stay right near him cuz our offense was too simple and predictable and it didn't force the D to adjust and cover the entire court. This year we'll have more penetration and spacing so Novak should be able to get open looks. Also we didn't set enough picks for Novak to get open or use him coming off curls. This is partly Woody's fault for going away from those plays that worked.

NixLuva, I am not trying to disrespect you in any way in this post
You are the supreme optimistic, and bias(many of us are) Knick's poster on the site

I agree with you on BOTH of your post's here (about Novak and AB), but truth is we DON"T KNOW how Woodson and AB (with the player's/media/analyst/fans and in the Garden) will be utilized/perform, and will we make more efforts to play as a team
But Novak's deal was a poor financial decision, he is a 1 dimensional player that was not utilized correctly for his *ability to shoot*, not maximizing his abilities and was used here as a spread option in which he could be easily contained 1v1 by his man

In theory, Copeland proved he was capable of doing the things that AB has done and some things Copeland even has done better than AB
But how many DNP and limited role/playing time/dog house treatment did Copeland receive anyway?
Copeland could spread the floor and play PF/C, shooting the 3pt shot in a efficient 40% number/getting his shot off with little room, put the ball in the floor when defended and taking it to the paint for easy baskets or kicking it back out to an open team mate, move well off the ball/set good screens for PnR plays, posting up and grabbing offensive boards in the end of the season with improved DEFENSE, played as a #1 option and even created for his team mates in lower roles, but when Melo was put back on the floor everything changes back to suit MELO and everyone has to play off MELO instead of a more balanced attack with the mismatch


Will we be playing a more TEAM EMPHASIS, using more plays as players are legit #1, #2, and #3 options, since we never had it in previous years with injuries?
Using picks on and off the ball, how Woodson changes his philosophies (or if he will stay stubborn after Vogul, Chandler/Iman's comments), get Melo to play OFF THE BALL *something he has been unwilling to do consistently*... , at SF, 1 of his strength's is STRENGTH, with the spacing we should have with the shooters we have now at SF, Melo should have the ability to grab OFFENSIVE BOARD's to help the team in other ways


AB is taller than Copeland but his defense/rebounding abilities is comparable or even worse than Copeland
How will we continue our players mesh with AB?


With all the talk about how AB and Melo would benefit from playing with each other
Will Melo even mesh with him AB, playing on and off each other's abilities, or will AB be utilized like Novak?

if Tyson Chandler would mesh would him (if Tyson Chandler can score on his man 1v1 especially when his man cheat's helps, it should "theoretically" work

AB is similar to Amare's weakness's and would we find a way to hide both their weakness's especially if they play together?

Copeland had a great connection with Pablo, hopefully it continues with AB's similar skills
But is AB really injury free?
Will AB be allowed to play regardless of his weakness's as STAT was able to play?


AB will most likely fit in with Pablo, Kmart (a mobile PF/C that moves very well for both OFF AND DEF), and if JR Smith is healthy *should open up JR's ability to penetrate to finish or find AB for a wide open shot*


I hope it works well but we simply don't know many of these problems, if Woodson will make changes to his philosophies and if the TEAM/PLAYER's is capable of correcting their poor habits, will players be okay with their EGO's and sacrifice for the BETTER of the team?

BigDaddyG
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7/30/2013  9:46 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:That could be the case but Indiana knows more about him than any other team does and they are good at evaluating players.
Plumlee blew up in the summer leagues this year. I think he might have beat out Mahini for minutes if he had stayed. The Pacers wanted to get out of Green's contract in addition to getting Scola. Also, Scola has had knee problems and is said to have arthritis. This wasn't the steal or great deal for Indy that it is being made out to be. If anything it was a fair deal for both teams.

Does he have arthritis? I couldn't find anything on that, and he played all 82 last year.

I believe he does have arthritis.


OK. That explains why he played so few minutes last year. Fotrunately, for him anyway, his game doesn't depend too much on athleticism.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Scola to Pacers

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