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I often wonder why substance abuse in the NBA is rare
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Uptown
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7/23/2013  4:44 PM
PresIke wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:Lebron James and Miami Deer Antler - You heard it here first

NBA is drug testing. Shits gonna hit the fan

bro, no disrespect, but you wouldn't be the first to speculate about lebron on this. and who's 'deer antler?' there really isn't a whole lot of real evidence about lebron as he has been a physical beast since he was a teenager.

i would not say it is not possible that he has used/uses, but we could speculate about a whole lot of players, as more players have crazy physiques than in the past, but i am sure players we saw in the late 80's and 90's were probably using as well.

we could speculate about many players of that era...oakley, the admiral, karl malone, zo, lj, shaq (who definitely beefed up after college), etc. etc.

Very true....I also think Baseball protecting its so-called legends and past records is a joke. They didn't have steroids as we know it now back in the 1930's-1960's but they certainly had greenies, etc. As long as there is an advantage to be had, you will see your share of athletes looking for that edge.

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Knixkik
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7/23/2013  5:01 PM
Nalod wrote:What does poplularity have to do with PED's?

Its testing and how many in the sample.

If you are referring to my comment above your's, then i'm not exactly sure what you mean. It has nothing to do with popularity.

gunsnewing
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7/23/2013  5:04 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/23/2013  5:20 PM
PresIke wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:Lebron James and Miami Deer Antler - You heard it here first

NBA is drug testing. Shits gonna hit the fan

bro, no disrespect, but you wouldn't be the first to speculate about lebron on this. and who's 'deer antler?' there really isn't a whole lot of real evidence about lebron as he has been a physical beast since he was a teenager.

i would not say it is not possible that he has used/uses, but we could speculate about a whole lot of players, as more players have crazy physiques than in the past, but i am sure players we saw in the late 80's and 90's were probably using as well.

we could speculate about many players of that era...oakley, the admiral, karl malone, zo, lj, shaq (who definitely beefed up after college), etc. etc.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=43899&page=2

gunsnewing
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7/23/2013  5:10 PM
Bonds was a beast too as a teen. Steriods make beasts beastlier
gunsnewing
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7/23/2013  5:38 PM
Peds increase durability, stamina and recovery time. Hence Lebron
Jmpasq
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7/23/2013  6:10 PM
PresIke wrote:yep, bottom line is baseball is a sport in decline. they should really just allow the players to take drugs for the sake of the game.

again, if it comes out that nba players use ped's i could really care less (seems likely), and i do stand by my point that it has a little less of an impact on the game than the other sports.


Players might play longer at a higher level which Im fine with. I really dont care if they are using PED's
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7/23/2013  6:12 PM
Knixkik wrote:
y2zipper wrote:Basketball and Baseball are very similar in terms of relevance. The NBA has drawn better recently in the playoffs because of the Heat but historically, ratings are about the same. But these sports are local for the most part anyway.

As far as juicing goes, more players in baseball, background and culture of other countries ( specifically Latin America), and people care more about it because numbers validate the game (although historically you could say that every era is tainted by segregation, cheaters and drug users). I don't support juicing, but it's not THAT far away from the past as people want to believe.

They are similar now, but opposite in trejectory. Baseball is a top heavy sport on the downslide, basketball is a sport with more distributed fanbase and being the most popular sport in social media shows the direction the sport is headed in terms of popularity.


Gaining popularity worldwide to.
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gunsnewing
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7/23/2013  6:28 PM
And the rumors that develop on your joints, knees and hips from performance enhancing DRUG abuse? I guess as long as they are not taking straight roids
PresIke
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7/23/2013  6:49 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/23/2013  7:13 PM
gunsnewing wrote:
PresIke wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:Lebron James and Miami Deer Antler - You heard it here first

NBA is drug testing. Shits gonna hit the fan

bro, no disrespect, but you wouldn't be the first to speculate about lebron on this. and who's 'deer antler?' there really isn't a whole lot of real evidence about lebron as he has been a physical beast since he was a teenager.

i would not say it is not possible that he has used/uses, but we could speculate about a whole lot of players, as more players have crazy physiques than in the past, but i am sure players we saw in the late 80's and 90's were probably using as well.

we could speculate about many players of that era...oakley, the admiral, karl malone, zo, lj, shaq (who definitely beefed up after college), etc. etc.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=43899&page=2

cool. yeah, i remember your post from then. i posted in the thread there as well with a joke about turkoglu, who i believe was suspended for steroids that same day you posted your speculation that lebron was using as well. point is, man, that i knew others had been thinking this about lebron before you published the post here.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090110020234AA2gQ6g

this was posted 5 years ago, and just check google there's plenty more:

http://tinyurl.com/mpun3x9

there are many many people posting/writing about this and have been for years.

sorry mayn...you ain't the first one on this.

Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
PresIke
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7/23/2013  6:54 PM
gunsnewing wrote:Bonds was a beast too as a teen. Steriods make beasts beastlier

dude, c'mon now. bonds was not a beast as he was late in his career hitting 50-70 hrs as when he was on the pirates hitting 20-30 home runs. back then he was trim, fit and pretty strong, but not that huge. it is well documented he became physically bigger. i think his head grew or something crazy like that.

Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
PresIke
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7/23/2013  7:10 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/23/2013  7:19 PM
Jmpasq wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
y2zipper wrote:Basketball and Baseball are very similar in terms of relevance. The NBA has drawn better recently in the playoffs because of the Heat but historically, ratings are about the same. But these sports are local for the most part anyway.

As far as juicing goes, more players in baseball, background and culture of other countries ( specifically Latin America), and people care more about it because numbers validate the game (although historically you could say that every era is tainted by segregation, cheaters and drug users). I don't support juicing, but it's not THAT far away from the past as people want to believe.

They are similar now, but opposite in trejectory. Baseball is a top heavy sport on the downslide, basketball is a sport with more distributed fanbase and being the most popular sport in social media shows the direction the sport is headed in terms of popularity.


Gaining popularity worldwide to.

yeah, basketball is easily the most popular sport from america, globally. it is watched and played around the world. baseball is really only popular in north america, mostly ex-colonies of the united states, and a few other nations with a history of heavy u.s. influence in south/central america and east asia.

basketball has grown in those countries, but also places that do not have ties to u.s. foreign policy/influence, particularly after the 1992 barcelona olympics aka the dream team. that had a huge impact on growth globally of the sport. baseball has never caught on as such. soccer on the other hand has caught on in america and is also a non-american sport growing in the states.

i think basketball and soccer are growing it's because they are not as focused on violence like football (making it appealing to women and for their children to watch), are very fluid games (little stopping) unlike baseball and football, the creative play occurs often and is the driving force behind the attractiveness of the game (where as baseball the big thing is the power of a home run, or with the nfl it's that big hit...although both other sports have creative play involved, it just isn't the emphasis, to me), both are shorter in game length making it less time consuming/not as much as a commitment than baseball or foottball, almost all athletes are very fit (also attractive to women) unlike the many giants of the nfl and the big look power hitters of mlb (maybe less popular as a look with women in general, although not in america).

just my take...

Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
gunsnewing
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7/23/2013  7:22 PM
Beast as in greatness. Not everyone who takes roids becomes Barry bonds. Same with Lebron. Greatness becomes Greater
PresIke
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7/23/2013  7:42 PM
oh okay, i get you now.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
Nalod
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7/24/2013  8:34 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/24/2013  8:36 AM
Im not concerned with the pro athlete that makes the choice to cash in years of good health to chase the dream of wealth and fame.

To get their you have to rise up and be in the top 1%. That means 99% "fail". Its that vast majority that I am concerned about. Many will, too keep up take PED's and suffer the consequences. Some of these kids might be some of your children.

Many of the athletes slip into obscurity and live only to age 57. Maybe its the concussions, maybe liver damage from too many anti-infamitories, or heart problems, or back, or knee replacement or the hip. All related to PEDs? Not always, but we all pay for it with our health insurance as a society. Obesity is one problem, now we are to have a whole other demographic needing expensive social care?

Cost to society? Cost to lost productivity? Cost to quality of life? Cost to families losing men under the age of 60?

It adds up.

Personally I don't care about Arod or Braun, its the guy in the minors who did not make it but is hurting his body. Its the kid in highschool who feels like he has to bulk up, the guy in college who has to get big or lose his scholarship.........

NBA don't test, thats why the abuse is rare.

If We accuse Lebron, can we say the same of Jordan who played well into his late 30's with little injury? Kobe whose arrogance is second to few and can be construed as altered from PED's (rage)???

Nalod
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7/24/2013  9:37 AM
.......also, when you college buddy who lifted and used, dies of a heart attack at age 53, maybe we'll see the problem as being a bit more problematic.

Yeah, that happened to a friend of mine. He really thought there was nothing wrong with what he was doing. "everyone was doing it"!!! It was wide spread. I have to admit, I too was tempted by I have bad family history and have family members struck down by ate 48 with a heart conditon and it did scare me off. BTW, I did have to have open heart surgery to correct it.

My friend had no family history and there is not direct "Smoking gun" proof but two docters that investigated and autopsied his for reseasrch purpose all but confirmed there was a strong link.

He aspired to play football.

His wife and children might not care about A-rod or Braun, but they miss their father.

Since we love to indict and lay blame lets look at this for a minute. Is my buddy to blame? Of course. He regretted his body alteration and had related problems. When you look at his father and brothers, they all looked the same but he got him a big old head, huge torso, legs like tree trunks and a thick chest. He looked like the rest of them until his use. He blamed nobody but his own ignorance. We live in a world that is competitive and we want more and more.

Are there medical purpose that benefit form PED's? Of course and in medical use there are trade offs perhaps. But like any other drug when abused it can have long term consequences. Now we know and are educated about it.

We dont' care about the Conseco's, Bonds, the A-rods, but I do care about my son and don't want to bury him in front of his kids.

Its the other 99% that don't make the pro's but still made a deal with the devil and might have to pay up one day.

IronWillGiroud
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7/24/2013  9:47 PM
the popular danger is overblown,

i know a man back in the Old Country who used steroids and he suffered a heart attack a few years later at age 54.

this is result of uninformed use, reckless application of powerful substances without the necessary preparation and follow up,

if you wake up one day, stick a needle in your ass and start bench pressing, you're gonna mess yourself up (or you might not if lucky),

but if you have professionals monitoring you, working to balance your system before, during and after PED use, this is a different story, this is feasible without much risk of tragic side effect,

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Nalod
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7/24/2013  10:45 PM
IronWillGiroud wrote:the popular danger is overblown,

i know a man back in the Old Country who used steroids and he suffered a heart attack a few years later at age 54.

this is result of uninformed use, reckless application of powerful substances without the necessary preparation and follow up,

if you wake up one day, stick a needle in your ass and start bench pressing, you're gonna mess yourself up (or you might not if lucky),

but if you have professionals monitoring you, working to balance your system before, during and after PED use, this is a different story, this is feasible without much risk of tragic side effect,

and you know this because...............????

IronWillGiroud
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7/25/2013  6:54 AM
Nalod wrote:
IronWillGiroud wrote:the popular danger is overblown,

i know a man back in the Old Country who used steroids and he suffered a heart attack a few years later at age 54.

this is result of uninformed use, reckless application of powerful substances without the necessary preparation and follow up,

if you wake up one day, stick a needle in your ass and start bench pressing, you're gonna mess yourself up (or you might not if lucky),

but if you have professionals monitoring you, working to balance your system before, during and after PED use, this is a different story, this is feasible without much risk of tragic side effect,

and you know this because...............????

why doesn't it make sense to you?

humans take dangerous stuff all the time, stuff that is toxic in large doses can be at the same very useful in controlled

The Will, check out the Official Home of Will's GameDay Art: http://tinyurl.com/thewillgameday
SupremeCommander
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7/25/2013  2:22 PM
well there you go...

The man who turned the Biogenesis clinic from a quiet investigation in Miami into a national scandal says there are at least a dozen more athletes whose names haven't been exposed and that they come from across the sports world.

Porter Fischer, the former Biogenesis of Miami clinic employee who turned boxes of documents over to the Miami New Times last year, declined to name the athletes. But in his first television interview, Fischer told "Outside the Lines" that numerous sports had at least one athlete who received performance-enhancing drugs from clinic founder Tony Bosch.

Porter Fischer is the man who brought the Biogenesis scandal public, by providing documents to a Miami newspaper that named MLB players as PED clients.
"This isn't a 2013 thing or a 2012 thing; some of these people have been on the books since 2009," Fischer said.

Fischer said he and associates have identified athletes from the NBA, NCAA, professional boxing, tennis and MMA, in addition to other professional baseball players who have not yet been identified. As far as he knows, Fischer said, Bosch had no clients from the NFL or NHL.

He said the only sports entity he has heard from was Major League Baseball.

The athletes not yet publicly named come from the documents Fischer took from the clinic, documents he said another employee asked him to take for safekeeping. The number of athletes involved with the clinic, based on what he saw and heard during his time with Biogenesis, is far more than people realize, he said.

"In just the four years that I know, it's got to be well over a hundred, easy," he said. "It's almost scary to think about how many people have gone through [Bosch's treatments] and how long he's gotten away with this."

Bosch has been cooperating with MLB for more than a month, providing what sources have said are extensive records of his connection to 20 to 25 players. The Milwaukee Brewers' Ryan Braun was already confronted with evidence, and he agreed to a season-ending 65-game suspension and forfeited his remaining salary for the year. Other suspensions, including for the New York Yankees' Alex Rodriguez, are expected within the next two weeks.

In Fischer's interview with "Outside the Lines," he said he never expected the insanity that turned his life "upside down" after he released the documents.

Fischer was a client of Bosch's for two years, believing the man known as "Dr. T" was a medical doctor. Bosch is not but has presented himself as one for years, treating patients like Fischer with weight-loss regimens of prescription drugs. Fischer, who worked in marketing for years, said he offered to start a marketing campaign for Biogenesis last year and that Bosch responded by asking him to invest in the company.

Fischer said he gave Bosch $4,000 in September with the promise he would get $4,800 in return. Fischer was named the company's marketing director. After receiving $1,200, he said the payments stopped. Several former Bosch associates said they were also owed money.

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"When I would approach him for money, he'd be like, 'I don't have it. I don't have it.' And I was like, 'I want my money.' He was like, 'I'm Dr. Tony Bosch. What are you going to do about it?'" Fischer said. "So this is what I did about it."

He took some of the Biogenesis documents in his possession to the New Times. His intention, he said, was to spark a federal investigation. After seeing the names of local police, attorneys and a judge in the documents, Fischer said he wasn't comfortable going to law enforcement.

"I was really, really counting on somebody from law enforcement to come up and take me under their wing and have me as a witness in a criminal investigation, but that never happened," he said.

Fischer said he never asked the New Times for money and never went to any of the leagues for money.

A few days before the article was set to run in January, Fischer said he was threatened by someone who he thought was a friend.

"I received that threat that, 'If you don't stop the article, if certain people are mentioned, you're going to be killed. This is not somebody to mess around with,' and so on and so forth. That freaked me out enough," he said.

The friend said he would give Fischer the balance of the money owed him if Fischer would turn over documents. Fischer took $4,000 -- "I only wanted the $3,600 I was owed" -- and turned over some documents. He kept copies, however, and became one of the most wanted men in South Florida.

Major League Baseball sent investigators to his mother's house, pounding on the door and saying they would offer money, according to Fischer's sister, Suzanne. "Outside the Lines" reporters found an MLB investigator's business card at the home that said, "Please call -- We know time = $. Call ASAP."

Eventually, MLB investigators found him and asked for his cooperation, Fischer said. He said he was handed an envelope with $5,000 as a down payment and eventually was given another $500. Fisher said he was reluctant to turn over documents, that he would have to leave the Miami area to start a new life if he cooperated. Eventually, he said, MLB offered him $125,000, a figure confirmed by a source familiar with MLB's investigation, but he turned that down.

"Previously, I had been getting calls from them every day," he said. "Once I turned them down for the $125,000, two days later they wrote me a letter instructing me not to destroy any documents and to keep them around."

On March 24, he said, while transporting the documents, his car was broken into and four of the seven boxes he had were stolen. The Boca Raton Police Department report of the incident states a handgun and a laptop were also stolen. One night, Fischer said, he was chased by three cars until a friend and police intervened. He said someone tried to poison one of his dogs and that several times he found feces on his car.

Fischer said he is still willing to cooperate with Major League Baseball, although he felt harassed by investigators. What he can't believe, he said, is that law enforcement never took up the case and that the Florida Department of Health fined Bosch only $5,000.

"I don't have any friends anymore," Fischer said. "The people that I thought were my friends ended up abandoning me or they side with the things they've seen in the media and read that because I've tried to stay quiet.

"I don't go to the same locations I used to go to. My blinds are closed all the time. I have a concealed weapons permit, but now I continually carry a weapon. It's not what I expected. It's not what I got involved for."

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/9508288/biogenesis-whistleblower-broke-open-scandal-says-ncaa-mma-nba-other-athletes-used-clinic-mlb-investigation

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
gunsnewing
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7/25/2013  2:30 PM
There you go. Need to look into the entire Miami Heat team who admitted they would do Nything to win including flopping
I often wonder why substance abuse in the NBA is rare

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