GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:I wouldn't say THJ took bad shots. I saw one that he shouldn't have put up at all. He was wide open and missed 2, but he could've drove on those very same shots.

SHump had some good plays and some bad, but overall I think he will eventually be much better running point.

CJ has talent, but needs to be a bit more aggressive.

Toure Murry looks pretty good as a defensive PG with a slick game, speed and finish around the basket.

Tyler is still a bit raw but you can see he has talent.

Vargas surprised me with his jumper.

McMorrow is HUGE and ready to bang. I'd consider him just off his raw size alone. GEEZ!

Agree with everything except Shump at the point, would rather we signed someone to fill that role and Shump worked on his game.

The Knicks will no doubt add another PG, but Shump is gonna have a bigger role in the rotation and it would be a big plus to have him improve his decision making and ball handling. You don't do that by not playing the point. You make him do it and get reps at game speed so he can get more comfortable. Then if he has the ball during the season he won't be scared to make a play.

Shump doesn't have to be a pure point. He needs to get good enough to be more of an asset with the ball in his hands. Someone who can make a play for others and keep the flow of the game going. It's a very smart thing to do with a guard you want to play major minutes for your team.

Its a matter of priorities. Shump was hurt and it prevented him from working on his offense. Shump needs time at the 2 more than any other position. If he were a more well rounded player offensively I would agree with you. He wasn't driving and kicking the ball out, it was almost entirely dribbling the ball to halfcourt and passing to someone on the wing. He made some nice passes in the paint which he could have made as a 2.

Bingo! This is exactly my thoughts.

CrushAlot wrote:We had company over and I only caught part of the broadcast. I did here some talk in the background about Aaron Brooks. Are the Knicks pursuing him?

Brooks has always been on the list. I think they're just waiting for everything to shake out and see who is left.

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:I wouldn't say THJ took bad shots. I saw one that he shouldn't have put up at all. He was wide open and missed 2, but he could've drove on those very same shots.

SHump had some good plays and some bad, but overall I think he will eventually be much better running point.

CJ has talent, but needs to be a bit more aggressive.

Toure Murry looks pretty good as a defensive PG with a slick game, speed and finish around the basket.

Tyler is still a bit raw but you can see he has talent.

Vargas surprised me with his jumper.

McMorrow is HUGE and ready to bang. I'd consider him just off his raw size alone. GEEZ!

Agree with everything except Shump at the point, would rather we signed someone to fill that role and Shump worked on his game.

The Knicks will no doubt add another PG, but Shump is gonna have a bigger role in the rotation and it would be a big plus to have him improve his decision making and ball handling. You don't do that by not playing the point. You make him do it and get reps at game speed so he can get more comfortable. Then if he has the ball during the season he won't be scared to make a play.

Shump doesn't have to be a pure point. He needs to get good enough to be more of an asset with the ball in his hands. Someone who can make a play for others and keep the flow of the game going. It's a very smart thing to do with a guard you want to play major minutes for your team.

Its a matter of priorities. Shump was hurt and it prevented him from working on his offense. Shump needs time at the 2 more than any other position. If he were a more well rounded player offensively I would agree with you. He wasn't driving and kicking the ball out, it was almost entirely dribbling the ball to halfcourt and passing to someone on the wing. He made some nice passes in the paint which he could have made as a 2.

You guys are not thinking like coaches. There are more options open to the coach in terms of defensive units if he can put Shump at the Point for stretches of games. This isn't about the bulk of his minutes in every game. Shump isn't going to be a pure point, but he's always going to be handling the ball as a guard. He's not going to lose the ability to score just cuz he's learning how to THINK the game more. This is a dumb argument.

The easiest thing is to call your own number. The best thing is the learn how to look for others 1st and learn patience and what is a good shot vs bad shot. Shump is learning the game by running point and that will only help him when he's not at the point.

You're not thinking about what Shump needs to work on more, wouldn't call that coaching. You say that he won't forget how to score, he still doesn't know how to do that effectively. Shump can't forget what he doesn't know how to do yet. Shump hasn't shown he can shoot off the dribble, finish in the lane, hit a mid range jumper with any consistency, but you seem to believe that playing the point is going to magically make him able to do that.

Its easy to call your own number, but its hard to punch the ticket and score if you don't work on your game. The only way he's going to learn to do that is with repetition. As I said, its matter of priorities. Nothing wrong with spending some time at the point and learning the game but his overall game has more pressing needs and so does the team.

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:I wouldn't say THJ took bad shots. I saw one that he shouldn't have put up at all. He was wide open and missed 2, but he could've drove on those very same shots.

SHump had some good plays and some bad, but overall I think he will eventually be much better running point.

CJ has talent, but needs to be a bit more aggressive.

Toure Murry looks pretty good as a defensive PG with a slick game, speed and finish around the basket.

Tyler is still a bit raw but you can see he has talent.

Vargas surprised me with his jumper.

McMorrow is HUGE and ready to bang. I'd consider him just off his raw size alone. GEEZ!

Agree with everything except Shump at the point, would rather we signed someone to fill that role and Shump worked on his game.

The Knicks will no doubt add another PG, but Shump is gonna have a bigger role in the rotation and it would be a big plus to have him improve his decision making and ball handling. You don't do that by not playing the point. You make him do it and get reps at game speed so he can get more comfortable. Then if he has the ball during the season he won't be scared to make a play.

Shump doesn't have to be a pure point. He needs to get good enough to be more of an asset with the ball in his hands. Someone who can make a play for others and keep the flow of the game going. It's a very smart thing to do with a guard you want to play major minutes for your team.

Its a matter of priorities. Shump was hurt and it prevented him from working on his offense. Shump needs time at the 2 more than any other position. If he were a more well rounded player offensively I would agree with you. He wasn't driving and kicking the ball out, it was almost entirely dribbling the ball to halfcourt and passing to someone on the wing. He made some nice passes in the paint which he could have made as a 2.

You guys are not thinking like coaches. There are more options open to the coach in terms of defensive units if he can put Shump at the Point for stretches of games. This isn't about the bulk of his minutes in every game. Shump isn't going to be a pure point, but he's always going to be handling the ball as a guard. He's not going to lose the ability to score just cuz he's learning how to THINK the game more. This is a dumb argument.

The easiest thing is to call your own number. The best thing is the learn how to look for others 1st and learn patience and what is a good shot vs bad shot. Shump is learning the game by running point and that will only help him when he's not at the point.

You're not thinking about what Shump needs to work on more, wouldn't call that coaching. You say that he won't forget how to score, he still doesn't know how to do that effectively. Shump can't forget what he doesn't know how to do yet. Shump hasn't shown he can shoot off the dribble, finish in the lane, hit a mid range jumper with any consistency, but you seem to believe that playing the point is going to magically make him able to do that.

Its easy to call your own number, but its hard to punch the ticket and score if you don't work on your game. The only way he's going to learn to do that is with repetition. As I said, its matter of priorities. Nothing wrong with spending some time at the point and learning the game but his overall game has more pressing needs and so does the team.

You start with him handling the ball more which PG's do, which will actually allow him to get more scoring opportunities. Then you improve his decision making which not only helps his game but his teammates and makes him a better all around player. Then you have him start looking to drive off PnR as a natural progression of his PG game. It's all part of a process. You guys want him to put his head down and drive but this approach is smarter and will develop a better player if you just let it play out.

You think they want him to be a pure point that NEVER looks for his shot??? WTF is wrong with you guys. You act like you don't know BB or something. It's a process!!! You start with the basics of setting up the offense and then add to that once he has the basics down. He'll be a much better player than if you have him just calling his own number. GEEZ!!!

I am glad they learned fast this time.

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:I wouldn't say THJ took bad shots. I saw one that he shouldn't have put up at all. He was wide open and missed 2, but he could've drove on those very same shots.

SHump had some good plays and some bad, but overall I think he will eventually be much better running point.

CJ has talent, but needs to be a bit more aggressive.

Toure Murry looks pretty good as a defensive PG with a slick game, speed and finish around the basket.

Tyler is still a bit raw but you can see he has talent.

Vargas surprised me with his jumper.

McMorrow is HUGE and ready to bang. I'd consider him just off his raw size alone. GEEZ!

Agree with everything except Shump at the point, would rather we signed someone to fill that role and Shump worked on his game.

The Knicks will no doubt add another PG, but Shump is gonna have a bigger role in the rotation and it would be a big plus to have him improve his decision making and ball handling. You don't do that by not playing the point. You make him do it and get reps at game speed so he can get more comfortable. Then if he has the ball during the season he won't be scared to make a play.

Shump doesn't have to be a pure point. He needs to get good enough to be more of an asset with the ball in his hands. Someone who can make a play for others and keep the flow of the game going. It's a very smart thing to do with a guard you want to play major minutes for your team.

Its a matter of priorities. Shump was hurt and it prevented him from working on his offense. Shump needs time at the 2 more than any other position. If he were a more well rounded player offensively I would agree with you. He wasn't driving and kicking the ball out, it was almost entirely dribbling the ball to halfcourt and passing to someone on the wing. He made some nice passes in the paint which he could have made as a 2.

You guys are not thinking like coaches. There are more options open to the coach in terms of defensive units if he can put Shump at the Point for stretches of games. This isn't about the bulk of his minutes in every game. Shump isn't going to be a pure point, but he's always going to be handling the ball as a guard. He's not going to lose the ability to score just cuz he's learning how to THINK the game more. This is a dumb argument.

The easiest thing is to call your own number. The best thing is the learn how to look for others 1st and learn patience and what is a good shot vs bad shot. Shump is learning the game by running point and that will only help him when he's not at the point.

You're not thinking about what Shump needs to work on more, wouldn't call that coaching. You say that he won't forget how to score, he still doesn't know how to do that effectively. Shump can't forget what he doesn't know how to do yet. Shump hasn't shown he can shoot off the dribble, finish in the lane, hit a mid range jumper with any consistency, but you seem to believe that playing the point is going to magically make him able to do that.

Its easy to call your own number, but its hard to punch the ticket and score if you don't work on your game. The only way he's going to learn to do that is with repetition. As I said, its matter of priorities. Nothing wrong with spending some time at the point and learning the game but his overall game has more pressing needs and so does the team.

You start with him handling the ball more which PG's do, which will actually allow him to get more scoring opportunities. Then you improve his decision making which not only helps his game but his teammates and makes him a better all around player. Then you have him start looking to drive off PnR as a natural progression of his PG game. It's all part of a process. You guys want him to put his head down and drive but this approach is smarter and will develop a better player if you just let it play out.

You think they want him to be a pure point that NEVER looks for his shot??? WTF is wrong with you guys. You act like you don't know BB or something. It's a process!!! You start with the basics of setting up the offense and then add to that once he has the basics down. He'll be a much better player than if you have him just calling his own number. GEEZ!!!

You're a real piece of work Nix. You've been wrong about too many things to question anyone's knowledge of the game. It usually comes in the first sentence, some remark about a poster you are having a discussion with being somehow mentally deficient. Try showing more class and just rebut my points without the constant insults because at some point you're going to have to prove it on a court.

You've reduced all the weaknesses I've pointed out in his game to putting his head down. Brilliant, just brilliant. You keep trying to convince me that there is value to playing the point, and I will try one last time to tell you that I agree with you. Where we differ is that I don't believe that dribbling the ball to the halfcourt line and passing off to a teammate on the wing is a substitute for learning his off the ball skills by actually playing off the ball.

THJ is getting the bulk of the minutes at the 2 because they are trying to develop him as a 2. This was Shump's idea to play SL so they figured they would let him play the point and maybe he will get better at sharing the ball. Nothing wrong with that if you already have other parts of your game down. Shump doesn't not even close. That's why I say that he has more pressing needs than dribbling the ball to the halfcourt line and passing to a teammate.

Vmart wrote:I wouldn't worry to much about Shumpert once he is running the point during regular season all he will have to do is dump the ball to Melo or give it to JR.

We can get a D league player to just dump the ball to melo. Why would we make Shump less effective to do something anyone can do.

nixluva wrote:

Clean wrote:

Vmart wrote:I wouldn't worry to much about Shumpert once he is running the point during regular season all he will have to do is dump the ball to Melo or give it to JR.

We can get a D league player to just dump the ball to melo. Why would we make Shump less effective to do something anyone can do.

Actually Shump is training for the times he'd be playing with AB, Tyson, THJ etc. It seems that no one noticed we ran plays for THJ running around screens on the baseline to take the corner jumper also curl plays and just plain old spot up 3's. That kind of off ball motion will be something new to the offense that we couldn't do as much with Novak, Cope etc. Shump will have to practice PnR for playing next to AB. There's a lot of positive stuff that can come from this including driving off PnR which will lead to more easy scoring opportunities for Shump as defenders try to take away AB's looks.

Everything you just said shump is doing can be done as a 2 guard. What shump did most of the time today was dribble up the court and pass to one of the wings. If he is learning to be a better SG why not play him as a SG. It is like saying lets play shump as a center to help him learn to rebound more.

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:I wouldn't say THJ took bad shots. I saw one that he shouldn't have put up at all. He was wide open and missed 2, but he could've drove on those very same shots.

SHump had some good plays and some bad, but overall I think he will eventually be much better running point.

CJ has talent, but needs to be a bit more aggressive.

Toure Murry looks pretty good as a defensive PG with a slick game, speed and finish around the basket.

Tyler is still a bit raw but you can see he has talent.

Vargas surprised me with his jumper.

McMorrow is HUGE and ready to bang. I'd consider him just off his raw size alone. GEEZ!

Agree with everything except Shump at the point, would rather we signed someone to fill that role and Shump worked on his game.

The Knicks will no doubt add another PG, but Shump is gonna have a bigger role in the rotation and it would be a big plus to have him improve his decision making and ball handling. You don't do that by not playing the point. You make him do it and get reps at game speed so he can get more comfortable. Then if he has the ball during the season he won't be scared to make a play.

Shump doesn't have to be a pure point. He needs to get good enough to be more of an asset with the ball in his hands. Someone who can make a play for others and keep the flow of the game going. It's a very smart thing to do with a guard you want to play major minutes for your team.

+100000

Great post, agreed, and on POINT

How was his speed, quickness, penetration, and DEFENSE?

On DEF, who did he defend mainly and could he stay in front of quicker guards and initiate it with pressure, allowing the team to play the passing lanes?

I am hoping he can return to his old self and HARASS opponents PGs with his size, strength, athleticism, and pressure them to making mistakes...

Didn't get to watch most of the game, thanks in advance for insight...