MSG3 wrote:

Dagger wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:We traded 3 draft picks for Bargs and asking for 12-14 points. Let me ask u something if u gave Copeland 28 minutes do u think he could score 12-14 points?

Well put, and Cope would play better (or less bad) defense.

I prefer Cope, but he's not giving any more on d than bargnani is. At least bargnani is a 7ft terrible defender.

Keeping Cope doesn't get rid of Novak's HORRIBLE contract.

Offering up 1-3 picks would

MSG3 wrote:

Dagger wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:We traded 3 draft picks for Bargs and asking for 12-14 points. Let me ask u something if u gave Copeland 28 minutes do u think he could score 12-14 points?

Well put, and Cope would play better (or less bad) defense.

I prefer Cope, but he's not giving any more on d than bargnani is. At least bargnani is a 7ft terrible defender.

Keeping Cope doesn't get rid of Novak's HORRIBLE contract.

Exactly. That was the primary (only?) reason to roll with Bargs over Cope. It certainly ain't about the scoring. Cope would bring similar level scoring in same mins. But one neg on Cope: Slow as molasses.

Still, VERy worthwhile to dump the bad paper on Novak.

Dagger wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:We traded 3 draft picks for Bargs and asking for 12-14 points. Let me ask u something if u gave Copeland 28 minutes do u think he could score 12-14 points?

Well put, and Cope would play better (or less bad) defense.

I prefer Cope, but he's not giving any more on d than bargnani is. At least bargnani is a 7ft terrible defender.

I could post all the numbers but the short answer is that none of them support what you said

MSG3 wrote:

3G4G wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

Dagger wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:We traded 3 draft picks for Bargs and asking for 12-14 points. Let me ask u something if u gave Copeland 28 minutes do u think he could score 12-14 points?

Well put, and Cope would play better (or less bad) defense.

I prefer Cope, but he's not giving any more on d than bargnani is. At least bargnani is a 7ft terrible defender.

Keeping Cope doesn't get rid of Novak's HORRIBLE contract.

Offering up 1-3 picks would

It's fair to complain about the draft picks being sent in almost every deal we make. I won't argue that. It depends on whether you think rebuilding through free agency is a good strategy. My biggest problem was clearing all that room for 2015 and then giving JR a 4 yr deal. But I guess Grunwald thinks they can be competitive until 2015 and trade JR if they need space in free agency.

the other part is the leverage that JR has. He just played for the Knicks for a year and a half at a deep discount, so maybe he wants more than 2. So is $6M per fair market value or is it low/high?

Another thing to consider is what would JR's price (and cap hold) be 2 years from now in the 2015 year. If you think $6M is fair value, then so will other teams and he is tradable 2 years down the road. On a 2 year deal JR's cap hold is MUCH bigger limiting the Knicks as to what they can do, so perhaps locking him in a a good thing.

Obviously clearing cap space is a priority if you are targeting free agents in a particular year, but so is having a few guys on the squad at low, low prices or at very reasonable prices. 2010 Miami doesn't get anywhere without Haslem, Joel Anthony, Mike Miller and Chalmers. James Jones was also kept but at much lower price I think.

Recall that Miami had to GIVE away #2 pick Beasley at the last minute, and I think this was before he was really really exposed as worthless.

jrodmc wrote:The outlook of some fans on here is amusing.

29 win seasons? No playoffs! Look to the future! Watch the yoots! Basketball, the way it was meant to be! Stick to the patient plan, Donnie, we're behind you all the way! Hand me another 40 ounce of that Cap space, yoot potenshull draft pick 3-year-long, hard-on Kool Aid! Every season is another season to speculate and fantasy league play with yourself to your heart's delight! Internet GM wannabes, UK is the place to be!

Playoffs? 50 win season? 8-0 starts? 14 game winning streaks? Division title? Second round? Scoring Champion? DPOY? SMOTY? Old grungy Knicks returning to the fold to inspirate and perspirate at a key point in the season? JR game winners? Melo 40 points? Grunnie giving Woody old BenGay duct tape and MetalStapledHeads to hold it together?
All Loser's Homer Kool Aid! Don't be fooled! Haven't you heard? Have you not been told? Real basketball is going to continually be played on 20# bond paper at a third rate ABA franchise near you! Or maybe near Colorado! Or even Go West young man, that's where they play real basketball all year long!

Why all the trolling?

Nalod wrote:

djsunyc wrote:nothing wrong with drinking the kool-aid. you kind of have to as a fan of the knicks

with that said, 50+ games will be tough to achieve. i think everything went right for y'all last year and you got to 54. i think this year, there is more pressure and less leadership from the point (as of today's roster).

plus marv is a super knicks homer and i want him to suffer.

Went right:

1. Boston (many feared) fell apart.
2. Sixers year before had been very improved, last year the Bynum trade killed them.
3. Wiz by seasons end was a pretty good team, but first half were doormats and was an easy win.
4. We caught Heat with pants down early in season twice.
5. JR in contract year stepped up in regular season.
6. Kidd played way above expectations in the first two months. Shump came back to finish season strong.
7. Cope.
8. Indy faultered giving us 2nd seed.
9. Rose never returned.
10. Toronto was improved but never played to it.
11, Nets did not play up to on paper talent.
12 Kmart gave us a huge unexpected boost!
13. Sheed helped us win some games we might not have early on!
13. The Brotherhood of man between JR, Melo and Woodson was a nice Bromance!

Every sesaon has its ebbs and flows but ours to some extent worked out better despite injuries to role players. DJ is right that things worked well and one cannot count them going forward.

Its possible next years knick team is better but improvements by others will make some wins toughter to obtain.

Boston, philly and Toronto might be easy wins but Wiz, bobcats, Clev and Chicago get better.

Nets are better too. How much? Don't know, but they are.

Dagger wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:We traded 3 draft picks for Bargs and asking for 12-14 points. Let me ask u something if u gave Copeland 28 minutes do u think he could score 12-14 points?

Well put, and Cope would play better (or less bad) defense.

I prefer Cope, but he's not giving any more on d than bargnani is. At least bargnani is a 7ft terrible defender.

CrushAlot wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:We traded 3 draft picks for Bargs and asking for 12-14 points. Let me ask u something if u gave Copeland 28 minutes do u think he could score 12-14 points?

The 2014 second rounder is projected to be the second to last pick, #59, in next years draft. I am not going to sweat that one. The biggest asset given up was the 2016 first round pick that is compromised because Denver holds the right to swap with the Knicks. Holding out hope that the Knicks find a gem in the second round 4 years from now when Carmelo is 33 seems a bit silly so I don't think the 2017 second rounder is that valuable when you get a former number one overall pick who is just 27 and coming off two injury plagued seasons. In my opinion the Knicks won this trade. Bargs and Toronto was not working. Knicks caught a break in my opinion.

Crush ist's not always about where the pick lands, it's about having the assets to possibly use in a deal more favorable down the road. Take for instance what if we see a Shumpert type talent in the 2014 draft 1st round and it would take 2 2nd round picks and Cash to move into the 1st round?

tkf wrote:

3G4G wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:We traded 3 draft picks for Bargs and asking for 12-14 points. Let me ask u something if u gave Copeland 28 minutes do u think he could score 12-14 points?

The 2014 second rounder is projected to be the second to last pick, #59, in next years draft. I am not going to sweat that one. The biggest asset given up was the 2016 first round pick that is compromised because Denver holds the right to swap with the Knicks. Holding out hope that the Knicks find a gem in the second round 4 years from now when Carmelo is 33 seems a bit silly so I don't think the 2017 second rounder is that valuable when you get a former number one overall pick who is just 27 and coming off two injury plagued seasons. In my opinion the Knicks won this trade. Bargs and Toronto was not working. Knicks caught a break in my opinion.

Crush ist's not always about where the pick lands, it's about having the assets to possibly use in a deal more favorable down the road. Take for instance what if we see a Shumpert type talent in the 2014 draft 1st round and it would take 2 2nd round picks and Cash to move into the 1st round?

yea, now the talk is to downplay the picks, and talk up how much of a break we got in this trade... I just don't get the short sighted views around here...

first copeland is a Gem, and according to a few him not playing is a reason why we lost to the pacers.. crazy as it sounds, it was mentioned..

now copeland is gone, good riddance.. he is one dimensional and has tunnel vision.. now this may be true, you and I were saying that.. but that was not the talk on this forum when it came to copeland..

move forward to the trade, we now have the scoring option, running buddy to carmelo.. LOL.. a guy who can give us 12-14ppg... well wasn't that well withing copeland to give us that if he got playing time.. I mean both he and bars are one dimensional players.. the difference is, copeland would have not cost us picks..

I used the terms tunnel vision but I'm not wishy washy when it comes to former Knicks like gall Wilson and lin

BARGNANI is light yrs better than 30yr old Copeland will ever be. That is just fact. But you are right the wishy washiness drives me up the wall as well

jrodmc wrote:The outlook of some fans on here is amusing.

29 win seasons? No playoffs! Look to the future! Watch the yoots! Basketball, the way it was meant to be! Stick to the patient plan, Donnie, we're behind you all the way! Hand me another 40 ounce of that Cap space, yoot potenshull draft pick 3-year-long, hard-on Kool Aid! Every season is another season to speculate and fantasy league play with yourself to your heart's delight! Internet GM wannabes, UK is the place to be!

Playoffs? 50 win season? 8-0 starts? 14 game winning streaks? Division title? Second round? Scoring Champion? DPOY? SMOTY? Old grungy Knicks returning to the fold to inspirate and perspirate at a key point in the season? JR game winners? Melo 40 points? Grunnie giving Woody old BenGay duct tape and MetalStapledHeads to hold it together?
All Loser's Homer Kool Aid! Don't be fooled! Haven't you heard? Have you not been told? Real basketball is going to continually be played on 20# bond paper at a third rate ABA franchise near you! Or maybe near Colorado! Or even Go West young man, that's where they play real basketball all year long!

jrodmc - we have a 6'9 gazelle from NC State, who should be playing with the edge of a dude picked last in a pickup game.

We also have a division 3 extra long shot with something to prove to himself and his Farmingdale homeboys.

We have a junior Hardaway and a junior Smith. Make that TWO Smiths, one we know who can play as good as he wants. The brother is an early candidate for some nice parting gifts.

We lost a sniper, a fragile center, Sheed, heart and soul man Kurt Thomas... And gained a distraction from Italy, to dissuade defenses from stalking Carmelo like Trayvon Martin. (Yeah, I said it)

The Knicks are changing, but our core players remain the same. That is a good thing.

Let it play.

tkf wrote:

3G4G wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:We traded 3 draft picks for Bargs and asking for 12-14 points. Let me ask u something if u gave Copeland 28 minutes do u think he could score 12-14 points?

The 2014 second rounder is projected to be the second to last pick, #59, in next years draft. I am not going to sweat that one. The biggest asset given up was the 2016 first round pick that is compromised because Denver holds the right to swap with the Knicks. Holding out hope that the Knicks find a gem in the second round 4 years from now when Carmelo is 33 seems a bit silly so I don't think the 2017 second rounder is that valuable when you get a former number one overall pick who is just 27 and coming off two injury plagued seasons. In my opinion the Knicks won this trade. Bargs and Toronto was not working. Knicks caught a break in my opinion.

Crush ist's not always about where the pick lands, it's about having the assets to possibly use in a deal more favorable down the road. Take for instance what if we see a Shumpert type talent in the 2014 draft 1st round and it would take 2 2nd round picks and Cash to move into the 1st round?

yea, now the talk is to downplay the picks, and talk up how much of a break we got in this trade... I just don't get the short sighted views around here...

first copeland is a Gem, and according to a few him not playing is a reason why we lost to the pacers.. crazy as it sounds, it was mentioned..

now copeland is gone, good riddance.. he is one dimensional and has tunnel vision.. now this may be true, you and I were saying that.. but that was not the talk on this forum when it came to copeland..

move forward to the trade, we now have the scoring option, running buddy to carmelo.. LOL.. a guy who can give us 12-14ppg... well wasn't that well withing copeland to give us that if he got playing time.. I mean both he and bars are one dimensional players.. the difference is, copeland would have not cost us picks..

Nor would Cope have compounded our Tax Situation. Now we won't be able to execute S&T's next year...remember how we always speak about "OPTIONS"?....

Every chance we get, to lesser ours.... we don't hesitate at all to do so.

Yeah the picks don't matter now, although THJR and Shump are studs in the making. 2014(reported early as being deep) will be irrelevant but come 2015 when we have our pick assuming it hasn't been traded......no matter where it ends up will be more valuable to us than the team who has the #1 overall that year.

Knicks rationale.....consistently, emotionally, illogically, BIZARRE