knickstorrents wrote:Melo probably isn't thinking, which is a big part of the problem. Or he's just asking to get better players around him, but not taking into account the mess he helped create.

I don't blame Amare for this at all. He played his heart out for us, he came when no one else came, and he has been trying to improve during the off season. We also signed him outright as a free agent. He did much less harm to the Knicks than Melo has.

Jmpasq wrote:I will hate Melo forever if he takes less money to play somewhere else after he gutted this team. He can start making things right by taking a friendly deal here instead of LA.I was hoping Kobe got amnestied I thought it was a real likelihood he would of come here.Kobe is about his legacy and winning. A championship here would be worth more then 1 more in LA.

Melo is going to get a max deal when the time comes, either by opting out or signing an extension at the end of this season. What exactly is a friendly deal anyway? A friendly deal like CP3 just signed with the Clippers?

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I hate to say it but we are stuck in mud. Part maybe because of the way we got Melo and the Amare injury. I wonder what he thinks about what almost every team is doing in the east getting better and us we let our arch enemy steal Copeland without putting up a fight. If we suck this coming season I can maybe see Melo leaving. I now feel that getting Amear for that amount of money was crazy. He would have signed for 4 years. We always over pay for talent. The next 2 years will tell us what Melo is made of. Does he lead the Knicks to the promised land or will he bounce. only time will tell.

i AM NOT trying to be a jerk, so forgive me...

First of all, carmelo is the main contributor in this mess. I don't expect him to lead anything. He is not capable... some of you wonder why some of us may have a negative attitude. It is because we seem to be stuck with the same mindset.. Depending on a career loser to do something he has never done.. "lead". and we have thread, after thread, after thread..

Instead, I have been doing some research on this guy CJ leslie, now maybe there is a thread on him, and I plan to go spend some time there.. but I am more interested in guys like him. Hoping we found a nice piece on the cheap. And if so, how can we continue doing so going forward.. Because with no picks, and no youth, we are going to have to do more of this.

One way to get out of the mud is to find some good, young, cheap talent, trade this old, overpaid dead weight we have... and build a team, around a coach, who has a solid philosophy... so that means, bye woodson, by carmelo, by chandler, amare, felton and last but not least, JR smith and bargnani...

sorry didn't mean to hijack the thread papa bear.. but this seems like the same old stuff we keep discussing over and over again.."who can carmelo join forces with", "get carmelo help", "can carmelo lead us", "Save us carmelo", "it's not his fault","drink the kool-aid"... etc..

really how is any of this promoting healthy conversation for both sides of the argument?

loweyecue wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:He's probably thinking:

"Hey, Dwight signed as a Free Agent and did't rip Houston of assets. Maybe all those fans who said I should have done the same were on to something???"

Nope, that would require retrospection, Melo is thinking about how to make sure he can get 25MM a year for his next 5 year contract.

exactly...

Nalod wrote:The CAA thing has to come into play at some point.

Melo came here for the long term and Knicks prostituted themselves for CAA. Time for them to deliver.

Who are their clients and then look at that list.

Dolan will pay taxes so its not money.

There is the CBA to contend with and thats changed things a bit.

Lets not be naive here, melo and his people are in on most moves and likely were advised on the Barg's trade and approaved JR's return.

Im not sweating him to the lakers as their situation in the present form is not that great. Things change, trades are made and teams turn quickly. Look at boston? Look at Rockets. They were a lottery team two days before the season opened and then made the Harden trade and got into the playoffs. My guess they can be a top 4 seed in the west. Worst to first in two seasons. LIke the NFL.

I don't know about Lakers draft picks (assets to trade) but I know our assets are limited. JR and Bargs if healthy are both good assets if need be. Amare after this season could be moved. Things happen. For the Lakes also.

Its a chess game and we like to plot all the moves. Have to plot your opponents moves as well. Most of us don't.

So it is not an accident they are in a good place now.. it was just matter of time.. Things tend to turn quickly and in your favor if you develop good habits and conduct your business in a professional manner...

tkf wrote:

Vmart wrote:First of all you need to get that Promise land out of here. Melo will get this team into the playoffs year in and year out. But winning a championship is not going to happen, this is the Knicks and they will never build for the championship. Besides the Knicks can't beat the Heat and the Heat have it locked up. So winning a championship isn't an option here just keeping fan base happy by winning 50 games is what the Knicks have always been about. This was evident in the Ewing years and now the Melo years. Ewing joined the Knicks with dead horse in King and Melo joins with a dead horse in Amare. It's history repeating all over again.

difference is, Ewing and the knicks had some good teams.. Ewing had X man, Wilkins, jackson, strickland, oak, mason, LJ, there were LEGIT opportunities for Ewing and the knicks to win.. But the east and NBA was loaded then. Not just Boston, But detroit, Cavs were good, pacers, and of course MJ and the bulls..

Today you can build a team that can beat the heat, they are good, but they are not a "super team".. The pacers are very close.. the knicks could have been there, but we love to cut corners...

Are you retelling history or rewriting it?? Xman was here 1 yr and left because Knicks f'd up his contract situation. Strickland was never given a fair chance to play by Pitino and was traded. Maybe if Strickland played his entire career here things would have been different. No one can deny that Ewing never had a 2nd offensive star with him his whole career.

tkf wrote:

Vmart wrote:First of all you need to get that Promise land out of here. Melo will get this team into the playoffs year in and year out. But winning a championship is not going to happen, this is the Knicks and they will never build for the championship. Besides the Knicks can't beat the Heat and the Heat have it locked up. So winning a championship isn't an option here just keeping fan base happy by winning 50 games is what the Knicks have always been about. This was evident in the Ewing years and now the Melo years. Ewing joined the Knicks with dead horse in King and Melo joins with a dead horse in Amare. It's history repeating all over again.

difference is, Ewing and the knicks had some good teams.. Ewing had X man, Wilkins, jackson, strickland, oak, mason, LJ, there were LEGIT opportunities for Ewing and the knicks to win.. But the east and NBA was loaded then. Not just Boston, But detroit, Cavs were good, pacers, and of course MJ and the bulls..

Today you can build a team that can beat the heat, they are good, but they are not a "super team".. The pacers are very close.. the knicks could have been there, but we love to cut corners...

You would have said the same about the Bulls in the playoffs they to struggled at times only to win the series, just as the Heat struggled. When ever the Heat needed the win similar to the Bulls they were able to win. Knicks don't have a chance in hell for a championship I don't see a championship coming in my life time. Maybe a tease here or there but that's it.

Nalod wrote:

tkf wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I hate to say it but we are stuck in mud. Part maybe because of the way we got Melo and the Amare injury. I wonder what he thinks about what almost every team is doing in the east getting better and us we let our arch enemy steal Copeland without putting up a fight. If we suck this coming season I can maybe see Melo leaving. I now feel that getting Amear for that amount of money was crazy. He would have signed for 4 years. We always over pay for talent. The next 2 years will tell us what Melo is made of. Does he lead the Knicks to the promised land or will he bounce. only time will tell.

i AM NOT trying to be a jerk, so forgive me...

First of all, carmelo is the main contributor in this mess. I don't expect him to lead anything. He is not capable... some of you wonder why some of us may have a negative attitude. It is because we seem to be stuck with the same mindset.. Depending on a career loser to do something he has never done.. "lead". and we have thread, after thread, after thread..

Instead, I have been doing some research on this guy CJ leslie, now maybe there is a thread on him, and I plan to go spend some time there.. but I am more interested in guys like him. Hoping we found a nice piece on the cheap. And if so, how can we continue doing so going forward.. Because with no picks, and no youth, we are going to have to do more of this.

One way to get out of the mud is to find some good, young, cheap talent, trade this old, overpaid dead weight we have... and build a team, around a coach, who has a solid philosophy... so that means, bye woodson, by carmelo, by chandler, amare, felton and last but not least, JR smith and bargnani...

sorry didn't mean to hijack the thread papa bear.. but this seems like the same old stuff we keep discussing over and over again.."who can carmelo join forces with", "get carmelo help", "can carmelo lead us", "Save us carmelo", "it's not his fault","drink the kool-aid"... etc..

really how is any of this promoting healthy conversation for both sides of the argument?

It is far safer for fans and the team to embrace the MeloLove. Fans will root for him. They love to see him score 35 pts and for many thats enough. Many posters follow this. Not saying one type of fan is better than another. Its just what it is. Starphuching works and in NYC you have to have starpower to draw viewership. Same for LA! They have just been much better at it for a long time.

Melo did not create this "mess", its how we play the game in NYC. Its funny becuase the last two MVP's and two biggest stars are Lebron and Durant who got huge out of Cleveland and OKC. Goes to show that NYC ass a global launching pad is not what it used to be. We not talking Oscar Robertson stranded in Cincinatti on a bad team in the 1960's! Yao Ming did not need San Francisco or NYC to be the big deal he was as Houstan was just fine. Internet and global TV did it.

I don't know Melo's reasons outside of what we have read for being in NY. LA LA had a lot to do with it. Melo lives in LA in the off season, so does Dwight, Pierce, KG and im sure many others. LA LA has her TV show and her cosmetics line thru Market America in Greensboro, NC. The Company public relations activities run mostly in NYC and Miami.

UKers mostly want to win. There are the Homers who see Melo as the way to a chip and Haters who see the starphuch as very limited.

I don't hate but I don't think our current path is the one with the biggest upside. Its the safest way to keep fans interested and if so keeps the revenue streaming.

The internet I am sure has a lot to do with these small market stars getting as much shine as they would in any big city. The internet has changed the game..

I don't hate but I don't think our current path is the one with the biggest upside. Its the safest way to keep fans interested and if so keeps the revenue streaming.

I hate it because it is shortsighted and not fun at all to watch... I remember when we had pitino as head coach, and we played that trapping and pressing, and high paced running style.. i was finishing HS then, but I was smart enough to know that style, although fun to watch, was not one that would win a ring at that time... but it was exciting as hell to watch at least..

The current dump the ball into carmelo as he imitates, dancing with the stars, is the most boring thing I have seen in decades, and I mean that wholeheartedly..

BigRedDog wrote:

tkf wrote:

Vmart wrote:First of all you need to get that Promise land out of here. Melo will get this team into the playoffs year in and year out. But winning a championship is not going to happen, this is the Knicks and they will never build for the championship. Besides the Knicks can't beat the Heat and the Heat have it locked up. So winning a championship isn't an option here just keeping fan base happy by winning 50 games is what the Knicks have always been about. This was evident in the Ewing years and now the Melo years. Ewing joined the Knicks with dead horse in King and Melo joins with a dead horse in Amare. It's history repeating all over again.

difference is, Ewing and the knicks had some good teams.. Ewing had X man, Wilkins, jackson, strickland, oak, mason, LJ, there were LEGIT opportunities for Ewing and the knicks to win.. But the east and NBA was loaded then. Not just Boston, But detroit, Cavs were good, pacers, and of course MJ and the bulls..

Today you can build a team that can beat the heat, they are good, but they are not a "super team".. The pacers are very close.. the knicks could have been there, but we love to cut corners...

Are you retelling history or rewriting it?? Xman was here 1 yr and left because Knicks f'd up his contract situation. Strickland was never given a fair chance to play by Pitino and was traded. Maybe if Strickland played his entire career here things would have been different. No one can deny that Ewing never had a 2nd offensive star with him his whole career.

did those guys play with ewing or not? I thought they did.. I don't get your point here, I am highlighting the various teams and players that ewing played with.. How long they were here and their contract situation is irrelevant...

No one can deny that Ewing never had a 2nd offensive star with him his whole career.

knicks were a defensive team... And Ewing had enough offensive help, they could have beaten the rockets, but starks fizzled and Ewing was outplayed by Hakeem. MJ denied Ewing plenty of times... Ewing didn't lose because of lack of another offensive player, he lost because he faced some of the best teams in NBA history...

they had a great chance to beat houston, Derek harper gave them some spirited performances...

Even when Don nelson came aboard and tried to change up the offensive phiolosphy, Ewing didn't like it at all.. maybe he wasn't willing or ready to share the offensive spotlight..

Vmart wrote:

tkf wrote:

Vmart wrote:First of all you need to get that Promise land out of here. Melo will get this team into the playoffs year in and year out. But winning a championship is not going to happen, this is the Knicks and they will never build for the championship. Besides the Knicks can't beat the Heat and the Heat have it locked up. So winning a championship isn't an option here just keeping fan base happy by winning 50 games is what the Knicks have always been about. This was evident in the Ewing years and now the Melo years. Ewing joined the Knicks with dead horse in King and Melo joins with a dead horse in Amare. It's history repeating all over again.

difference is, Ewing and the knicks had some good teams.. Ewing had X man, Wilkins, jackson, strickland, oak, mason, LJ, there were LEGIT opportunities for Ewing and the knicks to win.. But the east and NBA was loaded then. Not just Boston, But detroit, Cavs were good, pacers, and of course MJ and the bulls..

Today you can build a team that can beat the heat, they are good, but they are not a "super team".. The pacers are very close.. the knicks could have been there, but we love to cut corners...

You would have said the same about the Bulls in the playoffs they to struggled at times only to win the series, just as the Heat struggled. When ever the Heat needed the win similar to the Bulls they were able to win. Knicks don't have a chance in hell for a championship I don't see a championship coming in my life time. Maybe a tease here or there but that's it.

you may be right, but as of now, we are not going to win, not because the heat are too good.. the knicks are just not good enough and smart enough... The heat can be beat... I think the pacers are on that path...