Vmart wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Panos wrote:

Vmart wrote:Probably in bed with the flu.

Typhoid Chandler.

LOL I like that 1

That is pretty good.

The motion is seconded. Chandler's first name shall henceforth be Typhoid!

MinsHeartsReezy wrote:

Markji wrote:Some of you guys are too brutal. I am very happy we have Tyson. For years most people on this site pined for a defensive center. We got Tyson Chandler who had just won a ring with the Dallas Mavericks. He then wins defensive player of the year 2012; then this past year, 2012-13 he makes 1st team all defense and the All-Star team. And we won 54 games. And you all aren't satisfied???

We should keep Chandler. No trades. He played hurt at the end of the year. Other Knicks also played like crap in the playoffs. Get over it and move on.

I think it's fair to expect Tyson to develop an all around game. The impact he has on the defensive end on our team is irrefutable....but right now we need him to develop an offensive skill set to at least counter somewhat the production by the opposing team was at his position. Maybe if he had a few reliable post moves such that he is an actual threat to score maybe we'd get a few more open looks for our perimeter guys. To have any hope of making it to the ECF we need our center to be able to make a few plays in the paint....especially when we go cold like we did in th last playoff series. And it's fair to question why our starting center isn't working on improving his weaknesses. He and Bargnani should be out there with Melo and Amare. Now if you could fuse Amare and Tyson's skill sets...that would be ideal but we can't and Tyson is the only one who has been able to stay relatively healthy so it's up to him to take the initiative.

Bottom line is that he has a $55million dollar contract. He played well in the regular season but twice now in th playoffs he wasnt able to stay healthy and when he was healthy he was unable to make an impact. Tyson's getting the third highest paycheck on our roster and its because of the credentials he has earned that we expect more of him. Melo doesn't ever get a pass, why should Tyson. Also, he needs to voice his concerns to the locker room, not the media. I don't ever want to put up with poisonous media circus we faced in the Larry Brown days....the media make up enough drama as it is.

Tyson's pluses - has excellent hands and is excellent in the PnR and finishing alley-oops. His turnovers are minimal. Last year 1.3 TO in 66 games - 33 min/game. To compare that with other top centers - Noah had 2.7 TO/game in 66 games 37 min/game; and Dwight Howard had 3.0 TO in 36 min/game.

GustavBahler wrote:

Markji wrote:

MinsHeartsReezy wrote:

Markji wrote:Some of you guys are too brutal. I am very happy we have Tyson. For years most people on this site pined for a defensive center. We got Tyson Chandler who had just won a ring with the Dallas Mavericks. He then wins defensive player of the year 2012; then this past year, 2012-13 he makes 1st team all defense and the All-Star team. And we won 54 games. And you all aren't satisfied???

We should keep Chandler. No trades. He played hurt at the end of the year. Other Knicks also played like crap in the playoffs. Get over it and move on.

I think it's fair to expect Tyson to develop an all around game. The impact he has on the defensive end on our team is irrefutable....but right now we need him to develop an offensive skill set to at least counter somewhat the production by the opposing team was at his position. Maybe if he had a few reliable post moves such that he is an actual threat to score maybe we'd get a few more open looks for our perimeter guys. To have any hope of making it to the ECF we need our center to be able to make a few plays in the paint....especially when we go cold like we did in th last playoff series. And it's fair to question why our starting center isn't working on improving his weaknesses. He and Bargnani should be out there with Melo and Amare. Now if you could fuse Amare and Tyson's skill sets...that would be ideal but we can't and Tyson is the only one who has been able to stay relatively healthy so it's up to him to take the initiative.

Bottom line is that he has a $55million dollar contract. He played well in the regular season but twice now in th playoffs he wasnt able to stay healthy and when he was healthy he was unable to make an impact. Tyson's getting the third highest paycheck on our roster and its because of the credentials he has earned that we expect more of him. Melo doesn't ever get a pass, why should Tyson. Also, he needs to voice his concerns to the locker room, not the media. I don't ever want to put up with poisonous media circus we faced in the Larry Brown days....the media make up enough drama as it is.

I don't disagree that it would be great if Tyson developed a strong offensive game. He doesn't have a jump shot and he doesn't have quick post-up moves. He is 7'1" so he does his best work up in the air, over the basket. Perhaps Tyson could work on a sky-hook. That might work. But remember, he has been in the league for 11 years so it's not likely he will all of a sudden develop a great shot. I'm sure he has worked on his offensive game but Tyson is what he is. Be happy with what we have. It could always be a lot worse.

Tyson's pluses - has excellent hands and is excellent in the PnR and finishing alley-oops. His turnovers are minimal. Last year 1.3 TO in 66 games - 33 min/game. To compare that with other top centers - Noah had 2.7 TO/game in 66 games 37 min/game; and Dwight Howard had 3.0 TO in 36 min/game.

Chandler has fewer FG attemtps on average, he's touching the ball less than the other names you mentioned, so its no surprise that he would have fewer turnovers.

Chandler is what he is. But better yet, he knows what he is and what his role is.

GustavBahler wrote:

Markji wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Markji wrote:

MinsHeartsReezy wrote:

Markji wrote:Some of you guys are too brutal. I am very happy we have Tyson. For years most people on this site pined for a defensive center. We got Tyson Chandler who had just won a ring with the Dallas Mavericks. He then wins defensive player of the year 2012; then this past year, 2012-13 he makes 1st team all defense and the All-Star team. And we won 54 games. And you all aren't satisfied???

We should keep Chandler. No trades. He played hurt at the end of the year. Other Knicks also played like crap in the playoffs. Get over it and move on.

I think it's fair to expect Tyson to develop an all around game. The impact he has on the defensive end on our team is irrefutable....but right now we need him to develop an offensive skill set to at least counter somewhat the production by the opposing team was at his position. Maybe if he had a few reliable post moves such that he is an actual threat to score maybe we'd get a few more open looks for our perimeter guys. To have any hope of making it to the ECF we need our center to be able to make a few plays in the paint....especially when we go cold like we did in th last playoff series. And it's fair to question why our starting center isn't working on improving his weaknesses. He and Bargnani should be out there with Melo and Amare. Now if you could fuse Amare and Tyson's skill sets...that would be ideal but we can't and Tyson is the only one who has been able to stay relatively healthy so it's up to him to take the initiative.

Bottom line is that he has a $55million dollar contract. He played well in the regular season but twice now in th playoffs he wasnt able to stay healthy and when he was healthy he was unable to make an impact. Tyson's getting the third highest paycheck on our roster and its because of the credentials he has earned that we expect more of him. Melo doesn't ever get a pass, why should Tyson. Also, he needs to voice his concerns to the locker room, not the media. I don't ever want to put up with poisonous media circus we faced in the Larry Brown days....the media make up enough drama as it is.

I don't disagree that it would be great if Tyson developed a strong offensive game. He doesn't have a jump shot and he doesn't have quick post-up moves. He is 7'1" so he does his best work up in the air, over the basket. Perhaps Tyson could work on a sky-hook. That might work. But remember, he has been in the league for 11 years so it's not likely he will all of a sudden develop a great shot. I'm sure he has worked on his offensive game but Tyson is what he is. Be happy with what we have. It could always be a lot worse.

Tyson's pluses - has excellent hands and is excellent in the PnR and finishing alley-oops. His turnovers are minimal. Last year 1.3 TO in 66 games - 33 min/game. To compare that with other top centers - Noah had 2.7 TO/game in 66 games 37 min/game; and Dwight Howard had 3.0 TO in 36 min/game.

Chandler has fewer FG attemtps on average, he's touching the ball less than the other names you mentioned, so its no surprise that he would have fewer turnovers.

That is a valid point. Chandler has fewer attempts (6.1) because he doen't take shots. He doesn't have a shot so not taking forced shots or chucking is another plus for Tyson. What that does is give him the 2nd best FG% at 63.8%. The only center beating that is DeAndre Jorden at 64.3% with 6.0 attempts . Dwight (max contract) Howard has 57.8%. Noah takes 9.5 FG attempts and shoots 48.1%.

Chandler is what he is. But better yet, he knows what he is and what his role is.

Chandler rarely (if ever) puts the ball on the floor, most of his points come from alley oops, putbacks, and pts (dunks) right under the basket. He takes less chances than the other players, but that's a double edged sword because it also means that less he is drawing less attention from defenders.

Chandler doesn't have to worry about getting double or triple teamed for the most part with his back to the basket because defenders know that he will almost always kick the ball out.

I understand that Chandler wasn't brought here for offense, but it doesn't mean that he shouldn't try to learn a post move or two. It would force the defense to pay more attention to him and free up some space for the shooters.

Like I said in another post, I will be happy if Chandler gets close to his DPOY year, but I do believe that he could help the team by expanding his game a little. What's the harm in trying?

Chandler (when healthy) draws more attention than you're acknowledging. His man is often unwilling to switch to a player penetrating because Chandler's one of the most effective alley-oop finishers in the game.

GustavBahler wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Markji wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Markji wrote:

MinsHeartsReezy wrote:

Markji wrote:Some of you guys are too brutal. I am very happy we have Tyson. For years most people on this site pined for a defensive center. We got Tyson Chandler who had just won a ring with the Dallas Mavericks. He then wins defensive player of the year 2012; then this past year, 2012-13 he makes 1st team all defense and the All-Star team. And we won 54 games. And you all aren't satisfied???

We should keep Chandler. No trades. He played hurt at the end of the year. Other Knicks also played like crap in the playoffs. Get over it and move on.

I think it's fair to expect Tyson to develop an all around game. The impact he has on the defensive end on our team is irrefutable....but right now we need him to develop an offensive skill set to at least counter somewhat the production by the opposing team was at his position. Maybe if he had a few reliable post moves such that he is an actual threat to score maybe we'd get a few more open looks for our perimeter guys. To have any hope of making it to the ECF we need our center to be able to make a few plays in the paint....especially when we go cold like we did in th last playoff series. And it's fair to question why our starting center isn't working on improving his weaknesses. He and Bargnani should be out there with Melo and Amare. Now if you could fuse Amare and Tyson's skill sets...that would be ideal but we can't and Tyson is the only one who has been able to stay relatively healthy so it's up to him to take the initiative.

Bottom line is that he has a $55million dollar contract. He played well in the regular season but twice now in th playoffs he wasnt able to stay healthy and when he was healthy he was unable to make an impact. Tyson's getting the third highest paycheck on our roster and its because of the credentials he has earned that we expect more of him. Melo doesn't ever get a pass, why should Tyson. Also, he needs to voice his concerns to the locker room, not the media. I don't ever want to put up with poisonous media circus we faced in the Larry Brown days....the media make up enough drama as it is.

I don't disagree that it would be great if Tyson developed a strong offensive game. He doesn't have a jump shot and he doesn't have quick post-up moves. He is 7'1" so he does his best work up in the air, over the basket. Perhaps Tyson could work on a sky-hook. That might work. But remember, he has been in the league for 11 years so it's not likely he will all of a sudden develop a great shot. I'm sure he has worked on his offensive game but Tyson is what he is. Be happy with what we have. It could always be a lot worse.

Tyson's pluses - has excellent hands and is excellent in the PnR and finishing alley-oops. His turnovers are minimal. Last year 1.3 TO in 66 games - 33 min/game. To compare that with other top centers - Noah had 2.7 TO/game in 66 games 37 min/game; and Dwight Howard had 3.0 TO in 36 min/game.

Chandler has fewer FG attemtps on average, he's touching the ball less than the other names you mentioned, so its no surprise that he would have fewer turnovers.

That is a valid point. Chandler has fewer attempts (6.1) because he doen't take shots. He doesn't have a shot so not taking forced shots or chucking is another plus for Tyson. What that does is give him the 2nd best FG% at 63.8%. The only center beating that is DeAndre Jorden at 64.3% with 6.0 attempts . Dwight (max contract) Howard has 57.8%. Noah takes 9.5 FG attempts and shoots 48.1%.

Chandler is what he is. But better yet, he knows what he is and what his role is.

Chandler rarely (if ever) puts the ball on the floor, most of his points come from alley oops, putbacks, and pts (dunks) right under the basket. He takes less chances than the other players, but that's a double edged sword because it also means that less he is drawing less attention from defenders.

Chandler doesn't have to worry about getting double or triple teamed for the most part with his back to the basket because defenders know that he will almost always kick the ball out.

I understand that Chandler wasn't brought here for offense, but it doesn't mean that he shouldn't try to learn a post move or two. It would force the defense to pay more attention to him and free up some space for the shooters.

Like I said in another post, I will be happy if Chandler gets close to his DPOY year, but I do believe that he could help the team by expanding his game a little. What's the harm in trying?

Chandler (when healthy) draws more attention than you're acknowledging. His man is often unwilling to switch to a player penetrating because Chandler's one of the most effective alley-oop finishers in the game.

Right you are Bonn, I mentioned that's Chandler's bread and butter. I would hope that a center standing near or under the rim wouldn't be left alone or he isn't worth his salt. If Tyson learns a post move or two he can either score, or draw a double team and kick out to a shooter. Its about giving the defense more to worry about and spreading themselves thin.

I agree with those who say that that sometimes we rely too much on Melo for scoring. When you have a center with limited offensive skills, the rest of the team has to pick up the slack, especially against top defenses. This would give us more scoring in the frontcourt, and a more balanced attack because we do rely too much on our 3pt shooting at times. Look what happened in the playoffs. A few effective post moves could make him a top ten center in scoring. Don't believe Tyson has ever done that.

I give Chandler full credit for knowing his limitations and playing within his skill set. Doesn't mean he can't try and expand it, that's what Melo and Stat are doing. Not sure why Tyson can't do the same. Like I said, just hoping at the very least Chandler can get back to where he was when he first got here, I can live with that.

Bonn1997 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Markji wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Markji wrote:

MinsHeartsReezy wrote:

Markji wrote:Some of you guys are too brutal. I am very happy we have Tyson. For years most people on this site pined for a defensive center. We got Tyson Chandler who had just won a ring with the Dallas Mavericks. He then wins defensive player of the year 2012; then this past year, 2012-13 he makes 1st team all defense and the All-Star team. And we won 54 games. And you all aren't satisfied???

We should keep Chandler. No trades. He played hurt at the end of the year. Other Knicks also played like crap in the playoffs. Get over it and move on.

I think it's fair to expect Tyson to develop an all around game. The impact he has on the defensive end on our team is irrefutable....but right now we need him to develop an offensive skill set to at least counter somewhat the production by the opposing team was at his position. Maybe if he had a few reliable post moves such that he is an actual threat to score maybe we'd get a few more open looks for our perimeter guys. To have any hope of making it to the ECF we need our center to be able to make a few plays in the paint....especially when we go cold like we did in th last playoff series. And it's fair to question why our starting center isn't working on improving his weaknesses. He and Bargnani should be out there with Melo and Amare. Now if you could fuse Amare and Tyson's skill sets...that would be ideal but we can't and Tyson is the only one who has been able to stay relatively healthy so it's up to him to take the initiative.

Bottom line is that he has a $55million dollar contract. He played well in the regular season but twice now in th playoffs he wasnt able to stay healthy and when he was healthy he was unable to make an impact. Tyson's getting the third highest paycheck on our roster and its because of the credentials he has earned that we expect more of him. Melo doesn't ever get a pass, why should Tyson. Also, he needs to voice his concerns to the locker room, not the media. I don't ever want to put up with poisonous media circus we faced in the Larry Brown days....the media make up enough drama as it is.

I don't disagree that it would be great if Tyson developed a strong offensive game. He doesn't have a jump shot and he doesn't have quick post-up moves. He is 7'1" so he does his best work up in the air, over the basket. Perhaps Tyson could work on a sky-hook. That might work. But remember, he has been in the league for 11 years so it's not likely he will all of a sudden develop a great shot. I'm sure he has worked on his offensive game but Tyson is what he is. Be happy with what we have. It could always be a lot worse.

Tyson's pluses - has excellent hands and is excellent in the PnR and finishing alley-oops. His turnovers are minimal. Last year 1.3 TO in 66 games - 33 min/game. To compare that with other top centers - Noah had 2.7 TO/game in 66 games 37 min/game; and Dwight Howard had 3.0 TO in 36 min/game.

Chandler has fewer FG attemtps on average, he's touching the ball less than the other names you mentioned, so its no surprise that he would have fewer turnovers.

That is a valid point. Chandler has fewer attempts (6.1) because he doen't take shots. He doesn't have a shot so not taking forced shots or chucking is another plus for Tyson. What that does is give him the 2nd best FG% at 63.8%. The only center beating that is DeAndre Jorden at 64.3% with 6.0 attempts . Dwight (max contract) Howard has 57.8%. Noah takes 9.5 FG attempts and shoots 48.1%.

Chandler is what he is. But better yet, he knows what he is and what his role is.

Chandler rarely (if ever) puts the ball on the floor, most of his points come from alley oops, putbacks, and pts (dunks) right under the basket. He takes less chances than the other players, but that's a double edged sword because it also means that less he is drawing less attention from defenders.

Chandler doesn't have to worry about getting double or triple teamed for the most part with his back to the basket because defenders know that he will almost always kick the ball out.

I understand that Chandler wasn't brought here for offense, but it doesn't mean that he shouldn't try to learn a post move or two. It would force the defense to pay more attention to him and free up some space for the shooters.

Like I said in another post, I will be happy if Chandler gets close to his DPOY year, but I do believe that he could help the team by expanding his game a little. What's the harm in trying?

Chandler (when healthy) draws more attention than you're acknowledging. His man is often unwilling to switch to a player penetrating because Chandler's one of the most effective alley-oop finishers in the game.

Right you are Bonn, I mentioned that's Chandler's bread and butter. I would hope that a center standing near or under the rim wouldn't be left alone or he isn't worth his salt. If Tyson learns a post move or two he can either score, or draw a double team and kick out to a shooter. Its about giving the defense more to worry about and spreading themselves thin.

I agree with those who say that that sometimes we rely too much on Melo for scoring. When you have a center with limited offensive skills, the rest of the team has to pick up the slack, especially against top defenses. This would give us more scoring in the frontcourt, and a more balanced attack because we do rely too much on our 3pt shooting at times. Look what happened in the playoffs. A few effective post moves could make him a top ten center in scoring. Don't believe Tyson has ever done that.

I give Chandler full credit for knowing his limitations and playing within his skill set. Doesn't mean he can't try and expand it, that's what Melo and Stat are doing. Not sure why Tyson can't do the same. Like I said, just hoping at the very least Chandler can get back to where he was when he first got here, I can live with that.

Fair enough. I'd like to see him expand his offensive game too.

loweyecue wrote:Has any player developed an offensive game this deep into their career? Are we asking for too much? Offense takes skill, skill that Tyson may not have. IDK if he can just go out and develop the skill.

Stat was showing some nice moves in the post in the limited time he was on the floor and I'm glad he's going back to learn more. Would like to see Tyson try to improve his game. If it isn't doable, then he should work on his midrange jumper. At least that will draw his defender away from the rim from time to time. Still want him working in the paint, for the most part.

loweyecue wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

loweyecue wrote:Has any player developed an offensive game this deep into their career? Are we asking for too much? Offense takes skill, skill that Tyson may not have. IDK if he can just go out and develop the skill.

Stat was showing some nice moves in the post in the limited time he was on the floor and I'm glad he's going back to learn more. Would like to see Tyson try to improve his game. If it isn't doable, then he should work on his midrange jumper. At least that will draw his defender away from the rim from time to time. Still want him working in the paint, for the most part.

To me it's still a skill issue. Amare already had the skills to play in the post he got help on refining them. Tyson doesn't have the skills at least I don't think he does. I woukd def like to see him hit the mid-range too.

That's quite possible. Still would like to see Chandler try. That's the only way we're going to find out, but it doesn't look like its in the cards. Just have to hope (yeah I said it ) that Chandler gets back to being the force that he was.

Also, he needs to get back to his defensive effectiveness. He was a below avg defender last year when players where near 5 ft of him and I believe the Knicks had a better rating with him off the floor. Tyson doesn't need to train with Hakeem he would be better training with Kareem or a more classic big.

If i was Woody I would set Tyson up with someone and tell him he will take on a bigger role. Tell JR he is going back to playing more off the ball. Tell Melo he is going to reduce his usage to 28-30%. Prigs to shoot more and practice finishing at the rim.

yellowboy90 wrote:Tyson had plenty skills he just has restricted his game as time passes. If you go back to his chicago days you can see he did more. However due to injuries and skiles he started to narrow his game. He used to shoot more jumpers but even that has stopped. Tyson was really supposed to be more than this coming out of H.S. but it is what it is. He has become a great screener and role man who finishes the alley. However passes below his shoulders he struggles with and he also hurts offenses due to his limited role. I can not think of another big man who can't exploit being defended by a guard in the post. Many big men in this league do what Tyson does but because they post and shoot jumpers their efficiency drops but there effectiveness increases. Look at most centers FG% at the rim and you'll see it is up there with Tyson and some cases way higher.

Also, he needs to get back to his defensive effectiveness. He was a below avg defender last year when players where near 5 ft of him and I believe the Knicks had a better rating with him off the floor. Tyson doesn't need to train with Hakeem he would be better training with Kareem or a more classic big.

If i was Woody I would set Tyson up with someone and tell him he will take on a bigger role. Tell JR he is going back to playing more off the ball. Tell Melo he is going to reduce his usage to 28-30%. Prigs to shoot more and practice finishing at the rim.

I don't remember Tyson having anything resembling a post game, thought that was the knock on him coming in. I think he did shoot more in the early days though. Time for Tyson to dust off that midrange jumper, at least once in a while. Chandler can't exploit being guarded by a 1 or 2 in the post, more than likely because he doesn't have the skills to do so.

Either Kareem or Hakeem would be good to work with, they both could help him with his footwork and playing with his back to the basket. You're right though that expecting the dream shake out of him would be a bit much. An up and under move would be a big help.