GustavBahler wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I don't think he walks. My concern is that he comes back and is a starter. JR is not reliable enough to be your second option. Sixth man suits him and you play him with the knowledge that he might not heat up some nights. Bargs needs to be the second option and Smith needs to be the sixth man. He has too much talent and the Knicks can't use his salary on anyone else so I think they have to find away to get him back. He is too much of a wild card to be the starting two guard though.

I hope JR doesn't include starting as part of the deal for his coming back. Smith might argue that he's taking less money so the Knicks should do something in return. Hope it doesn't happen for the reasons you listed. The more balanced a scoring attack we have the less we will be putting the team's fortunes on whether or not JR can keep it together.

I'd bite the bullet and let him start if that is what it takes to keep him. He's too good a value player to let him walk over trivial stuff like that. Especially with him under contract, we can bench him later in the season for "team chemistry". If he becomes a problem, trade him for some assets. Problem solved

VCoug wrote:Other teams can't sign and trade free agents here. Probably. We can definitely sign and trade our own free agents to other teams. We won't know for sure if we can or can't get players in sign and trades until the NBA releases the cap number for 2013-14. Also, we'll have to wait until the Bargnani trade is finalized on the 10th so we know what our cap number is. If we're $4M or more above the luxury tax we can't get a player in a sign and trade.

Does that apron figure include cap holds or simply the players we have under contract? How much is it for the rights to a 2nd round pick as opposed to a vacant roster spot? If I'm not mistaken, the former is the cheaper of the two, which is yet another reason we should've bought picks anywhere in the draft to maximize our ability for a sign and trade

GustavBahler wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I don't think he walks. My concern is that he comes back and is a starter. JR is not reliable enough to be your second option. Sixth man suits him and you play him with the knowledge that he might not heat up some nights. Bargs needs to be the second option and Smith needs to be the sixth man. He has too much talent and the Knicks can't use his salary on anyone else so I think they have to find away to get him back. He is too much of a wild card to be the starting two guard though.

I hope JR doesn't include starting as part of the deal for his coming back. Smith might argue that he's taking less money so the Knicks should do something in return. Hope it doesn't happen for the reasons you listed. The more balanced a scoring attack we have the less we will be putting the team's fortunes on whether or not JR can keep it together.

I'd bite the bullet and let him start if that is what it takes to keep him. He's too good a value player to let him walk over trivial stuff like that. Especially with him under contract, we can bench him later in the season for "team chemistry". If he becomes a problem, trade him for some assets. Problem solved

Nothing trivial about who is in the starting lineup. There is a reason why JR has never been a starter in his career. The same reason he melted down in the playoffs. With JR on the bench Melo gets a chance to get going, then JR is brought in and takes over the offense when Melo sits, worked out great during the regular season. Don't want to mess up a good thing just to keep JR happy, not after the way the season ended.

NardDogNation wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I don't think he walks. My concern is that he comes back and is a starter. JR is not reliable enough to be your second option. Sixth man suits him and you play him with the knowledge that he might not heat up some nights. Bargs needs to be the second option and Smith needs to be the sixth man. He has too much talent and the Knicks can't use his salary on anyone else so I think they have to find away to get him back. He is too much of a wild card to be the starting two guard though.

I hope JR doesn't include starting as part of the deal for his coming back. Smith might argue that he's taking less money so the Knicks should do something in return. Hope it doesn't happen for the reasons you listed. The more balanced a scoring attack we have the less we will be putting the team's fortunes on whether or not JR can keep it together.

I'd bite the bullet and let him start if that is what it takes to keep him. He's too good a value player to let him walk over trivial stuff like that. Especially with him under contract, we can bench him later in the season for "team chemistry". If he becomes a problem, trade him for some assets. Problem solved

to be honest, I never understood NOT starting him since he plays starters minutes.

NardDogNation wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I don't think he walks. My concern is that he comes back and is a starter. JR is not reliable enough to be your second option. Sixth man suits him and you play him with the knowledge that he might not heat up some nights. Bargs needs to be the second option and Smith needs to be the sixth man. He has too much talent and the Knicks can't use his salary on anyone else so I think they have to find away to get him back. He is too much of a wild card to be the starting two guard though.

I hope JR doesn't include starting as part of the deal for his coming back. Smith might argue that he's taking less money so the Knicks should do something in return. Hope it doesn't happen for the reasons you listed. The more balanced a scoring attack we have the less we will be putting the team's fortunes on whether or not JR can keep it together.

I'd bite the bullet and let him start if that is what it takes to keep him. He's too good a value player to let him walk over trivial stuff like that. Especially with him under contract, we can bench him later in the season for "team chemistry". If he becomes a problem, trade him for some assets. Problem solved

Nothing trivial about who is in the starting lineup. There is a reason why JR has never been a starter in his career. The same reason he melted down in the playoffs. With JR on the bench Melo gets a chance to get going, then JR is brought in and takes over the offense when Melo sits, worked out great during the regular season. Don't want to mess up a good thing just to keep JR happy, not after the way the season ended.

John Starks was just as streaky (minus the highs) and he mostly started for us. I get what you're saying though and respectfully disagree with it. Our only focus should be to get him under contract by any means necessary. Once that is accomplished, we can deal with that matter later.

We witnessed in 94' what happens when you put too much faith in a streaky shooter.

Smith excelled because Woodson gave him carte blanche to do whatever he wanted on the floor when Melo sat. Will Woodson give him that same latitude as a starter? Feels like an "if ain't broke, don't fix it" situation.

Lets say we give him lip service about starting and Smith gets sent to the bench because he's in a slump. I honestly don't know how Smith would handle it. Its not like he's been a paragon of maturity over the years.

I'm not as enthused about bringing Smith back as you are so I'm not as willing to make concessions. If he does come back I'd like for him to be where he thrived last season. To be fair, I would let him start a few games in the preseason and see how things go but no guarantees of starting. We have a bunch of new players coming in, lets see how the pieces fit first before guaranteeing him the starter's job.

Starks choked in the '94 Finals but we would've never made the Finals without him. Same deal with Smith. There is a reason why he is getting so much attention as a FA and it is because he is a positive sum player. If all it takes to retain him is $5.3million/yr he could very well be the best value player in the league and at the very least, a trade chip to improve the team.

JR being so unpredictable is why I don't want him to have an outsized role next season like he did last season. It was a necessity last season with all the injuries, but next season I'm hoping that we won't have to rely on him so much.

As long as JR just asks for the biggest contract he can get from the Knicks and doesn't start making demands like contracts for family members, what role he has on the team, then bringing him back would be more appealing.

After his performance in the playoffs I don't believe he deserves those kind of perks. If he has a great year next season and plays well (and smart) from start to finish, then let him ask about some added consideration from mgmt, not before.

NardDogNation wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I don't think he walks. My concern is that he comes back and is a starter. JR is not reliable enough to be your second option. Sixth man suits him and you play him with the knowledge that he might not heat up some nights. Bargs needs to be the second option and Smith needs to be the sixth man. He has too much talent and the Knicks can't use his salary on anyone else so I think they have to find away to get him back. He is too much of a wild card to be the starting two guard though.

I hope JR doesn't include starting as part of the deal for his coming back. Smith might argue that he's taking less money so the Knicks should do something in return. Hope it doesn't happen for the reasons you listed. The more balanced a scoring attack we have the less we will be putting the team's fortunes on whether or not JR can keep it together.

I'd bite the bullet and let him start if that is what it takes to keep him. He's too good a value player to let him walk over trivial stuff like that. Especially with him under contract, we can bench him later in the season for "team chemistry". If he becomes a problem, trade him for some assets. Problem solved

Nothing trivial about who is in the starting lineup. There is a reason why JR has never been a starter in his career. The same reason he melted down in the playoffs. With JR on the bench Melo gets a chance to get going, then JR is brought in and takes over the offense when Melo sits, worked out great during the regular season. Don't want to mess up a good thing just to keep JR happy, not after the way the season ended.

John Starks was just as streaky (minus the highs) and he mostly started for us. I get what you're saying though and respectfully disagree with it. Our only focus should be to get him under contract by any means necessary. Once that is accomplished, we can deal with that matter later.

We witnessed in 94' what happens when you put too much faith in a streaky shooter.

Smith excelled because Woodson gave him carte blanche to do whatever he wanted on the floor when Melo sat. Will Woodson give him that same latitude as a starter? Feels like an "if ain't broke, don't fix it" situation.

Lets say we give him lip service about starting and Smith gets sent to the bench because he's in a slump. I honestly don't know how Smith would handle it. Its not like he's been a paragon of maturity over the years.

I'm not as enthused about bringing Smith back as you are so I'm not as willing to make concessions. If he does come back I'd like for him to be where he thrived last season. To be fair, I would let him start a few games in the preseason and see how things go but no guarantees of starting. We have a bunch of new players coming in, lets see how the pieces fit first before guaranteeing him the starter's job.

Starks choked in the '94 Finals but we would've never made the Finals without him. Same deal with Smith. There is a reason why he is getting so much attention as a FA and it is because he is a positive sum player. If all it takes to retain him is $5.3million/yr he could very well be the best value player in the league and at the very least, a trade chip to improve the team.

JR being so unpredictable is why I don't want him to have an outsized role next season like he did last season. It was a necessity last season with all the injuries, but next season I'm hoping that we won't have to rely on him so much.

As long as JR just asks for the biggest contract he can get from the Knicks and doesn't start making demands like contracts for family members, what role he has on the team, then bringing him back would be more appealing.

After his performance in the playoffs I don't believe he deserves those kind of perks. If he has a great year next season and plays well (and smart) from start to finish, then let him ask about some added consideration from mgmt, not before.

Fair and I largely agree. I just feel the fault lies with management and not so much JR. Everyone knew that JR is not a no.2 man but because of poor planning and bad luck, he had to be ours by default.

J.R. became the 2nd option by default because Stat cant stay healthy.....

DurzoBlint wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I don't think he walks. My concern is that he comes back and is a starter. JR is not reliable enough to be your second option. Sixth man suits him and you play him with the knowledge that he might not heat up some nights. Bargs needs to be the second option and Smith needs to be the sixth man. He has too much talent and the Knicks can't use his salary on anyone else so I think they have to find away to get him back. He is too much of a wild card to be the starting two guard though.

I hope JR doesn't include starting as part of the deal for his coming back. Smith might argue that he's taking less money so the Knicks should do something in return. Hope it doesn't happen for the reasons you listed. The more balanced a scoring attack we have the less we will be putting the team's fortunes on whether or not JR can keep it together.

I'd bite the bullet and let him start if that is what it takes to keep him. He's too good a value player to let him walk over trivial stuff like that. Especially with him under contract, we can bench him later in the season for "team chemistry". If he becomes a problem, trade him for some assets. Problem solved

to be honest, I never understood NOT starting him since he plays starters minutes.

I thought it was a plot to get him the award, most 6th men don't finish games and only avg 25 minutes..he was 2nd on the team in mins avg

GustavBahler wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I don't think he walks. My concern is that he comes back and is a starter. JR is not reliable enough to be your second option. Sixth man suits him and you play him with the knowledge that he might not heat up some nights. Bargs needs to be the second option and Smith needs to be the sixth man. He has too much talent and the Knicks can't use his salary on anyone else so I think they have to find away to get him back. He is too much of a wild card to be the starting two guard though.

I hope JR doesn't include starting as part of the deal for his coming back. Smith might argue that he's taking less money so the Knicks should do something in return. Hope it doesn't happen for the reasons you listed. The more balanced a scoring attack we have the less we will be putting the team's fortunes on whether or not JR can keep it together.

I'd bite the bullet and let him start if that is what it takes to keep him. He's too good a value player to let him walk over trivial stuff like that. Especially with him under contract, we can bench him later in the season for "team chemistry". If he becomes a problem, trade him for some assets. Problem solved

Nothing trivial about who is in the starting lineup. There is a reason why JR has never been a starter in his career. The same reason he melted down in the playoffs. With JR on the bench Melo gets a chance to get going, then JR is brought in and takes over the offense when Melo sits, worked out great during the regular season. Don't want to mess up a good thing just to keep JR happy, not after the way the season ended.

John Starks was just as streaky (minus the highs) and he mostly started for us. I get what you're saying though and respectfully disagree with it. Our only focus should be to get him under contract by any means necessary. Once that is accomplished, we can deal with that matter later.

We witnessed in 94' what happens when you put too much faith in a streaky shooter.

Smith excelled because Woodson gave him carte blanche to do whatever he wanted on the floor when Melo sat. Will Woodson give him that same latitude as a starter? Feels like an "if ain't broke, don't fix it" situation.

Lets say we give him lip service about starting and Smith gets sent to the bench because he's in a slump. I honestly don't know how Smith would handle it. Its not like he's been a paragon of maturity over the years.

I'm not as enthused about bringing Smith back as you are so I'm not as willing to make concessions. If he does come back I'd like for him to be where he thrived last season. To be fair, I would let him start a few games in the preseason and see how things go but no guarantees of starting. We have a bunch of new players coming in, lets see how the pieces fit first before guaranteeing him the starter's job.

Starks choked in the '94 Finals but we would've never made the Finals without him. Same deal with Smith. There is a reason why he is getting so much attention as a FA and it is because he is a positive sum player. If all it takes to retain him is $5.3million/yr he could very well be the best value player in the league and at the very least, a trade chip to improve the team.

JR being so unpredictable is why I don't want him to have an outsized role next season like he did last season. It was a necessity last season with all the injuries, but next season I'm hoping that we won't have to rely on him so much.

As long as JR just asks for the biggest contract he can get from the Knicks and doesn't start making demands like contracts for family members, what role he has on the team, then bringing him back would be more appealing.

After his performance in the playoffs I don't believe he deserves those kind of perks. If he has a great year next season and plays well (and smart) from start to finish, then let him ask about some added consideration from mgmt, not before.

what you have to recognize is that even if he started, he'd likely play the same amount of minutes so, what difference does it make. It might be a good think if they plan of having Shump play minutes at the point. I really liked having Shump and JR on the floor at the same time. It was like their defense fed off of each other

jrodmc wrote:Did I just read Shump for Iggy?
Doesn't even the mention of trading Shump get you the automatic UK ban for life?

How swiftly things change over the course of an off season. We're essentially talking about trading a yoot to Denver for an aging "scorer".
I cannot understand why the MeloHate Somber contingent is not lighting this thread on fire.

And let's not forget, Iggy shoots a blistering .419 in the playoffs.

Iggy. We talkin bout Iggy?

You finally get a knick with the right attitude. A throwback knick from the 90s and people can't wait to get rid of him for other teams castoffs again. Can't make it up

knicks1248 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Did I just read Shump for Iggy?
Doesn't even the mention of trading Shump get you the automatic UK ban for life?

How swiftly things change over the course of an off season. We're essentially talking about trading a yoot to Denver for an aging "scorer".
I cannot understand why the MeloHate Somber contingent is not lighting this thread on fire.

And let's not forget, Iggy shoots a blistering .419 in the playoffs.

Iggy. We talkin bout Iggy?

Dude, Shumpert isn't THAT good. I'd be shocked if he ever approaches what Igoudala is now and has been throughout his career.

dude your tripping, your judging a player who didn't really get into to form until april, he has a ship load of potential, and right now is regarded as one of the best perimeter defenders in the game..AI is good, but only in the right situation, a more run and gun, he's suspect as hell in a half court offennse..should I mention he shot 57% from the FT line, 30% from arc, and 3 TO's pg..

Yeah, I know that he has a "ship load" of potential just like Trevor Ariza, Channing Frye, Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler and Eddy Curry did and none of them managed to be anything but role players. Meanwhile, Igoudala is an all-star caliber player and has played up to this billing for most of his career. I like Shumpert but I'd roll the dice on this one ASAP. He's a great defender but there is nothing in his offensive game to suggest he'll be anything but a good role player ala Toney Allen (albeit better).

P.S., I like Igoudala because he adds dimension that Shumpert currently does not. Iggy can be a one man fastbreak and consistent scoring option, two things missing next to Melo last year. On defense, he can do everything that Shumpert can.