CrushAlot wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Jordan Hill

So what. At least Hill is a respectable player in the NBA who can rebound. Where is our rebounding forward? What do we have to show for after trading 3 first round picks (including 2014 and 2016)? What are we going to do to build this team? We're a 5th seed that's stuck in the quick sand. We're sinking quickly and unless we make a big move to contend then the Melo Era is going to be a failure.

Hill and an unprotected 2012 pick equals the cap space to sign amare.

It was the cap space used to sign 2 max free agents. One being LeBron James. It was a worthy gamble for a pathetic franchise like the Knicks. It didn't quite work the way we wanted it to but I make that move 10 times over to have a shot at LeBron.

It was a pretty flawed plan and everyone knew his intentions which made it much easier for him to be taken advantage of when he attempted to make deals. Signing a guy with an uninsureable contract and a post surgery timeline for how long he could play to a max deal was a huge mistake and it is the biggest hinderance to the knicks making moves and being successful.

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Jordan Hill

So what. At least Hill is a respectable player in the NBA who can rebound. Where is our rebounding forward? What do we have to show for after trading 3 first round picks (including 2014 and 2016)? What are we going to do to build this team? We're a 5th seed that's stuck in the quick sand. We're sinking quickly and unless we make a big move to contend then the Melo Era is going to be a failure.

Hill and an unprotected 2012 pick equals the cap space to sign amare.

It was the cap space used to sign 2 max free agents. One being LeBron James. It was a worthy gamble for a pathetic franchise like the Knicks. It didn't quite work the way we wanted it to but I make that move 10 times over to have a shot at LeBron.

It was a pretty flawed plan and everyone knew his intentions which made it much easier for him to be taken advantage of when he attempted to make deals. Signing a guy with an uninsureable contract and a post surgery timeline for how long he could play to a max deal was a huge mistake and it is the biggest hinderance to the knicks making moves and being successful.

well the biggest hinderance is using the amnesty clause on billups instead of amare

It comes back to giving Amare a max deal despite what the doctors were saying and that the contract couldn't be insured. However, Amare had just had a season where he put up 25 and 8. The Knicks had finally played above .500 and gone to the playoffs. I don't see anyway that you amnesty Amare at that point. Grunwald knew the Knicks didn't have enough talent and went after Tyson. Tyson was a big signing.

JamesKPolk wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Jordan Hill

So what. At least Hill is a respectable player in the NBA who can rebound. Where is our rebounding forward? What do we have to show for after trading 3 first round picks (including 2014 and 2016)? What are we going to do to build this team? We're a 5th seed that's stuck in the quick sand. We're sinking quickly and unless we make a big move to contend then the Melo Era is going to be a failure.

Hill and an unprotected 2012 pick equals the cap space to sign amare.

It was the cap space used to sign 2 max free agents. One being LeBron James. It was a worthy gamble for a pathetic franchise like the Knicks. It didn't quite work the way we wanted it to but I make that move 10 times over to have a shot at LeBron.

It was a pretty flawed plan and everyone knew his intentions which made it much easier for him to be taken advantage of when he attempted to make deals. Signing a guy with an uninsureable contract and a post surgery timeline for how long he could play to a max deal was a huge mistake and it is the biggest hinderance to the knicks making moves and being successful.

well the biggest hinderance is using the amnesty clause on billups instead of amare

It comes back to giving Amare a max deal despite what the doctors were saying and that the contract couldn't be insured. However, Amare had just had a season where he put up 25 and 8. The Knicks had finally played above .500 and gone to the playoffs. I don't see anyway that you amnesty Amare at that point. Grunwald knew the Knicks didn't have enough talent and went after Tyson. Tyson was a big signing.

Your agenda is sad and, quite frankly, annoying. How long are you going to continue the charade and keep knocking Walsh in an effort to praise Grunwald and make him look good? Do you really feel the need to be validated that you will defend a mediocre GM till the end? Keep defending him for his bad moves, just like you defend mediocre Mike Woodson for his coaching so you wont admit you were wrong. Good for you.

JamesKPolk wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Jordan Hill

So what. At least Hill is a respectable player in the NBA who can rebound. Where is our rebounding forward? What do we have to show for after trading 3 first round picks (including 2014 and 2016)? What are we going to do to build this team? We're a 5th seed that's stuck in the quick sand. We're sinking quickly and unless we make a big move to contend then the Melo Era is going to be a failure.

Hill and an unprotected 2012 pick equals the cap space to sign amare.

It was the cap space used to sign 2 max free agents. One being LeBron James. It was a worthy gamble for a pathetic franchise like the Knicks. It didn't quite work the way we wanted it to but I make that move 10 times over to have a shot at LeBron.

It was a pretty flawed plan and everyone knew his intentions which made it much easier for him to be taken advantage of when he attempted to make deals. Signing a guy with an uninsureable contract and a post surgery timeline for how long he could play to a max deal was a huge mistake and it is the biggest hinderance to the knicks making moves and being successful.

well the biggest hinderance is using the amnesty clause on billups instead of amare

It comes back to giving Amare a max deal despite what the doctors were saying and that the contract couldn't be insured. However, Amare had just had a season where he put up 25 and 8. The Knicks had finally played above .500 and gone to the playoffs. I don't see anyway that you amnesty Amare at that point. Grunwald knew the Knicks didn't have enough talent and went after Tyson. Tyson was a big signing.

Your agenda is sad and, quite frankly, annoying. How long are you going to continue the charade and keep knocking Walsh in an effort to praise Grunwald and make him look good? Do you really feel the need to be validated that you will defend a mediocre GM till the end? Keep defending him for his bad moves, just like you defend mediocre Mike Woodson for his coaching so you wont admit you were wrong. Good for you.

Amare was a good signing? The guy was signed before there was an amnesty provision and doctors gave a timeline for how long he could play post surgery. Walsh traded away a lot to get the space to sign him. Not sure what your issue is with criticism of Walsh. He made a big mistake with the Amare contract.
Also, I don't have an agenda but I do get frustrated when the Knicks have so little wiggle room to get better. Amare's contract and Walsh's trades were a big part of that in my opinion.

He didn't make any mistake. He signed a guy who helped his team return to relevance before getting injured. Amare is the reason why players were thinking about coming here. Hindsight is 20/20 but nobody was calling this a mistake when Amare was scoring 30 points for a franchise record 9 games in a row in his first season here. Injuries ruined him, not lousy play. Unlike Grunwald's big move, who has been an inconsistent underachiever in the playoffs (and parts of the season) since he arrived here.

Grunwald's decision to sign Chandler to a max contract, give Novak, Kidd and Camby the money he did, hiring Woodson as coach and using his amnesty on an expiring contract is what has hindered the Knicks. Not Walsh. This is Grunwald's team, not Walsh. Grunwald built this team and used a lot of assets to do so. If you're going to take out your frustrations on the lack of wiggle room on anyone, it would be on someone like Grunwald, who traded the Greek kid and then tried getting him back for a first rounder and traded all his 2nd round picks and cash for Camby (who his coach didn't play) and had no assets to acquire any other picks in this draft as a result. Grunwald has done a mediocre job at best since arriving here. He didn't impress in Toronto, he's not impressing here.

JamesKPolk wrote:How long are you going to apologize for Grunwald? I can't read your posts anymore. They're embarrassing. Insulting Walsh after he saved the franchise from irrelevance to praise a guy who has done jack squat in NY? What picks did Walsh trade besides the Houston trade, which was necessary? He went all-in the right way. He gambled and unfortunately we lost to Miami. But we were in it to win it. The Knicks of today aren't in it to win it. This the team Grunwald put around Carmelo. This was Grunwald's downfall. His short-sightedness cost the Carmelo Anthony Era a championship. Amare was already coming off injury when Grunwald was put into place. Rather than be patient and keep Billups to maintain his amnesty clause and cap flexibility, he panicked and overpaid an inconsistent, underperforming center. You keep ignoring the facts. You keep hearing what you want to hear. You keep apologizing for the man the same way you apologized for Isiah. Think what you want to think but don't ignore facts. Don't make things up that didn't happen. Don't pretend Grunwald has done a better job than Walsh. Grunwald has been mediocre at best here. Nothing he has done has wowed me. He's given players terrible contracts and buried himself further than before. If you want to call that being a good GM go right ahead but don't try and fool others on this board by continuing to repeat the same old tired lines that simply aren't true.

JamesKPolk wrote:I'll agree to disagree as soon as you give Walsh his due and admit that Grunwald hasn't done much good since taking over. 54 wins is going to look like a fluke come next season with the way this roster and the way the East is looking. We're a 5th seed right now. We need a major change to contend.

3G4G wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

3G4G wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:and they had no pick. They spent some cash and got a player that was undervalued in this zonker of a draft. There are a handful of undrafted players who will make the NBA.

Hawks traded Shane Larkin to the Mavs for Muscala/Noguiera/Cunningham.....lol

It was like Donnie Walsh was running our draft tonight

What are you talking about? Walsh made good picks here and was always active on draft night.

Walsh was asleep in 2008

Walsh drafted Hill in 2009 and spent $3mil cash giving up a 2011 2nd for Toney Douglas

Walsh in 2010 drafted Fields and Rottens

Walsh in 2011 drafted Shumpert and paid $1mil for Jerome Jordan

Please elaborate what was great about what he did drafting wise?

well he did say good.. not great...

fields was a good pick, Jordan hill didn't get much time to prove himself but he was a reach....shumpert was a solid pick, gallo was a good pick.. I would not call his work bad..

tkf wrote:

3G4G wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

3G4G wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:and they had no pick. They spent some cash and got a player that was undervalued in this zonker of a draft. There are a handful of undrafted players who will make the NBA.

Hawks traded Shane Larkin to the Mavs for Muscala/Noguiera/Cunningham.....lol

It was like Donnie Walsh was running our draft tonight

What are you talking about? Walsh made good picks here and was always active on draft night.

Walsh was asleep in 2008

Walsh drafted Hill in 2009 and spent $3mil cash giving up a 2011 2nd for Toney Douglas

Walsh in 2010 drafted Fields and Rottens

Walsh in 2011 drafted Shumpert and paid $1mil for Jerome Jordan

Please elaborate what was great about what he did drafting wise?

well he did say good.. not great...

fields was a good pick, Jordan hill didn't get much time to prove himself but he was a reach....shumpert was a solid pick, gallo was a good pick.. I would not call his work bad..

The only pick he made i hated was Jordan Hill. I would of much rather of taken Brook Lopez who I thought was the 3rd best player in the Galo draft but Galo was my next highest graded guy so it wasnt so bad. Shumpert I wasnt crazy about because I didnt think he could shoot but he has turned out to be worth the pick.

tkf wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Jordan Hill

So what. At least Hill is a respectable player in the NBA who can rebound. Where is our rebounding forward? What do we have to show for after trading 3 first round picks (including 2014 and 2016)? What are we going to do to build this team? We're a 5th seed that's stuck in the quick sand. We're sinking quickly and unless we make a big move to contend then the Melo Era is going to be a failure.

jordan hill would be breath of fresh air on this team now.....

Agreed. We should look to bring him back on the cheap.