knicks1248 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

knickscity wrote:all kidd lead was the three point brickfest, and how to crash vehicles while drunk.

Kidd was dfntly a leader, and when he fell off in the playooffs so did the rest of the team.

I just can't remember one single championship team that didn't have a clear cut LEADER

I really don't buy into that leader stuff...I think there are guys who assume the lead role in an important situation...I think there are leaders in some cases but not all cases...Yesterday's game had more leaders...I don't think there are many leaders today..Bron isn't a leader..He assumes the lead role...Parker isn't a leader, he assumes the lead role...Kidd wasn't a leader on the Knicks..

Labron isn't a LEADER??? are you kidding me, thats like saying kobe isn't a leader.

Duncun (who's leadership is similar to EWINGS) is the lead man on the spurs, not parker or ginobli.

Name me one team in the last 20 yrs that won a title with out a leader

The game is different today...Bird was a leader...Magic was a leader...Doc was a leader...MJ was a leader...Willis Reed was a leader...You can listen to the reverence Clyde speaks of Willis to this day...Bron is not of that ilk, neither is Kobe..A leader garners respect on and off the court...It's the way you carry yourself as important as how u play...Kidd lost that many years ago...Parker now plays the lead role for the Spurs but he isn't a leader...Duncan isn't that guy anymore...Lin went to Houston and announced he was the leader, how did that turn out??....DLee in the playoffs said he was the leader of the team in an interview and they played better without him...Lee might be on the trading block...Leaders are guys that live the respect on and off the court...That is difficult to carry out in today's society and in today's game...

The Heat won without a true "leader"...Bron plays a lead role, he is mentally weak and his teammates know it...Dallas won without a leader..Dirk is not a leader...Chandler is not a leader...It was an assembly of vets, experienced players...Detroit won without a leader...Vets gain...Billups is media hype..He didn't lead Sheed or Wallace anywhere...Or Prince and Rip for that matter...LB was tearing him a new one everyday...Who on the team is going to respect that...Billups played a lead roll and took the big shots...We are so ready to anoint leaders without having a true understanding of what it entails...Media hype...

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

knickscity wrote:all kidd lead was the three point brickfest, and how to crash vehicles while drunk.

Kidd was dfntly a leader, and when he fell off in the playooffs so did the rest of the team.

I just can't remember one single championship team that didn't have a clear cut LEADER

I really don't buy into that leader stuff...I think there are guys who assume the lead role in an important situation...I think there are leaders in some cases but not all cases...Yesterday's game had more leaders...I don't think there are many leaders today..Bron isn't a leader..He assumes the lead role...Parker isn't a leader, he assumes the lead role...Kidd wasn't a leader on the Knicks..

Labron isn't a LEADER??? are you kidding me, thats like saying kobe isn't a leader.

Duncun (who's leadership is similar to EWINGS) is the lead man on the spurs, not parker or ginobli.

Name me one team in the last 20 yrs that won a title with out a leader

The game is different today...Bird was a leader...Magic was a leader...Doc was a leader...MJ was a leader...Willis Reed was a leader...You can listen to the reverence Clyde speaks of Willis to this day...Bron is not of that ilk, neither is Kobe..A leader garners respect on and off the court...It's the way you carry yourself as important as how u play...Kidd lost that many years ago...Parker now plays the lead role for the Spurs but he isn't a leader...Duncan isn't that guy anymore...Lin went to Houston and announced he was the leader, how did that turn out??....DLee in the playoffs said he was the leader of the team in an interview and they played better without him...Lee might be on the trading block...Leaders are guys that live the respect on and off the court...That is difficult to carry out in today's society and in today's game...

The Heat won without a true "leader"...Bron plays a lead role, he is mentally weak and his teammates know it...Dallas won without a leader..Dirk is not a leader...Chandler is not a leader...It was an assembly of vets, experienced players...Detroit won without a leader...Vets gain...Billups is media hype..He didn't lead Sheed or Wallace anywhere...Or Prince and Rip for that matter...LB was tearing him a new one everyday...Who on the team is going to respect that...Billups played a lead roll and took the big shots...We are so ready to anoint leaders without having a true understanding of what it entails...Media hype...

and yet there are champions every year and they win without a leader somehow, breaking free of the storied past? so what has replaced leadership on the road to titles? just trying to make sense of what you are saying.

Hard to believe??..Bron is the greatest player on this planet..How many times everyone come away from this series thinking why isn't he being aggressive asserting himself and leading his team? How many times do you see Magic questioning his drive...Leaders don't get qustioned...MJ never got questioned..Bird never got questioned..Magic, etc...

Anybody who said kobe is not a leader needs to take a look at " kobe doing work" http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=kobe+doin+work+part+1+&oq=kobe+doing+work&gs_l=youtube.1.1.0i10l10.26579.31078.0.37042.15.13.0.2.2.0.101.962.12j1.13.0...0.0...1ac.1.11.youtube.yG_kW7Go-P0 then think twice

Holfresh is right to a certain extent, the ERA of those kind of leaders are gone, todays leaders make their teammates better, lead by example on and off the court and have a respected presence in the LOCKER ROOM.. I just use SHEED as the type of leader Im talking about, role player or Super star, doesn't matter, we have none on this team..

As much as I get on MELO, I like him as a leader if he could ever play right.. He's right there like Phil jackson said, I see how is teammates look up to him, they go to him no matter what, when he plays defense hard, it carries over very fast to the rest of the team, when he's passing, everybody is passing, when he plays hard on both ends, everybody plays hard..

Will he ever take the Challenge, will Tyson wrk hard on his offensive game and get stronger and stop voicing his fustration to the media before his teammates ??

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

knickscity wrote:all kidd lead was the three point brickfest, and how to crash vehicles while drunk.

Kidd was dfntly a leader, and when he fell off in the playooffs so did the rest of the team.

I just can't remember one single championship team that didn't have a clear cut LEADER

I really don't buy into that leader stuff...I think there are guys who assume the lead role in an important situation...I think there are leaders in some cases but not all cases...Yesterday's game had more leaders...I don't think there are many leaders today..Bron isn't a leader..He assumes the lead role...Parker isn't a leader, he assumes the lead role...Kidd wasn't a leader on the Knicks..

Labron isn't a LEADER??? are you kidding me, thats like saying kobe isn't a leader.

Duncun (who's leadership is similar to EWINGS) is the lead man on the spurs, not parker or ginobli.

Name me one team in the last 20 yrs that won a title with out a leader

The game is different today...Bird was a leader...Magic was a leader...Doc was a leader...MJ was a leader...Willis Reed was a leader...You can listen to the reverence Clyde speaks of Willis to this day...Bron is not of that ilk, neither is Kobe..A leader garners respect on and off the court...It's the way you carry yourself as important as how u play...Kidd lost that many years ago...Parker now plays the lead role for the Spurs but he isn't a leader...Duncan isn't that guy anymore...Lin went to Houston and announced he was the leader, how did that turn out??....DLee in the playoffs said he was the leader of the team in an interview and they played better without him...Lee might be on the trading block...Leaders are guys that live the respect on and off the court...That is difficult to carry out in today's society and in today's game...

The Heat won without a true "leader"...Bron plays a lead role, he is mentally weak and his teammates know it...Dallas won without a leader..Dirk is not a leader...Chandler is not a leader...It was an assembly of vets, experienced players...Detroit won without a leader...Vets gain...Billups is media hype..He didn't lead Sheed or Wallace anywhere...Or Prince and Rip for that matter...LB was tearing him a new one everyday...Who on the team is going to respect that...Billups played a lead roll and took the big shots...We are so ready to anoint leaders without having a true understanding of what it entails...Media hype...

and yet there are champions every year and they win without a leader somehow, breaking free of the storied past? so what has replaced leadership on the road to titles? just trying to make sense of what you are saying.

I think Kidd was the leader in Dallas. But I am not sure that I could pick a 'clear cut leader' of the other recent champions as the thread title says. I always think of Messier when I think of leaders. The guy was the captain, ran practice and did whatever needed to be done. LBJ can play that way on the court but I wouldn't call hin the 'clear cut leader'. I am not sure but I think your post implies that you believe there are clear cut leaders on the teams holfresh mentioned. If that is the case who do you see as, 'clear cut leaders' on those championship teams.

tim duncan

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

knickscity wrote:all kidd lead was the three point brickfest, and how to crash vehicles while drunk.

Kidd was dfntly a leader, and when he fell off in the playooffs so did the rest of the team.

I just can't remember one single championship team that didn't have a clear cut LEADER

I really don't buy into that leader stuff...I think there are guys who assume the lead role in an important situation...I think there are leaders in some cases but not all cases...Yesterday's game had more leaders...I don't think there are many leaders today..Bron isn't a leader..He assumes the lead role...Parker isn't a leader, he assumes the lead role...Kidd wasn't a leader on the Knicks..

Labron isn't a LEADER??? are you kidding me, thats like saying kobe isn't a leader.

Duncun (who's leadership is similar to EWINGS) is the lead man on the spurs, not parker or ginobli.

Name me one team in the last 20 yrs that won a title with out a leader

The game is different today...Bird was a leader...Magic was a leader...Doc was a leader...MJ was a leader...Willis Reed was a leader...You can listen to the reverence Clyde speaks of Willis to this day...Bron is not of that ilk, neither is Kobe..A leader garners respect on and off the court...It's the way you carry yourself as important as how u play...Kidd lost that many years ago...Parker now plays the lead role for the Spurs but he isn't a leader...Duncan isn't that guy anymore...Lin went to Houston and announced he was the leader, how did that turn out??....DLee in the playoffs said he was the leader of the team in an interview and they played better without him...Lee might be on the trading block...Leaders are guys that live the respect on and off the court...That is difficult to carry out in today's society and in today's game...

The Heat won without a true "leader"...Bron plays a lead role, he is mentally weak and his teammates know it...Dallas won without a leader..Dirk is not a leader...Chandler is not a leader...It was an assembly of vets, experienced players...Detroit won without a leader...Vets gain...Billups is media hype..He didn't lead Sheed or Wallace anywhere...Or Prince and Rip for that matter...LB was tearing him a new one everyday...Who on the team is going to respect that...Billups played a lead roll and took the big shots...We are so ready to anoint leaders without having a true understanding of what it entails...Media hype...

and yet there are champions every year and they win without a leader somehow, breaking free of the storied past? so what has replaced leadership on the road to titles? just trying to make sense of what you are saying.

I think Kidd was the leader in Dallas. But I am not sure that I could pick a 'clear cut leader' of the other recent champions as the thread title says. I always think of Messier when I think of leaders. The guy was the captain, ran practice and did whatever needed to be done. LBJ can play that way on the court but I wouldn't call hin the 'clear cut leader'. I am not sure but I think your post implies that you believe there are clear cut leaders on the teams holfresh mentioned. If that is the case who do you see as, 'clear cut leaders' on those championship teams.

tim duncan

I don't know if Duncan is a vocal leader or not but you can't dispute his play or character. Any other clear cut leaders? The last time the Spurs won was 07.

But you have guys like garnett, Dirk, wade, lebron, all were clear cut leaders...

tkf wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

knickscity wrote:all kidd lead was the three point brickfest, and how to crash vehicles while drunk.

Kidd was dfntly a leader, and when he fell off in the playooffs so did the rest of the team.

I just can't remember one single championship team that didn't have a clear cut LEADER

I really don't buy into that leader stuff...I think there are guys who assume the lead role in an important situation...I think there are leaders in some cases but not all cases...Yesterday's game had more leaders...I don't think there are many leaders today..Bron isn't a leader..He assumes the lead role...Parker isn't a leader, he assumes the lead role...Kidd wasn't a leader on the Knicks..

Labron isn't a LEADER??? are you kidding me, thats like saying kobe isn't a leader.

Duncun (who's leadership is similar to EWINGS) is the lead man on the spurs, not parker or ginobli.

Name me one team in the last 20 yrs that won a title with out a leader

The game is different today...Bird was a leader...Magic was a leader...Doc was a leader...MJ was a leader...Willis Reed was a leader...You can listen to the reverence Clyde speaks of Willis to this day...Bron is not of that ilk, neither is Kobe..A leader garners respect on and off the court...It's the way you carry yourself as important as how u play...Kidd lost that many years ago...Parker now plays the lead role for the Spurs but he isn't a leader...Duncan isn't that guy anymore...Lin went to Houston and announced he was the leader, how did that turn out??....DLee in the playoffs said he was the leader of the team in an interview and they played better without him...Lee might be on the trading block...Leaders are guys that live the respect on and off the court...That is difficult to carry out in today's society and in today's game...

The Heat won without a true "leader"...Bron plays a lead role, he is mentally weak and his teammates know it...Dallas won without a leader..Dirk is not a leader...Chandler is not a leader...It was an assembly of vets, experienced players...Detroit won without a leader...Vets gain...Billups is media hype..He didn't lead Sheed or Wallace anywhere...Or Prince and Rip for that matter...LB was tearing him a new one everyday...Who on the team is going to respect that...Billups played a lead roll and took the big shots...We are so ready to anoint leaders without having a true understanding of what it entails...Media hype...

and yet there are champions every year and they win without a leader somehow, breaking free of the storied past? so what has replaced leadership on the road to titles? just trying to make sense of what you are saying.

I think Kidd was the leader in Dallas. But I am not sure that I could pick a 'clear cut leader' of the other recent champions as the thread title says. I always think of Messier when I think of leaders. The guy was the captain, ran practice and did whatever needed to be done. LBJ can play that way on the court but I wouldn't call hin the 'clear cut leader'. I am not sure but I think your post implies that you believe there are clear cut leaders on the teams holfresh mentioned. If that is the case who do you see as, 'clear cut leaders' on those championship teams.

tim duncan

I don't know if Duncan is a vocal leader or not but you can't dispute his play or character. Any other clear cut leaders? The last time the Spurs won was 07.

LOL..... I can't believe some of the stuff I am reading... Duncan is a clear cut leader of the spurs, although they do have some high quality guys like manu and parker..

But you have guys like garnett, Dirk, wade, lebron, all were clear cut leaders...

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

knickscity wrote:all kidd lead was the three point brickfest, and how to crash vehicles while drunk.

Kidd was dfntly a leader, and when he fell off in the playooffs so did the rest of the team.

I just can't remember one single championship team that didn't have a clear cut LEADER

I really don't buy into that leader stuff...I think there are guys who assume the lead role in an important situation...I think there are leaders in some cases but not all cases...Yesterday's game had more leaders...I don't think there are many leaders today..Bron isn't a leader..He assumes the lead role...Parker isn't a leader, he assumes the lead role...Kidd wasn't a leader on the Knicks..

Labron isn't a LEADER??? are you kidding me, thats like saying kobe isn't a leader.

Duncun (who's leadership is similar to EWINGS) is the lead man on the spurs, not parker or ginobli.

Name me one team in the last 20 yrs that won a title with out a leader

The game is different today...Bird was a leader...Magic was a leader...Doc was a leader...MJ was a leader...Willis Reed was a leader...You can listen to the reverence Clyde speaks of Willis to this day...Bron is not of that ilk, neither is Kobe..A leader garners respect on and off the court...It's the way you carry yourself as important as how u play...Kidd lost that many years ago...Parker now plays the lead role for the Spurs but he isn't a leader...Duncan isn't that guy anymore...Lin went to Houston and announced he was the leader, how did that turn out??....DLee in the playoffs said he was the leader of the team in an interview and they played better without him...Lee might be on the trading block...Leaders are guys that live the respect on and off the court...That is difficult to carry out in today's society and in today's game...

The Heat won without a true "leader"...Bron plays a lead role, he is mentally weak and his teammates know it...Dallas won without a leader..Dirk is not a leader...Chandler is not a leader...It was an assembly of vets, experienced players...Detroit won without a leader...Vets gain...Billups is media hype..He didn't lead Sheed or Wallace anywhere...Or Prince and Rip for that matter...LB was tearing him a new one everyday...Who on the team is going to respect that...Billups played a lead roll and took the big shots...We are so ready to anoint leaders without having a true understanding of what it entails...Media hype...

and yet there are champions every year and they win without a leader somehow, breaking free of the storied past? so what has replaced leadership on the road to titles? just trying to make sense of what you are saying.

I think Kidd was the leader in Dallas. But I am not sure that I could pick a 'clear cut leader' of the other recent champions as the thread title says. I always think of Messier when I think of leaders. The guy was the captain, ran practice and did whatever needed to be done. LBJ can play that way on the court but I wouldn't call hin the 'clear cut leader'. I am not sure but I think your post implies that you believe there are clear cut leaders on the teams holfresh mentioned. If that is the case who do you see as, 'clear cut leaders' on those championship teams.

tim duncan

I don't know if Duncan is a vocal leader or not but you can't dispute his play or character. Any other clear cut leaders? The last time the Spurs won was 07.

LOL..... I can't believe some of the stuff I am reading... Duncan is a clear cut leader of the spurs, although they do have some high quality guys like manu and parker..

But you have guys like garnett, Dirk, wade, lebron, all were clear cut leaders...

Those guys are first ballot hofs. Not sure if all of them are vocal leaders. They are definitely high character guys that leave it all on the court. Not sure if that equals clear cut leader.

why does one have to be vocal to be clear cut? leaders lead, people follow, they leave their imprint on their team.. Guys like Duncan do exactly that, that spurs teams has his personality written all over it...

The same with Garnett and pierce to a degree, the celtics had their imprint all over it..

lebron is a leader, vocal as well...

I am curious, what does them bring HOF players have to do with anything? maybe I am missing something

russell
magic
bird
jordan
olajuwon
shaq
duncan
nash
dirk
lebron

some are/were vocal and some are/were not.