fishmike wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

Vmart wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:Woody is great. Now that Damphony is gone we can see what this team can achieve under a real defense first coach. Og wait... that post was meant for last off-season

Now he just has to learn some offense and get some balance to get through the playoffs just defense alone won't get a team through playoffs. ACCOUNTABILITY starts with the coach.

Learn some offense? We had the 3rd most effiecient offense in the NBA.

That is regular season offense, you play a lot of crappy teams during the year. Playoffs is what separates the men from the boys. In the playoffs you see good teams and good teams know how to make the necessary adjustments to squeeze a team. One thing you can't be is predictable in the playoffs.

thank you AND, just because you have good OFFENSIVE PLAYERS has NOTHING to do with a coaches philosophy. Woodys Iso reliance simply will not cut it in the post season. He's good at most of the other aspects of coaching but, his offense is predictable and easy to gameplan for.

so show me the team that changes their offense come playoff time.

Your right.. the playoffs do separate the men from the boys. Funny how our players have terrible playoff records year after year but our current coach is to blame for that also.

Its not the system folks. Its not the playoffs. Its being able to execute against talent.

For 10 years Melo has averaged 41% in the playoffs. But when it happens here its because of bad coaching. Its like blaming Isiah for Marbury's malcontent attitude. Marbury was a mental case for year and people expected him to change here. Why? Why are you expecting Melo to play something besides give me the ball and get out of the way?

Woody's 100% all defense was perfect in my opinion. Trying to change Melo is failing endevour. Just ask Mike Dantoni. Woody watched the whole thing unfold and realized the way to advance is to crush the opponent defensively and hope MElo gets hot. It was working great. While Melo was hot. Guy goes cold and its on the coach?????

Wow... OK. Is that really how you guys see this roster?

almost EVERY team changes the schemes during the playoffs because your playing the same teams multiple times allowing you the time and consistency of opponent to do so. During the season, there is less time to practice and make such adjustments so, Teams & Coaches go with a specific philosophy but, the playoffs, thats when you step your game up, players AND coaches.

DurzoBlint wrote:

fishmike wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

Vmart wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:Woody is great. Now that Damphony is gone we can see what this team can achieve under a real defense first coach. Og wait... that post was meant for last off-season

Now he just has to learn some offense and get some balance to get through the playoffs just defense alone won't get a team through playoffs. ACCOUNTABILITY starts with the coach.

Learn some offense? We had the 3rd most effiecient offense in the NBA.

That is regular season offense, you play a lot of crappy teams during the year. Playoffs is what separates the men from the boys. In the playoffs you see good teams and good teams know how to make the necessary adjustments to squeeze a team. One thing you can't be is predictable in the playoffs.

thank you AND, just because you have good OFFENSIVE PLAYERS has NOTHING to do with a coaches philosophy. Woodys Iso reliance simply will not cut it in the post season. He's good at most of the other aspects of coaching but, his offense is predictable and easy to gameplan for.

so show me the team that changes their offense come playoff time.

Your right.. the playoffs do separate the men from the boys. Funny how our players have terrible playoff records year after year but our current coach is to blame for that also.

Its not the system folks. Its not the playoffs. Its being able to execute against talent.

For 10 years Melo has averaged 41% in the playoffs. But when it happens here its because of bad coaching. Its like blaming Isiah for Marbury's malcontent attitude. Marbury was a mental case for year and people expected him to change here. Why? Why are you expecting Melo to play something besides give me the ball and get out of the way?

Woody's 100% all defense was perfect in my opinion. Trying to change Melo is failing endevour. Just ask Mike Dantoni. Woody watched the whole thing unfold and realized the way to advance is to crush the opponent defensively and hope MElo gets hot. It was working great. While Melo was hot. Guy goes cold and its on the coach?????

Wow... OK. Is that really how you guys see this roster?

almost EVERY team changes the schemes during the playoffs because your playing the same teams multiple times allowing you the time and consistency of opponent to do so. During the season, there is less time to practice and make such adjustments so, Teams & Coaches go with a specific philosophy but, the playoffs, thats when you step your game up, players AND coaches.

DurzoBlint wrote:

fishmike wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

fishmike wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

Vmart wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:Woody is great. Now that Damphony is gone we can see what this team can achieve under a real defense first coach. Og wait... that post was meant for last off-season

Now he just has to learn some offense and get some balance to get through the playoffs just defense alone won't get a team through playoffs. ACCOUNTABILITY starts with the coach.

Learn some offense? We had the 3rd most effiecient offense in the NBA.

That is regular season offense, you play a lot of crappy teams during the year. Playoffs is what separates the men from the boys. In the playoffs you see good teams and good teams know how to make the necessary adjustments to squeeze a team. One thing you can't be is predictable in the playoffs.

thank you AND, just because you have good OFFENSIVE PLAYERS has NOTHING to do with a coaches philosophy. Woodys Iso reliance simply will not cut it in the post season. He's good at most of the other aspects of coaching but, his offense is predictable and easy to gameplan for.

so show me the team that changes their offense come playoff time.

Your right.. the playoffs do separate the men from the boys. Funny how our players have terrible playoff records year after year but our current coach is to blame for that also.

Its not the system folks. Its not the playoffs. Its being able to execute against talent.

For 10 years Melo has averaged 41% in the playoffs. But when it happens here its because of bad coaching. Its like blaming Isiah for Marbury's malcontent attitude. Marbury was a mental case for year and people expected him to change here. Why? Why are you expecting Melo to play something besides give me the ball and get out of the way?

Woody's 100% all defense was perfect in my opinion. Trying to change Melo is failing endevour. Just ask Mike Dantoni. Woody watched the whole thing unfold and realized the way to advance is to crush the opponent defensively and hope MElo gets hot. It was working great. While Melo was hot. Guy goes cold and its on the coach?????

Wow... OK. Is that really how you guys see this roster?

almost EVERY team changes the schemes during the playoffs because your playing the same teams multiple times allowing you the time and consistency of opponent to do so. During the season, there is less time to practice and make such adjustments so, Teams & Coaches go with a specific philosophy but, the playoffs, thats when you step your game up, players AND coaches.

and Woody did that and the players failed. Explain how Woody is the culprit of this post season failure. Changing schemes and adjustments is one thing. The players were outplayed.

He did and he didn't. The fact that the guys he used obviously weren't getting it done but, he never gave the other guys a chance. If Tyson is playing like a little girl, then put Earl Barron in. If nothing else he has proven to be a good rebounder WHENEVER given the chance and he has a damn good jumper.

If JR is giving NOTHING, give Q a shot. He couldn't be worse than Smith was? Those are my issues but, I still don't think we would have won. I just think Indy IS THE better team but, I would have like to see what those guys could have brought. He allowed this team to go down without making use of all his options is all I'm saying.

Whats more probably? Melo or JR catching fire or Quentin or Earl Barron giving you something? Two guys without NBA jobs a month before? And if Woody DOES put those guys in and sits JR or MElo the potential for losing the team and backlash is there bigtime. Cmon man.. you really cant see this? Coaches dont bench guys who got them there. They just dont. The only time I can think of something like that is Harbaugh and Alex Smith getting benched.

DurzoBlint, we dont always agree but I respect your opinions as they appear agenda free to me... but you just cant cant cant put any of this on Woody. He got the team there. He navigated a season of up and down play, numerous injuries and get got the team into the postseason with a #2 seed and they were relatively healthy. He did his job x100. Its why has was up there in COY voting.

Blame the players. Blame the roster. Its a team good enough to compete with the 2nd tier teams of the NBA. A playoff team. Good enough to beat up on the bottom 15 but middle of the road when stacked against the top 15.

fishmike wrote:^^^ Im not even a Woody fan! I thought the last guy got dumped prematurely, but thats just me. Hell, I defended Chaney (who did a good job), Wilkins, Larry and Isiah were retards but their rosters were worse. My point is I dont deny coaching can have an impact, but in this case its positive.

I think we pretty much feel the same way except for a few minor details.

DurzoBlint wrote:Woodson is a good coach and a keeper. I would like to see him hire and offensive coordinator because, he has shown himself to be a good motivator and has the ability to relate to players, especially the young ones with maturity issues like JR. Most coaches would view him as a problem child but, Woodson was able to connect with him and gain his respect despite (or perhaps because of) the tough love Woody showed him. I like that.

Yes I was impressed with how he worked with the problem child JR, but that would be IMHO a role of an assistant. The rest of the team suffered because of the coddling of a few players when they didn't produce (Kidd & JR)

newyorknewyork wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

Jonathan Wagner ‏@JonathanJWagner
I like Doc Rivers as much as most, but #Knicks fans clamoring for him forget the #Celtics were TERRIBLE under him before the Big 3 arrived!

This is true.

He also won coach of the yr with an overachieving Magic team consisting of Ben Wallace and scraps.

fishmike wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

Vmart wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:Woody is great. Now that Damphony is gone we can see what this team can achieve under a real defense first coach. Og wait... that post was meant for last off-season

Now he just has to learn some offense and get some balance to get through the playoffs just defense alone won't get a team through playoffs. ACCOUNTABILITY starts with the coach.

Learn some offense? We had the 3rd most effiecient offense in the NBA.

That is regular season offense, you play a lot of crappy teams during the year. Playoffs is what separates the men from the boys. In the playoffs you see good teams and good teams know how to make the necessary adjustments to squeeze a team. One thing you can't be is predictable in the playoffs.

thank you AND, just because you have good OFFENSIVE PLAYERS has NOTHING to do with a coaches philosophy. Woodys Iso reliance simply will not cut it in the post season. He's good at most of the other aspects of coaching but, his offense is predictable and easy to gameplan for.

so show me the team that changes their offense come playoff time.

Your right.. the playoffs do separate the men from the boys. Funny how our players have terrible playoff records year after year but our current coach is to blame for that also.

Its not the system folks. Its not the playoffs. Its being able to execute against talent.

For 10 years Melo has averaged 41% in the playoffs. But when it happens here its because of bad coaching. Its like blaming Isiah for Marbury's malcontent attitude. Marbury was a mental case for year and people expected him to change here. Why? Why are you expecting Melo to play something besides give me the ball and get out of the way?

Woody's 100% all defense was perfect in my opinion. Trying to change Melo is failing endevour. Just ask Mike Dantoni. Woody watched the whole thing unfold and realized the way to advance is to crush the opponent defensively and hope MElo gets hot. It was working great. While Melo was hot. Guy goes cold and its on the coach?????

Wow... OK. Is that really how you guys see this roster?

If your going to put these players past playoff performance into the equation, why not take a GOOD HARD look at woodsons past playoff jobs, there not even mediocre dude. It's not good in any fashion whatsoever, and you think Copeland and Novak where not key guys during the season, you think they didn't win games for us when Tyson, amare and kidd(stuggling almiighty) where non factors. To play Amare sporadic minutes, not play cope and nov, stick with a struggling kidd and letting your opponent dictate the entire series...Yeah I'm putting a lot on the coach.

If the coach and his star player have a dreadful playoff record and continue to do the same exact things yr after yr, You think this marriage is ever going to have a honeymoon..

I give woodson credit for a very good season, and manning up on his playoff failures, but going FWD, he's days are numbered

The concept that there are other choices gives us hope that one of them would do a better job. 25 coach's hypothetically could do better than one?

Also with nets starphuching its just a matter of time before Dolan gets the itch to put a basketball in his hand, have the veneers polished pearly white and show them off with his new coach or GM to counter. Nothing like a new face to pump up the knick faithful! Internal growth be so much more boring!

Unless our team is taking a ride down the canyon of heroes haters and lovers can find cause to second guess the coach.

Karl wanted an extenstion so that COTY got booted. Vinnie Del Negro's contract was up and despite the best season in their pathetic history they have to pander to the star whose contract is also up despite his best season. Lionel wanted his due and get paid as well. Basically Karl is right, you want an extenstion or leave when you can.

Melo can opt out after next summer and Woodsons contract is up.

What will happen? Will Melo want another coach? Seems to me Melo had his best season and gets all the looks he wants. What else could a Mooby want? Will Dolan extend woodson? What about Grunfeld? Is he the GM in charge and gets to pick his coach to run a system?

Im sorry, was the exercise today to just fantasize that another coach would be better?

Yeah Fish, it was a disgrace when Isiah went on Letterman and found it funny that he was going to axe Chaney who got a lot out of his team and had their respect. Isiah botched up his negotiations with Fratello so bad he took Wilkens who had the same agent. Isiah's coaching picks and methoeds were comical.

At least he did pretty good hiring Woodson!

knicks1248 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:The Head coaches job isn't about offensive or defensive systems. The head coaches job is about motivating players, managing personalities and in game adjustments. Woodson does a good job of 2 out of the 3 just needs to improve on making adjustments during the game. Offensive and defensive philosophies can be handled by assistant coaches.

that's what I have been saying as well. He's too good a motivator (we "overachieved under him) and only needs an offensive coordinator to help out or at the least advise him. Its not an unheard of concept in the NBA at all.

I'm not sure if you guys are blind or just being naive, you can rip MDA for lacking any kind of defensive system, but give woodson a pass for lacking anykind of offensive system..I can understand (a little bit) of the suspect rotations,That happens when you have a lot of vets on the roster, but we are not a great defensive team by any stretch. At least MDA has a great offensive mind, WHAT EXACTLY IS WOODSON GREAT AT..

how am I GIVING HIM A pass when I clearly stated that he NEEDS TO HIRE and offensive coordinator. In my world that means I AM holding him accountable and have suggested a REMEDY for his lack of offensive creativity. Therefore, I am neither blind nor naive as you suggested.

As to your last question, it has been answered in multiple posts here, some of them my own.

knicks1248 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:The Head coaches job isn't about offensive or defensive systems. The head coaches job is about motivating players, managing personalities and in game adjustments. Woodson does a good job of 2 out of the 3 just needs to improve on making adjustments during the game. Offensive and defensive philosophies can be handled by assistant coaches.

that's what I have been saying as well. He's too good a motivator (we "overachieved under him) and only needs an offensive coordinator to help out or at the least advise him. Its not an unheard of concept in the NBA at all.

I'm not sure if you guys are blind or just being naive, you can rip MDA for lacking any kind of defensive system, but give woodson a pass for lacking anykind of offensive system..I can understand (a little bit) of the suspect rotations,That happens when you have a lot of vets on the roster, but we are not a great defensive team by any stretch. At least MDA has a great offensive mind, WHAT EXACTLY IS WOODSON GREAT AT..

how am I GIVING HIM A pass when I clearly stated that he NEEDS TO HIRE and offensive coordinator. In my world that means I AM holding him accountable and have suggested a REMEDY for his lack of offensive creativity. Therefore, I am neither blind nor naive as you suggested.

As to your last question, it has been answered in multiple posts here, some of them my own.

Who are they going to hire as a offensive coordinator, they had MDA and decided not to support him.

What the Knicks need to do is focus on getting a very good PG ONCE AND FOR ALL, no disrespect to felton (he's a 6th man IMO) but as long as woodson and melo are together, this topic will always come up..

MDA had the opposite flaw and I agree, he might have been canned prematurely but, he has NOTHING to do with the discussion because he isn't currently coaching us. MDA had the wrong ponies for his offense and like Woody, is too stuck in his ways to change. That was far from a perfect marriage (Woody and MDA) That said, it doesn't mean there aren't any (offensive coordinators) out there. I am not familiar enough with the leagues coaches to suggest anyone in particular.

Also, lets PLEASE NOT make this about Melo or players in general. This thread is about the COACH and, if you think he has no issues as we have spoken of, then why are you even posting??? Not saying your voice isn't valid, just not sure where your coming from.