Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fin89 wrote:With the end of the Knicks playoff run, many people have been talking about the need of another superstar to go alongside Melo. Instead, I watch these guys like Green, Neal, and Leonard step up in the finals. Let's be realistic, we don't have the ability to go out and get another star. Instead, we need to try to mimic the Spurs somewhat and get some of these guys who might be considered role players to step it up. I'd love to see someone like Copeland step it up and watch Shumpert continue to develop. Added ball movement would definitely help some of our other players really contribute. I think this will be our biggest challenge. We can't afford to be last in assists. I know we're never going be like Spurs who led in assists, but i'm hoping the staff tries to address the lack of ball movement in the offseason so we can get our other guys involved instead of settling for iso Melo and JR.

I agree, adding shooters and defenders is key. Copeland becomes extremely important to sign, he has a lot of the same qualities as Neal except at a different position. Shumpert should be a good 2-way player who can shoot and defend, and hopefully improve other areas as well. Also, we need to draft a skilled player who can bring some of the same qualities. The Spurs are great at adding 2-way players who can shoot and defend, and that is how you surround Melo to maximize his talent.

not really, Copeland is a tunnel vision player, he gets the ball and he looks to shoot at all cost... neal is a more cerebral player, he will pick his spots and moments... IQ level between the two doesn't seem to be close...

s how you surround Melo to maximize his talent.

How about, this is the way to build a team, I mean enough with Surrounding Melo to maximize his talent, that has been tried over and over again... your goal should be to have a team full of guys like that, carmelo doesn't fit as he is not a high IQ two way player.. the only way this works is if all of the players have talent to compliment one another... carmelo makes 20 mil a year, are you not tired of having to find guys to try and make this guy better, it should be a two way street.. Jeez.

Lets do this... Get me 5 very good, two way players ,and lets build that way, none of them making 20 mil a year to start....

It's not going to happen, so no point in discussing again and again. You will always have the unknown in your favor, but thats about it.

winning with carmelo is never going to happen, yet that doesn't stop you from rooting for him, right? so why can't I continue to plan a future without him? we all have things we wish for...

Who knows if we will win with him or not, but at least we are a winning team. Goal is to improve, not get worse. Championship aspirations aside, i enjoy being in the playoffs and winning playoff series, and want to win more.

I refuse to be sidetracked, we won a playoff series that had rondo not been hurt we probably don't win, even with a healthy amare..

I hate losing as well, but would take a step back to take two steps forward... I feel as if we are stuck, I have seen this script over and over again, i saw it with the nuggets now it is here, I don't like it....

I don't think it is fair to say we wouldn't have beat Boston if Rondo was there, sounds like something only a Celtics fan would say, but again that is your opinion. I also liked winning the atlantic division, but i'm sure you have some weird reason that wouldn't happen either. I get where you are headed, but the 1 step back, 2 step forward doesn't just magically happen. It takes luck, timing, resources, and front office smarts, and i'm not sure we have all of those things. Would be a waste of time to get back to a 1st or 2nd round playoff team, which is the result for a rebuilding team with above average success in all of those departments. Only the elite decision makers and luck will get you past that point.

in fariness, everything tkf ays is fact, much like when he told me I was an idiot for think Dirk Nowitzki had a legit shot at the Hall of Fame back in 2006 on that garabge messageboard he used to moderate

SupremeCommander wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fin89 wrote:With the end of the Knicks playoff run, many people have been talking about the need of another superstar to go alongside Melo. Instead, I watch these guys like Green, Neal, and Leonard step up in the finals. Let's be realistic, we don't have the ability to go out and get another star. Instead, we need to try to mimic the Spurs somewhat and get some of these guys who might be considered role players to step it up. I'd love to see someone like Copeland step it up and watch Shumpert continue to develop. Added ball movement would definitely help some of our other players really contribute. I think this will be our biggest challenge. We can't afford to be last in assists. I know we're never going be like Spurs who led in assists, but i'm hoping the staff tries to address the lack of ball movement in the offseason so we can get our other guys involved instead of settling for iso Melo and JR.

I agree, adding shooters and defenders is key. Copeland becomes extremely important to sign, he has a lot of the same qualities as Neal except at a different position. Shumpert should be a good 2-way player who can shoot and defend, and hopefully improve other areas as well. Also, we need to draft a skilled player who can bring some of the same qualities. The Spurs are great at adding 2-way players who can shoot and defend, and that is how you surround Melo to maximize his talent.

not really, Copeland is a tunnel vision player, he gets the ball and he looks to shoot at all cost... neal is a more cerebral player, he will pick his spots and moments... IQ level between the two doesn't seem to be close...

s how you surround Melo to maximize his talent.

How about, this is the way to build a team, I mean enough with Surrounding Melo to maximize his talent, that has been tried over and over again... your goal should be to have a team full of guys like that, carmelo doesn't fit as he is not a high IQ two way player.. the only way this works is if all of the players have talent to compliment one another... carmelo makes 20 mil a year, are you not tired of having to find guys to try and make this guy better, it should be a two way street.. Jeez.

Lets do this... Get me 5 very good, two way players ,and lets build that way, none of them making 20 mil a year to start....

It's not going to happen, so no point in discussing again and again. You will always have the unknown in your favor, but thats about it.

winning with carmelo is never going to happen, yet that doesn't stop you from rooting for him, right? so why can't I continue to plan a future without him? we all have things we wish for...

Who knows if we will win with him or not, but at least we are a winning team. Goal is to improve, not get worse. Championship aspirations aside, i enjoy being in the playoffs and winning playoff series, and want to win more.

I refuse to be sidetracked, we won a playoff series that had rondo not been hurt we probably don't win, even with a healthy amare..

I hate losing as well, but would take a step back to take two steps forward... I feel as if we are stuck, I have seen this script over and over again, i saw it with the nuggets now it is here, I don't like it....

I don't think it is fair to say we wouldn't have beat Boston if Rondo was there, sounds like something only a Celtics fan would say, but again that is your opinion. I also liked winning the atlantic division, but i'm sure you have some weird reason that wouldn't happen either. I get where you are headed, but the 1 step back, 2 step forward doesn't just magically happen. It takes luck, timing, resources, and front office smarts, and i'm not sure we have all of those things. Would be a waste of time to get back to a 1st or 2nd round playoff team, which is the result for a rebuilding team with above average success in all of those departments. Only the elite decision makers and luck will get you past that point.

in fariness, everything tkf ays is fact, much like when he told me I was an idiot for think Dirk Nowitzki had a legit shot at the Hall of Fame back in 2006 on that garabge messageboard he used to moderate

90% of the people here post that way. Why single him out?

nixluva wrote:Clearly if the Knicks had 2 guards who were performing at the level of Green and Neal, they would've been in the ECF's at the least. This is why I have been saying we need PG and SG upgrades. More Speed with handles, shooting and overall BB IQ. Guys don't have to be superstars in order to be effective. We just can't repeat the situation where we got nothing from Kidd, JR and Felton slowed down cuz he can't sustain a high level of activity. In addition we must get more movement off the ball and more willing passers. The ball just keeps moving for the Spurs. We saw the air taken out of the ball for the Knicks in the playoffs. Just can't have that happen anymore.

I agree with everything you just said 100%.

Vmart wrote:You first have to have a solid core not a faulty one. The Knicks don't have a core. The Knicks have Melo and that's about it. If you think Smith is part of the core or Felton than we have a faulty core those are role players.

I would say the core is Melo, Chandler, and Shumpert at this point. I consider it to be a solid core.

Vmart wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Vmart wrote:You first have to have a solid core not a faulty one. The Knicks don't have a core. The Knicks have Melo and that's about it. If you think Smith is part of the core or Felton than we have a faulty core those are role players.

I would say the core is Melo, Chandler, and Shumpert at this point. I consider it to be a solid core.

I don't consider Chandler a core piece to me he is like Tiago Splitter. He is a role player over priced at that.

I would agree with you to an extent. He is a glorified role player who may not be with us after his contract but his accomplishments over the past 3 years (NBA champ starting center, DPOY, all-D 1st team, All-star, olympian) indicate he is worth quite a lot. Again, that doesn't necessarily mean anything, but someone with those accomplishments would be considered a core player to any team in most cases.

But i agree, Melo and Shumpert are probably the only surefire players (not necessarily a guarantee though) who will be with us long term.

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fin89 wrote:With the end of the Knicks playoff run, many people have been talking about the need of another superstar to go alongside Melo. Instead, I watch these guys like Green, Neal, and Leonard step up in the finals. Let's be realistic, we don't have the ability to go out and get another star. Instead, we need to try to mimic the Spurs somewhat and get some of these guys who might be considered role players to step it up. I'd love to see someone like Copeland step it up and watch Shumpert continue to develop. Added ball movement would definitely help some of our other players really contribute. I think this will be our biggest challenge. We can't afford to be last in assists. I know we're never going be like Spurs who led in assists, but i'm hoping the staff tries to address the lack of ball movement in the offseason so we can get our other guys involved instead of settling for iso Melo and JR.

I agree, adding shooters and defenders is key. Copeland becomes extremely important to sign, he has a lot of the same qualities as Neal except at a different position. Shumpert should be a good 2-way player who can shoot and defend, and hopefully improve other areas as well. Also, we need to draft a skilled player who can bring some of the same qualities. The Spurs are great at adding 2-way players who can shoot and defend, and that is how you surround Melo to maximize his talent.

not really, Copeland is a tunnel vision player, he gets the ball and he looks to shoot at all cost... neal is a more cerebral player, he will pick his spots and moments... IQ level between the two doesn't seem to be close...

s how you surround Melo to maximize his talent.

How about, this is the way to build a team, I mean enough with Surrounding Melo to maximize his talent, that has been tried over and over again... your goal should be to have a team full of guys like that, carmelo doesn't fit as he is not a high IQ two way player.. the only way this works is if all of the players have talent to compliment one another... carmelo makes 20 mil a year, are you not tired of having to find guys to try and make this guy better, it should be a two way street.. Jeez.

Lets do this... Get me 5 very good, two way players ,and lets build that way, none of them making 20 mil a year to start....

It's not going to happen, so no point in discussing again and again. You will always have the unknown in your favor, but thats about it.

winning with carmelo is never going to happen, yet that doesn't stop you from rooting for him, right? so why can't I continue to plan a future without him? we all have things we wish for...

Who knows if we will win with him or not, but at least we are a winning team. Goal is to improve, not get worse. Championship aspirations aside, i enjoy being in the playoffs and winning playoff series, and want to win more.

callmened wrote:It IS POSSIBLE to find talents like Green (DLeague), Neal (DLeague) and Leonard (mid rd draft pick)

Completely agree.

loweyecue wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

callmened wrote:It IS POSSIBLE to find talents like Green (DLeague), Neal (DLeague) and Leonard (mid rd draft pick)

Completely agree.

What would they do on the Knicks? Stand around and watch MElo and JR shoot us out of gmes?

This gets back to the matter at hand. Do we want our Superstar to buy into a TEAM concept where there is ball and player movement and only when it's necessary have the ball in that Superstars hands or not? Melo has been observed and just about everyone has made the same comment about his game. It's too much ISO and that also goes for JR. It starts with the Head Coach, but the player has to buy in as well. To start the year after "Buying In" during the Olympics he started off the year with that right attitude, but Woody allowed that Team BB to erode over the season and by the playoffs we were in full ISO mode. People love to hate on Karl and MDA but they weren't wrong in this instance with Melo. Doc and Pop both agree with this TEAM BB concept as well and look at how they've succeeded.

A team's top player knowing when to take over and lead his team is a very important part of being a Superstar. We need Melo to recognize this and we need players around him that have the skills to also score when needed, but also defend and share the ball at an NBA level.