martin wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

martin wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Dagger wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:I'm still skeptical of Houston pulling that off. I for one, can not see Chris Paul forgoing the extra year he'd be eligible on his contract. As a 28 year old guy that depends on his quickness to be effective, Paul's window for a max contract closes this season, which leads me to believe that he'll maximize the last bit of leverage he has left. Theoretically, that Rocket team would be better than the current Clipper team but I don't believe by a wide enough margin for CP3 to take it seriously. I could see Howard going but he's an overrated tool; so, there is that. I personally see the Lakers bending to his whims before letting him walk though.

On a side note, if the Lakers can make a sign and trade, we should pursue Pau Gasol. I think we could leverage the situation by having the Hawks deal Josh Smith to them, who is Dwight's best friend and allegedly a guy D'Antoni likes from a skill perspective. I could see a 4 team deal getting it done, where the Lakers get Josh Smith, Steve Novak and a $4 million trade exception; the Suns would get Iman Shumpert, Zaza Pachulia and our 24th pick; the Hawks would get Marcin Gortat and Marcus Camby and we'd get Pau Gasol. Howard stays in LAL, the Hawks are able to get a similarly talented player to Smith that allows everyone to play their natural positions, the Suns get Shumpert who they love and the Knicks get their no.2 scorer that they so desperately need.

Shumpert AND our pick for washed up Gasol? I think I just vomited.

I like Shumpert, no doubt, but we tend to overvalue our young players and their impact on a game. Channing Frye was suppose to be a perennial all-star in the mold of a Rasheed Wallace. Gallinari was suppose to be Dirk. Eddy Curry was suppose to be Shaq. On and on, the inflated expectations go and none of those guys even came close to matching them. With that being said, I don't see Iman being much more than what Tony Allen currently is for the Grizzlies, which is pretty good, but never as good as what a guy like Gasol can give you. This "washed up" player averaged player efficiency rating better than +22 in the playoffs, posting 14ppg, 11.5rpg, 6.5apg. During the regular season, Gasol averaged 13.7ppg, 8.6rpg, 4.1apg and 1.2bpg while playing out of position in an offensive system that poorly compliments his skillset. By contrast, Shumpert had an effeciency rating of +11.75.

I hate the idea of giving up Shumpert but we're in win-now mode and need players capable of achieving this end. Mind you, I'd only endorse this deal if we can acquire Rajon Rondo, which I've coupled to this move in my head; without it, I'd reconsider moving Shumpert.

who is this "we" that overvalued young players. That is a sweeping statement and not even close to being true. And just because *someone* may have said something stupid doesn't mean it has anything to do with another young guy on the Knicks team.

Why do you equate Tony Allen and Shump, especially on offensive end? One can shoot from distance and the other can't. Also, you never trade a 23 year old with huge potential for someone 33 and in decline.

Amare and Gasol? Ew

I've been a member on a bunch of Knick message boards and have tons of friends that are diehard Knick fans. One of the common themes that I've seen in each group is a tendency to overvalue players by making the comparisons above. Part of the problem is that we've only drafted one real franchise changing talent in about 30-40 years so anything that remotely has talent gets trumped up as the next big thing.

Even on this message board, I've heard at least 3 or 4 guys refer to Shumpert as a "future all-star" and capable of being a no.2 caliber player on a championship team; I think you probably feel the same way since no one talks about role/complimentary players as having "huge potential". That to me is extremely far-fetched. He has shown the ability to be an elite defender but aside from that, nothing else in his game is particularly remarkable or consistent, exactly like Tony Allen. Both guys came into the league as extremely athletic combo guards that were good enough defensively to get drafted as a late first round pick. Both guys waited until their Junior/Senior year because no one was buying their "potential" as anything more than good role players. Again, I like Shumpert but I think it is unlikely that he'll be anything more than a complimentary player at best.

Since when does "huge potential" equate no 2 caliber player on championship team? Your stretches are thin, very thin. Makes your whole point not worth considering.

Shump can shoot from distance, unlike Allen, that's a WIDE disparity in comparison. As an example in playoffs: 43% is something that is way beyond "nothing particularly remarkable".

What exactly does "huge potential" refer to then? I suppose it all comes down to semantics but "huge" to me implies something "significant", "elite", "top-tier", etc. I'm not going to use the term "huge potential" for someone other than a guy that has the ability to eventually have a "huge" role/impact on my team. And if you're a title contender a "huge" role on a team is defined as someone that is somewhere between a LeBron James, Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, Tony Parker, Tim Duncan, Paul George, etc. In other words, that person would have to be a perennial all-star type talent, which is not what Shumpert is to me.

You can criticize me all you want but the fact is that Shumpert's shooting is based on a 45 game sample, without him ever coming close to be considered "the man" or a guy that teams really had to gameplan for. Even though I'm encouraged by his performance during the regular season, I'm not exactly going to think that Shumpert's defense and 45 games worth of shooting are any indication of him being anything more than a role player/complimentary player, which is exactly what Tony Allen is. For all the talk of there being a "WIDE disparity" between Allen and Shumpert, Allen's EFF during the playoffs was a +13.53 while Shumpert's was a +11.75. And in spite of Shumpert's improved jumper, Allen still showed to be just as adept at scoring the basketball during the regular season. So why should I dismiss the comparison between the two especially given the number of similarities in their background?

NardDogNation wrote:

Dagger wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:I'm still skeptical of Houston pulling that off. I for one, can not see Chris Paul forgoing the extra year he'd be eligible on his contract. As a 28 year old guy that depends on his quickness to be effective, Paul's window for a max contract closes this season, which leads me to believe that he'll maximize the last bit of leverage he has left. Theoretically, that Rocket team would be better than the current Clipper team but I don't believe by a wide enough margin for CP3 to take it seriously. I could see Howard going but he's an overrated tool; so, there is that. I personally see the Lakers bending to his whims before letting him walk though.

On a side note, if the Lakers can make a sign and trade, we should pursue Pau Gasol. I think we could leverage the situation by having the Hawks deal Josh Smith to them, who is Dwight's best friend and allegedly a guy D'Antoni likes from a skill perspective. I could see a 4 team deal getting it done, where the Lakers get Josh Smith, Steve Novak and a $4 million trade exception; the Suns would get Iman Shumpert, Zaza Pachulia and our 24th pick; the Hawks would get Marcin Gortat and Marcus Camby and we'd get Pau Gasol. Howard stays in LAL, the Hawks are able to get a similarly talented player to Smith that allows everyone to play their natural positions, the Suns get Shumpert who they love and the Knicks get their no.2 scorer that they so desperately need.

Shumpert AND our pick for washed up Gasol? I think I just vomited.

I like Shumpert, no doubt, but we tend to overvalue our young players and their impact on a game. Channing Frye was suppose to be a perennial all-star in the mold of a Rasheed Wallace. Gallinari was suppose to be Dirk. Eddy Curry was suppose to be Shaq. On and on, the inflated expectations go and none of those guys even came close to matching them. With that being said, I don't see Iman being much more than what Tony Allen currently is for the Grizzlies, which is pretty good, but never as good as what a guy like Gasol can give you. This "washed up" player averaged player efficiency rating better than +22 in the playoffs, posting 14ppg, 11.5rpg, 6.5apg. During the regular season, Gasol averaged 13.7ppg, 8.6rpg, 4.1apg and 1.2bpg while playing out of position in an offensive system that poorly compliments his skillset. By contrast, Shumpert had an effeciency rating of +11.75.

I hate the idea of giving up Shumpert but we're in win-now mode and need players capable of achieving this end. Mind you, I'd only endorse this deal if we can acquire Rajon Rondo, which I've coupled to this move in my head; without it, I'd reconsider moving Shumpert.

Why do any trade cause we always get screwed and we are the laughing pole of every team. NO NO NO.

ChuckBuck wrote:I would totally be on board to get one of Houston's scraps if this deal were to go down; IE Greg Smith, Thomas Robinson, or Patrick Beverley.

We dont have anything to give them for Thomas Robinson. Are 2018 Draft pick?

LA Lakers would be rebuilt instantly. Watch out for Showtime 2.0. They will be running and gunning. You will see Lin, Nash, Kobe, Parsons, Asik starting five. They will run everybody out of the building.

NYKBocker wrote:If Houston truly wants a Superfriends type team with Harden, CP3 and Dwight then I think Lakers have them by the short and curly. I would ask for Lin, Asik, Parsons and Greg Smith.

LA Lakers would be rebuilt instantly. Watch out for Showtime 2.0. They will be running and gunning. You will see Lin, Nash, Kobe, Parsons, Asik starting five. They will run everybody out of the building.

Yes, if I am the Lakers I am definitely asking for Parsons and even above Lin. Just Parsons Contract is appealing based on the player production. He gets paid pocket change for the next 2-3 yrs. Add on to that Parsons look plus Hollywood and you have a winner.