dk7th wrote:the best way forward is to trade carmelo anthony while he still has value. by the end of next season's playoff futility melo's value will drop significantly.

his only hope is getting in genuine nba shape, improve his footwork, devote his energy to playing defense, working on his dribble while keeping his head up so he can make plays off the dribble, and using head and ball fakes to get to the line 10-12 times a game.

if he does all these things he can help lead a team to the finals. he doesn't need help that's bullcrap-- he needs to help himself and learn how to help others, play for others. he needs to work on his game all summer long. wonder what he's up to right now. sure hope he's working on all these things.

Thank you for not even remotely answering the questions that were posed and digressing to your usual talking points.

NumberTwoPencil wrote:. . . Monta Ellis . . .

I hated Ellis when I first started watching GS but he grew on me--and I think he's grown significantly as a person/player since he skipped college to play ball. He's not a great team leader but he can play defense, share the ball, and adapt to various styles/teams. Yes, he's clearly most motivated when he's da man but he's not awful when he's the second or third option. (Note that he averages about 6 assists and 4 boards.) He is very good in a running game and he can one-on-one with the best, even if he's a few inches shorter. He's learned some nice pick and roll skills and his passing, especially after/during driving is underrated. Apparently, he doesn't have have locker room cancer (or it's in remission) and despite his missteps with a rookie Curry, he seems like an pretty good teammate. That said . . . there are parts of his game, or perhaps his understanding of the game that, like Melo, are seriously underdeveloped. His off-ball work is iffy, his game flow management (and he does tend to have the ball in hands a lot) is iffy, and his understanding of things like spacing and optimizing his teammate's games are iffy. With the right coaching maybe...maybe...he'll correct those things and be able to raise the overall level of ball on his team. Or, maybe not. I have trouble seeming Ellis playing PG with Melo and I'm not sure Felton is the right PG for Ellis to be an efficient SG. Ellis's blindspots probably wouldn't be an issue for, say, Chicago because the overall basketball intelligence and the quality of coaching is quite high. On the Knicks, however, I'd guess Ellis might work out as a kind of B-team guard but I can't see him starting and, again, I could be wrong but I wouldn't bet on Melo/Felton/Ellis working out. Also, hmmmm, I'm not sure there's any realistic way to sign Ellis without a rash of retirements.

Bynum. No.

Excellent post. Really well thought out and helped add balance to what I thought about Ellis. Serious question though, do you think Russell Westbrook has that much of an advantage on Monta Ellis? When I envisioned the Ellis-Melo pairing, it reminded me a lot of the Westbrook-Durant pairing. And with Ellis better equipped to guard PG's, I feel like the Felton-Ellis pairing would work well defensively.

dk7th wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

dk7th wrote:the best way forward is to trade carmelo anthony while he still has value. by the end of next season's playoff futility melo's value will drop significantly.

his only hope is getting in genuine nba shape, improve his footwork, devote his energy to playing defense, working on his dribble while keeping his head up so he can make plays off the dribble, and using head and ball fakes to get to the line 10-12 times a game.

if he does all these things he can help lead a team to the finals. he doesn't need help that's bullcrap-- he needs to help himself and learn how to help others, play for others. he needs to work on his game all summer long. wonder what he's up to right now. sure hope he's working on all these things.

Thank you for not even remotely answering the questions that were posed and digressing to your usual talking points.

your premise of "swinging for the fences" as in somehow acquiring ellis and bynum-- is so wrong it's perverse. ellis is a classic zero-sum or negative-sum player. pretty much a bum and i never want to see him playing in a knick uniform. that you have a fantasy of actually wanting him here to play with another zero-sum player just compounds knick failure. bynum is not interested in playing basketball. he's an injury-prone, low character waste of space, closer to an eddy curry.

better?

Reading comprehension is key to this argument. I never stated that I wanted either Ellis or Bynum; I never even suggested as much. The board is in unison that the Knicks need another star caliber player next to Melo and I was wondering if people thought either of these guys could remotely fit the bill. Both Bynum and Ellis are young, AVAILABLE, and have been former all-star candidates, making my inquiry an appropriate one.

P.S., how the hell do you know Ellis is of "low character". You've probably never met the guy and are basing these assumptions on what? He's from a lower socioeconomic background? Because he's not a carbon copy of Wayne Brady?

dk7th wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

dk7th wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

dk7th wrote:the best way forward is to trade carmelo anthony while he still has value. by the end of next season's playoff futility melo's value will drop significantly.

his only hope is getting in genuine nba shape, improve his footwork, devote his energy to playing defense, working on his dribble while keeping his head up so he can make plays off the dribble, and using head and ball fakes to get to the line 10-12 times a game.

if he does all these things he can help lead a team to the finals. he doesn't need help that's bullcrap-- he needs to help himself and learn how to help others, play for others. he needs to work on his game all summer long. wonder what he's up to right now. sure hope he's working on all these things.

Thank you for not even remotely answering the questions that were posed and digressing to your usual talking points.

your premise of "swinging for the fences" as in somehow acquiring ellis and bynum-- is so wrong it's perverse. ellis is a classic zero-sum or negative-sum player. pretty much a bum and i never want to see him playing in a knick uniform. that you have a fantasy of actually wanting him here to play with another zero-sum player just compounds knick failure. bynum is not interested in playing basketball. he's an injury-prone, low character waste of space, closer to an eddy curry.

better?

Reading comprehension is key to this argument. I never stated that I wanted either Ellis or Bynum; I never even suggested as much. The board is in unison that the Knicks need another star caliber player next to Melo and I was wondering if people thought either of these guys could remotely fit the bill. Both Bynum and Ellis are young, AVAILABLE, and have been former all-star candidates, making my inquiry an appropriate one.

P.S., how the hell do you know Ellis is of "low character". You've probably never met the guy and are basing these assumptions on what? He's from a lower socioeconomic background? Because he's not a carbon copy of Wayne Brady?

talking about his game not his personhood off the floor. his game and his floor impact tell me he is low-character as a player. high character guys are unselfish and play defense and play FOR others. you can be a great guy off the floor like jamal crawford but a total douche on the floor.

SupremeCommander wrote:I'd say acquiring Ellis would be like hitting a double and acquiring Bynum would be like getting hit by a pitch

SupremeCommander wrote:I'd say acquiring Ellis would be like hitting a double and acquiring Bynum would be like getting hit by a pitch

Either way, you'd still get on base. LOL.

SupremeCommander wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I'd say acquiring Ellis would be like hitting a double and acquiring Bynum would be like getting hit by a pitch

Either way, you'd still get on base. LOL.

that was kind of my point but I don't think either move would be the equivalent of trading for Melo or signing Amar'e

Bynum on a one year deal where he wants to be in a place to ressurect his career and start off on the bench might be a good idea for him if the money is not there. I don't know what his prognosis is or if he is the man-child sometimes reported. Does that Mean NY? I don't know.

we can't take guys who want to be paid. We can take defective players trying to earn some cred like JR is trying to do, or what Blatch did in Brooklyn.

This was a good year to do what we and I thought by going old and experienced we did go for it. 54 wins is nothing to sneeze at but its not that 57-62 win area that is usually where you find the elite contenders.

The somber in me says we swung for the fences to c.ockblock the Nets. We developed nobody this year other than Copeland who I feel is getting more love on the threads then reality dictates.

If there is a way to bring in some help Im sure we'll try. I just got a bad feeling that we went for it this year and depleted assets. Those 2nd rounders can be projects that can really be valuable down the road.

Sure, Amare comes off the books one day but unless we COMPLIMENT the starphuch with good role players we can be a fun team, but not a serious one.

dk7th wrote:the best way forward is to trade carmelo anthony while he still has value. by the end of next season's playoff futility melo's value will drop significantly.

his only hope is getting in genuine nba shape, improve his footwork, devote his energy to playing defense, working on his dribble while keeping his head up so he can make plays off the dribble, and using head and ball fakes to get to the line 10-12 times a game.

if he does all these things he can help lead a team to the finals. he doesn't need help that's bullcrap-- he needs to help himself and learn how to help others, play for others. he needs to work on his game all summer long. wonder what he's up to right now. sure hope he's working on all these things.

I hope he is resting and getting healthy now, not working on his game. I have to say i disagree with everything you have stated and believe most of it is inaccurate. Melo was in great shape this season, improved his defense, and gets to the line a lot. And to say he doesn't need help, then say the same about Durant and call him a miserable failure this playoff season. And to say his value will drop next year, you have no proof of. All of your statements are just hate of a player, and aren't facts of any sort. Melo is getting the same treatment Ewing got later in his career. I would think most people would have learned from that, but i guess not. Keep your opinions in the "i hate Melo" threads and stop flooding the ones that have value to improving this team.

dk7th wrote:the best way forward is to trade carmelo anthony while he still has value. by the end of next season's playoff futility melo's value will drop significantly.

his only hope is getting in genuine nba shape, improve his footwork, devote his energy to playing defense, working on his dribble while keeping his head up so he can make plays off the dribble, and using head and ball fakes to get to the line 10-12 times a game.

if he does all these things he can help lead a team to the finals. he doesn't need help that's bullcrap-- he needs to help himself and learn how to help others, play for others. he needs to work on his game all summer long. wonder what he's up to right now. sure hope he's working on all these things.

Dk, I said this to another poster.. I think camelo will best help a team as he gets older and his role can be reduced. He is a gunner, a shooter, nothing more.. as a 6th man, on the right team, i think he can be a real weapon.. ala Jamal crawford.. I know people don't want to hear that, but I think that will be where he sees the most success, as a team in his whole career..