Bonn1997 wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:This really says it all:

Supporting cast FG% in 2nd round:
Durant: .390
Melo: .400 (including JR)

Assists per game:
Durant: 7
Melo: 1

Nice rounding Melo's #'s down and Durant #'s up.

Durant Assists Playoffs per game:
2010    2.3
2011    2.8
2012    3.7
2013    6.3
Melo Assists Playoffs per game:
2004	2.8
2005	2.0
2006	2.8
2007	1.2
2008	2.0
2009	4.1
2010	3.3
2011	4.8
2012	2.2
2013	1.6

No a big difference to me.

Your #s are incorrect. You must have missed the bold part above.

So you decided to post the stats of the 2nd round when the other players excluding Melo went cold. CLASSIC.

What do those stats prove?

Bonn1997 wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

callmened wrote:Melo ISNT a passer...hes a gunner...but thats ok...so was kobe and MJ...you can WIN with gunners. The problem is since hes SO one dimensional he needs A LOTTTTTT of help. he needs guys who can create for themselves or others cuz melo cant do that. it is what it is. Not worth talking about passing or assists...thats not melo's game. Hes a finisher, a gunner

So Melo doesnt rebound, defend, or make plays? Come on now.

Melo does all of those but at a below average level.

According to what?

AnubisADL wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

callmened wrote:Melo ISNT a passer...hes a gunner...but thats ok...so was kobe and MJ...you can WIN with gunners. The problem is since hes SO one dimensional he needs A LOTTTTTT of help. he needs guys who can create for themselves or others cuz melo cant do that. it is what it is. Not worth talking about passing or assists...thats not melo's game. Hes a finisher, a gunner

So Melo doesnt rebound, defend, or make plays? Come on now.

Melo does all of those but at a below average level.

According to what?

Melo got out-rebounded by about 1 to 1.5 rbs per 48 min at both forward positions last year. His defensive ratings (points given up per 100 possessions) were a little below average. His assist turnover ratio is bad. I could go on but you get the picture or at least you should.

Bonn1997 wrote:That's a reasonable question. Why not wait for the answer instead of using demeaning sarcasm ("classic")?
The answer is simply that we're talking about how the players perform when they have no supporting cast. Durant had Westbrook for half of the first round. So I excluded that. This is all a desperate distraction, though. If we go with the 6.3 and 1.6 #s, heck if we go with any numbers from Melo's career other than when he played for MDA, the conclusion is the same - Melo is a ball-stopper.

You saying he is a ball stopper doesnt prove anything.

So why do Melo and Durant have the same career averages when it comes to assists per game?

Yet,
The Knicks are dead last, behind all 8 teams that got bounced in the first round.
The Grizz and the Pacers, nearly as horrific, make it to the Conf Finals.

Go figure.

And the Knicks as a team rank right in the middle of the playoff for both assists and assists allowed.

This makes me almost as happy as winning the division and making it to the 2nd round!

Bonn1997 wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

callmened wrote:Melo ISNT a passer...hes a gunner...but thats ok...so was kobe and MJ...you can WIN with gunners. The problem is since hes SO one dimensional he needs A LOTTTTTT of help. he needs guys who can create for themselves or others cuz melo cant do that. it is what it is. Not worth talking about passing or assists...thats not melo's game. Hes a finisher, a gunner

So Melo doesnt rebound, defend, or make plays? Come on now.

Melo does all of those but at a below average level.

According to what?

All available evidence.

Melo got out-rebounded by about 1 to 1.5 rbs per 48 min at both forward positions last year. His defensive ratings (points given up per 100 possessions) were a little below average. His assist turnover ratio is bad. I could go on but you get the picture or at least you should.

Are you using his rebounds at the pf to explain how he got out rebounded by sfs too when you have not shown any real evidence that players increase there rebound numbers as they move to sf to pf. Have you posted those number somewhere else? DId I miss it.

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

callmened wrote:Melo ISNT a passer...hes a gunner...but thats ok...so was kobe and MJ...you can WIN with gunners. The problem is since hes SO one dimensional he needs A LOTTTTTT of help. he needs guys who can create for themselves or others cuz melo cant do that. it is what it is. Not worth talking about passing or assists...thats not melo's game. Hes a finisher, a gunner

So Melo doesnt rebound, defend, or make plays? Come on now.

Melo does all of those but at a below average level.

According to what?

All available evidence.

Melo got out-rebounded by about 1 to 1.5 rbs per 48 min at both forward positions last year. His defensive ratings (points given up per 100 possessions) were a little below average. His assist turnover ratio is bad. I could go on but you get the picture or at least you should.

Are you using his rebounds at the pf to explain how he got out rebounded by sfs too when you have not shown any real evidence that players increase there rebound numbers as they move to sf to pf. Have you posted those number somewhere else? DId I miss it.

You may have missed it. In 331 min at SF, he got out-rebounded last year pretty badly. At PF, he got out-rebounded too. Maybe 331 min is too little but the point is there's no available evidence indicating that rebounding is still a strength of his or even something he is adequate at. Besides, the fact that he was undersized by an inch at PF is a bad excuse anyway, but we probably don't need to go there again!

oh yeah, I remember that to small of sample. Serious just waking up. How does those 331 minutes compare to his many years as an sf? undersized by an inch and 20-30 lbs but lest not go there. I agree.

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

callmened wrote:Melo ISNT a passer...hes a gunner...but thats ok...so was kobe and MJ...you can WIN with gunners. The problem is since hes SO one dimensional he needs A LOTTTTTT of help. he needs guys who can create for themselves or others cuz melo cant do that. it is what it is. Not worth talking about passing or assists...thats not melo's game. Hes a finisher, a gunner

So Melo doesnt rebound, defend, or make plays? Come on now.

Melo does all of those but at a below average level.

According to what?

All available evidence.

Melo got out-rebounded by about 1 to 1.5 rbs per 48 min at both forward positions last year. His defensive ratings (points given up per 100 possessions) were a little below average. His assist turnover ratio is bad. I could go on but you get the picture or at least you should.

Are you using his rebounds at the pf to explain how he got out rebounded by sfs too when you have not shown any real evidence that players increase there rebound numbers as they move to sf to pf. Have you posted those number somewhere else? DId I miss it.

You may have missed it. In 331 min at SF, he got out-rebounded last year pretty badly. At PF, he got out-rebounded too. Maybe 331 min is too little but the point is there's no available evidence indicating that rebounding is still a strength of his or even something he is adequate at. Besides, the fact that he was undersized by an inch at PF is a bad excuse anyway, but we probably don't need to go there again!

oh yeah, I remember that to small of sample. Serious just waking up. How does those 331 minutes compare to his many years as an sf? undersized by an inch and 20-30 lbs but lest not go there. I agree.

251 is not undersized but let's not go there. Let's keep going there and then say let's not go there.

"How does those 331 minutes compare to his many years as an sf?"
Poorly. Melo used to be a good rebounder at SF but his game in all non-scoring areas has declined. He's older and has much more wear and tear than most players in their peak. So this should not be surprising. (The average player statistically peaks at 24 although there isn't a big decline until the late 20s.)

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

callmened wrote:Melo ISNT a passer...hes a gunner...but thats ok...so was kobe and MJ...you can WIN with gunners. The problem is since hes SO one dimensional he needs A LOTTTTTT of help. he needs guys who can create for themselves or others cuz melo cant do that. it is what it is. Not worth talking about passing or assists...thats not melo's game. Hes a finisher, a gunner

So Melo doesnt rebound, defend, or make plays? Come on now.

Melo does all of those but at a below average level.

According to what?

All available evidence.

Melo got out-rebounded by about 1 to 1.5 rbs per 48 min at both forward positions last year. His defensive ratings (points given up per 100 possessions) were a little below average. His assist turnover ratio is bad. I could go on but you get the picture or at least you should.

Are you using his rebounds at the pf to explain how he got out rebounded by sfs too when you have not shown any real evidence that players increase there rebound numbers as they move to sf to pf. Have you posted those number somewhere else? DId I miss it.

You may have missed it. In 331 min at SF, he got out-rebounded last year pretty badly. At PF, he got out-rebounded too. Maybe 331 min is too little but the point is there's no available evidence indicating that rebounding is still a strength of his or even something he is adequate at. Besides, the fact that he was undersized by an inch at PF is a bad excuse anyway, but we probably don't need to go there again!

oh yeah, I remember that to small of sample. Serious just waking up. How does those 331 minutes compare to his many years as an sf? undersized by an inch and 20-30 lbs but lest not go there. I agree.

251 is not undersized but let's not go there. Let's keep going there and then say let's not go there.

"How does those 331 minutes compare to his many years as an sf?"
Poorly. Melo used to be a good rebounder at SF but his game in all non-scoring areas has declined. He's older and has much more wear and tear than most players in their peak. So this should not be surprising. (The average player statistically peaks at 24 although there isn't a big decline until the late 20s.)

251: So you posted an article that was written in June about Melo being 239, when he was just beginning his weight loss. Even though you posted evidence to the contrary of what you just now posted saying he played at 251? odd This really looks 250 lbs brute.

AnubisADL wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:There's an OT question! To answer your question, though, I would not call poor shooting in 1 1/2 games "steady decline." I would call it random variation or fluctuation.

Durants FG% in the 2nd round

Game 1 0.500
Game 2 0.524
Game 3 0.474
Game 4 0.370
Game 5 0.238

Durants TS% in the 2nd round

Game 1 0.576
Game 2 0.685
Game 3 0.544
Game 4 0.477
Game 5 0.380

Looks like a steady decline to me.

AnubisADL wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:There's an OT question! To answer your question, though, I would not call poor shooting in 1 1/2 games "steady decline." I would call it random variation or fluctuation.

Durants FG% in the 2nd round

Game 1 0.500
Game 2 0.524
Game 3 0.474
Game 4 0.370
Game 5 0.238

Durants TS% in the 2nd round

Game 1 0.576
Game 2 0.685
Game 3 0.544
Game 4 0.477
Game 5 0.380

Looks like a steady decline to me.

Yes, I understand that you're interpreting 1 1/2 bad games as steady decline. However, you asked me how I interpreted it, and I just gave you my answer.

It was probably fatigue from his increased high usage. If 5 games did that to his efficiency imagine what a full season would do. Im just saying.

It could be fatigue. It could be random fluctuation. Maybe he had a virus. Maybe he had a minor injury. There are so many possible factors at work. Any attempt to meaningfully project from 1 1/2 games is a bad idea. To be clear, I do think that if you make him the point forward for a full season, his scoring would be less efficient than it was with Westbrook but I also think his scoring efficiency, total points, and passing numbers would still be quite impressive (including way better than what Melo gives).