Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Yes, you are missing something. You're supposed to drastically overvalue a sample of a little over a dozen games (Tyson's post-season in NYC). Otherwise you won't fit in here.

How does his other post seasons compare?

Maybe marginally worse than his regular season career - about 10 1/2 rather than 11 1/2 rbs per 36 min. Similar scoring efficiency but fewer shot attempts. Similar blocks.

4.9 defensive rebs is a problem. Well 5.9 per 36 is still a problem. Also, do you think his lack of offensive skills contribute to his decrease shot attempts? Tyson is good but put most centers in his role and they will perform the same offensively and perhaps defensively.

Not a big deal because sites sometimes have different numbers but BR has him at 10 not 10.5 but does have him at 11.5 for the reg. season

You can't just put anyone at the C spot on this team and see them be the most efficient scorer and best offensive rebounder in the league. That's ridiculous.
It's hard to say why he got about 1.5 less shots per game in the post-season. It's probably just random fluctuation in his #s.
The issue I have with the trade proposals on here is that Tyson at his best is better than any of the players people want to trade him for. Tyson at his best actually could be a difference maker in the post-season. Guys like Deandre Jordan and Pekovic aren't going to put us over the top but Tyson could.
I don't have enough info. about Tyson's condition to say that I'd definitely keep him, though. I'd need to get all the info. from the team doctors to figure out what went wrong this post-season.

You seriously don't think Camby could have given us more than what Chandler did this entire play offs?
We could sign Jermaine Oneal for vet min and regain the 5m MLE to use on 2 players that could easily replace what Tyson gave us in addition to 2m bi annual exemption
I would no hesitate if I can get a deal done with Portland with 2nd rounders and the above with the trade exemption plus the percs of being under the tax threshold

If we had to blame one player, Tyson's Chandler gets the most blame in my opinion, his inability to defend Hibbert 1v1 and while Hibbert defended him and the paint with ease
I think Woodson deserves the most blame with the utilization of lineups and not making adjustments in calling plays and putting his players in an advantage to succeed as a team
Grunwald SHOULD hire an OFFENSIVE Coach for my input on the team like Brian Shaw or SA's assistant just like Woodson was hired for Dantoni's lack of DEF
I am sorry but I don't care what he has done in the regular season, his lack of adjustments, playmaking, holding players accountable, and minute distribution was just HORRIBLE

IF Hibbert is defending the paint and we can't get in there for easy shots and we cannot stop him from getting offensive boards, USE OTHER PLAYERS instead of just staring off to space meanly

Vogel was wrong by crapping on Woodson but he is 100% right, he is a MORON!
Especially when Copeland had success vs Pacers when we blew em out a month earlier as they were unable to defend 5 shooters as Vogel said was hard to defend in the post game of the regular season game
Why change something if it isn't broke?
Copeland was off to a great start in the late season run, instead opting to use Amare that has not played in 3 months and has even WORSE DEF and is not in game shape

We are not getting ALL STAR caliber deals for Tyson Chandler when his contract is at 14m for 2 more years after, lets be realistic!
Take the 2nd round picks and just move on, telling Chandler to develop into Pekovic now is just not realistic?
Whether he can regain his strength/agility/athleticism/speed + mobility is the biggest question at his age of 30+ since coming out of high school with much mileage used already
There was lack of heart, even in the "Mike Woodson show" he points out Chandler is not rolling to the basket time after time for the offensive rebound after the pick, making himself USELESS when he isn't even being defended
If we do not move him and he still sucks, his contract will be right next to Amare's...

I called for trading STAT for KG before he fully broke down and now I am saying the same thing about Chandler
NO ONE agreed with me at the time and put me on blast, with months later "PAU GASOL"
Well, I hope I am wrong but I hope the Knicks test out what his value is to OTHER TEAMS, it surely isn't as high as what most of the people want it to be...

RonRon wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Yes, you are missing something. You're supposed to drastically overvalue a sample of a little over a dozen games (Tyson's post-season in NYC). Otherwise you won't fit in here.

How does his other post seasons compare?

Maybe marginally worse than his regular season career - about 10 1/2 rather than 11 1/2 rbs per 36 min. Similar scoring efficiency but fewer shot attempts. Similar blocks.

4.9 defensive rebs is a problem. Well 5.9 per 36 is still a problem. Also, do you think his lack of offensive skills contribute to his decrease shot attempts? Tyson is good but put most centers in his role and they will perform the same offensively and perhaps defensively.

Not a big deal because sites sometimes have different numbers but BR has him at 10 not 10.5 but does have him at 11.5 for the reg. season

You can't just put anyone at the C spot on this team and see them be the most efficient scorer and best offensive rebounder in the league. That's ridiculous.
It's hard to say why he got about 1.5 less shots per game in the post-season. It's probably just random fluctuation in his #s.
The issue I have with the trade proposals on here is that Tyson at his best is better than any of the players people want to trade him for. Tyson at his best actually could be a difference maker in the post-season. Guys like Deandre Jordan and Pekovic aren't going to put us over the top but Tyson could.
I don't have enough info. about Tyson's condition to say that I'd definitely keep him, though. I'd need to get all the info. from the team doctors to figure out what went wrong this post-season.

You seriously don't think Camby could have given us more than what Chandler did this entire play offs?
We could sign Jermaine Oneal for vet min and regain the 5m MLE to use on 2 players that could easily replace what Tyson gave us in addition to 2m bi annual exemption
I would no hesitate if I can get a deal done with Portland with 2nd rounders and the above with the trade exemption plus the percs of being under the tax threshold

If we had to blame one player, Tyson's Chandler gets the most blame in my opinion, his inability to defend Hibbert 1v1 and while Hibbert defended him and the paint with ease
I think Woodson deserves the most blame with the utilization of lineups and not making adjustments in calling plays and putting his players in an advantage to succeed as a team
Grunwald SHOULD hire an OFFENSIVE Coach for my input on the team like Brian Shaw or SA's assistant just like Woodson was hired for Dantoni's lack of DEF
I am sorry but I don't care what he has done in the regular season, his lack of adjustments, playmaking, holding players accountable, and minute distribution was just HORRIBLE

IF Hibbert is defending the paint and we can't get in there for easy shots and we cannot stop him from getting offensive boards, USE OTHER PLAYERS instead of just staring off to space meanly

Vogel was wrong by crapping on Woodson but he is 100% right, he is a MORON!
Especially when Copeland had success vs Pacers when we blew em out a month earlier as they were unable to defend 5 shooters as Vogel said was hard to defend in the post game of the regular season game
Why change something if it isn't broke?
Copeland was off to a great start in the late season run, instead opting to use Amare that has not played in 3 months and has even WORSE DEF and is not in game shape

We are not getting ALL STAR caliber deals for Tyson Chandler when his contract is at 14m for 2 more years after, lets be realistic!
Take the 2nd round picks and just move on, telling Chandler to develop into Pekovic now is just not realistic?
Whether he can regain his strength/agility/athleticism/speed + mobility is the biggest question at his age of 30+ since coming out of high school with much mileage used already
There was lack of heart, even in the "Mike Woodson show" he points out Chandler is not rolling to the basket time after time for the offensive rebound after the pick, making himself USELESS when he isn't even being defended
If we do not move him and he still sucks, his contract will be right next to Amare's...

I called for trading STAT for KG before he fully broke down and now I am saying the same thing about Chandler
NO ONE agreed with me at the time and put me on blast, with months later "PAU GASOL"
Well, I hope I am wrong but I hope the Knicks test out what his value is to OTHER TEAMS, it surely isn't as high as what most of the people want it to be...

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Yes, you are missing something. You're supposed to drastically overvalue a sample of a little over a dozen games (Tyson's post-season in NYC). Otherwise you won't fit in here.

How does his other post seasons compare?

Maybe marginally worse than his regular season career - about 10 1/2 rather than 11 1/2 rbs per 36 min. Similar scoring efficiency but fewer shot attempts. Similar blocks.

4.9 defensive rebs is a problem. Well 5.9 per 36 is still a problem. Also, do you think his lack of offensive skills contribute to his decrease shot attempts? Tyson is good but put most centers in his role and they will perform the same offensively and perhaps defensively.

Not a big deal because sites sometimes have different numbers but BR has him at 10 not 10.5 but does have him at 11.5 for the reg. season

You can't just put anyone at the C spot on this team and see them be the most efficient scorer and best offensive rebounder in the league. That's ridiculous.
It's hard to say why he got about 1.5 less shots per game in the post-season. It's probably just random fluctuation in his #s.
The issue I have with the trade proposals on here is that Tyson at his best is better than any of the players people want to trade him for. Tyson at his best actually could be a difference maker in the post-season. Guys like Deandre Jordan and Pekovic aren't going to put us over the top but Tyson could.
I don't have enough info. about Tyson's condition to say that I'd definitely keep him, though. I'd need to get all the info. from the team doctors to figure out what went wrong this post-season.

The reason why he is so efficient is because he doesn't take other shots besides at the rim. You restrict most centers games down to what Tyson does and they will be super efficient too. Small sample size but look what happen when you put a 6'8 center in Tyson role on offense and how his efficiency went up.

Also, it is not just about Jordan and Peko or another center. It is about the possible other players that come with them from the trade and possibly from the full MLE.

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Yes, you are missing something. You're supposed to drastically overvalue a sample of a little over a dozen games (Tyson's post-season in NYC). Otherwise you won't fit in here.

How does his other post seasons compare?

Maybe marginally worse than his regular season career - about 10 1/2 rather than 11 1/2 rbs per 36 min. Similar scoring efficiency but fewer shot attempts. Similar blocks.

4.9 defensive rebs is a problem. Well 5.9 per 36 is still a problem. Also, do you think his lack of offensive skills contribute to his decrease shot attempts? Tyson is good but put most centers in his role and they will perform the same offensively and perhaps defensively.

Not a big deal because sites sometimes have different numbers but BR has him at 10 not 10.5 but does have him at 11.5 for the reg. season

You can't just put anyone at the C spot on this team and see them be the most efficient scorer and best offensive rebounder in the league. That's ridiculous.
It's hard to say why he got about 1.5 less shots per game in the post-season. It's probably just random fluctuation in his #s.
The issue I have with the trade proposals on here is that Tyson at his best is better than any of the players people want to trade him for. Tyson at his best actually could be a difference maker in the post-season. Guys like Deandre Jordan and Pekovic aren't going to put us over the top but Tyson could.
I don't have enough info. about Tyson's condition to say that I'd definitely keep him, though. I'd need to get all the info. from the team doctors to figure out what went wrong this post-season.

The reason why he is so efficient is because he doesn't take other shots besides at the rim. You restrict most centers games down to what Tyson does and they will be super efficient too. Small sample size but look what happen when you put a 6'8 center in Tyson role on offense and how his efficiency went up.

Also, it is not just about Jordan and Peko or another center. It is about the possible other players that come with them from the trade and possibly from the full MLE.

It took you awhile Yellowboy, but I think you finally get what I have been saying, it is NOT ABOUT 1 trade, it is about opening up the abilities to add the talent needed in many other positions with the draft picks/cap space/being under the tax

5m MLE can be split on 2 players

2m Bi annual exemption

We could keep Copeland if we move Chandler but if not we have to use our mini MLE for any deal which is NOT worth it for our roster....

yellowboy90 wrote:I saw this on another board but a point I kinda raised a while ago.

Chandler: 5 fga at rim, 69.3 % fg, 72.8 % assisted.
Shots outside the rim area per game: .8
efg%: .638

Blake Griffin: 5.5 fga at rim, 76.7 % fg, 69.3 % assisted.
Shots outside of the rim area per game: 7.5
efg%: 542

Serge Ibaka: 3.4 fga at rim, 77.8 % fg, 65.7 % assisted.
Shots outside the rim area per game: 6
efg%: 586

DeAndre Jordan: 4.3 fga at rim, 73.2 % fg, 68 % assisted.
Shots outside the rim area per game: 1.5
efg%: 606

Kevin Garnett: 2.4 fga at rim, 77 % fg, 75.6 % assisted.
Shots outside rim area per game: 9.1
efg%: 498

Amar’e Stoudemire (averaging 9 fewer mpg): 4.4 fga at rim, 68.4 % fg, 61 % assisted.
Shots outside rim area per game: 3.4
efg %: 577

Tim Duncan: 4.7 fga at rim, 71.8% fg, 64.6 % assisted.
Shots outside rim area per game: 8.6
efg%: 503

Brook Lopez: 6.3 fga at rim, 69.4 % fg, 62.2 % assisted.
Shots outside rim area per game: 7.6
efg%: 521

DeMarcus Cousins: 6 fga at rim, 64.3 % fg, 46 % assisted.
Shots outside rim area per game: 7.5
efg%: 467

Nikola Pekovic: 7.4 fga at rim, 62.8% fg, 65 % assisted.
Shots outside of rim area per game: 3.9
efg %: 520

LeMarcus Aldridge: 4.1 fga at rim, 71.2 % fg, 49.8 % assisted.
Shots outside of rim area per game: 12.5
efg%: 485

Greg Monroe: 7.5 fga at rim, 62 % fg, 51 % assisted.
Shots outside of rim area per game: 5
efg% 486

Dwight Howard: 6.8 fga at rim, 70.4 % fg, 70.3 % assisted.
Shots outside of rim area per game: 3.5
efg% 579

JaVale McGee: 4 fga at rim, 71.8 fg %, 66.8 % assisted.
Shots outside of rim area per game: 1.9
efg % 576

Kenneth Faried: 5.6 fga at rim, 66.3 % fg, 66.4 % assisted.
Shots outside of rim area per game: 2.5
efg % 552

Kosta Koufos (8 fewer minutes): 4.2 fga at rim, 66.7 % fg, 70.1 % assisted.
Shots outside of rim area per game: 1.8
efg % 581

Anderson Verajeo: 5.8 fga at rim, 62.5 % fg, 51.8 % assisted.
Shots outside of rim area per game: 5.4
efg% 478

Al Jefferson: 4.1 fga at rim, 73.7 % fg, 49.8 % assisted.
Shots outside of rim area per game: 11.7
efg% 495

Chris Bosh: 3.8 fga at rim, 75.5 % fg, 69.9 % assisted.
Shots outside of rim area per game: 8.1
efg% 546

Al Horford: 5.2 fga at rim, 76.6 % fg, 76 % assisted.
Shots outside of rim area per game: 5.6
efg% 545

Those data are actually pretty impressive and I'd partly concede the point. I would point out though that that means only 4 bigs in the league took as many shots and hit them as effectively at the rim as Tyson - and that includes the 2nd half of the season, which brought Tyson's #s down.

Marion (expiring)
Carter (expiring)
Brandon Wright or Kaman in sign and trade that we need to be under the tax threshold to do
and their 1st round pick *PICK 13*(which they said they are willing to part with to clear salary for max FA's)
Shane Larkin should be available with this pick or Kelly Olynicks in addition to our 1st round pick which I would love Giannes Ademtenko *could choose to stash in Europe for salary reasons as his body will continue to mature/develop, if he is not available trade down with Cleveland for their top 2 2nd round picks or to another team for future draft picks with a early 2nd round pick/late 1st rounder, maybe target Muscala or/and Arhcie Goodwin/Pierre Jackson*

if it is agreed on principle

and we use the 5m MLE first (on one or 2 players), and 2m Bi Annual Exemption (Jermine Oneal, Chris Anderson, Matt Barnes, Dunleavey)

Maybe we would finally have the pieces to be legit contenders around Anthony
All for the price of Chandler to start with

Don't tell me Chandler is worth all of the above
4get what you think Chandler is and what he should bring us back, think how many moves can be the stepping stone for future deals that we have NO WAY in improving for our future and for these next couple of years till 2015 to keep us competitive because it was obvious we were missing talent and we have no way of improving till 2015 without assets/being under the tax

When we say Grunwald has to be creative, it is moves like this that can bring us over the top
We don't have the assets for trades and the luxury of doing sign and trades by being over the tax threshold
We have to start somewhere and Chandler is the only one that we can use besides Melo because STAT is not going to bring us back anything of good positive value

IF Portland is willing to take Novak's contract, I would be more than happy to receive less picks to compensate for it as well

Heck if all of these above can be completed, we would be in the Cp3 sweepstakes with the assets and players to add up for the salary for him as well

RonRon wrote:Portland says they want a legit C to play alongside Aldridge
and
for picks 39,40 *2 PG's should be available here, maybe Wolters, EuroWestbrook, or Nate Robinson's twin*,45 *Jamelle Hagins, Ryan Kelly, or Brandon Daveis*, and draft rights back for Pap

For instance, what if we turn that exception of 14m to Dallas for

Marion (expiring)
Carter (expiring)
Brandon Wright or Kaman in sign and trade that we need to be under the tax threshold to do
and their 1st round pick *PICK 13*(which they said they are willing to part with to clear salary for max FA's)
Shane Larkin should be available with this pick or Kelly Olynicks in addition to our 1st round pick which I would love Giannes Ademtenko *could choose to stash in Europe for salary reasons as his body will continue to mature/develop, if he is not available trade down with Cleveland for their top 2 2nd round picks or to another team for future draft picks with a early 2nd round pick/late 1st rounder, maybe target Muscala or/and Arhcie Goodwin/Pierre Jackson*

if it is agreed on principle

and we use the 5m MLE first (on one or 2 players), and 2m Bi Annual Exemption (Jermine Oneal, Chris Anderson, Matt Barnes, Dunleavey)

Maybe we would finally have the pieces to be legit contenders around Anthony
All for the price of Chandler to start with

Don't tell me Chandler is worth all of the above
4get what you think Chandler is and what he should bring us back, think how many moves can be the stepping stone for future deals that we have NO WAY in improving for our future and for these next couple of years till 2015 to keep us competitive because it was obvious we were missing talent and we have no way of improving till 2015 without assets/being under the tax

When we say Grunwald has to be creative, it is moves like this that can bring us over the top
We don't have the assets for trades and the luxury of doing sign and trades by being over the tax threshold
We have to start somewhere and Chandler is the only one that we can use besides Melo because STAT is not going to bring us back anything of good positive value

IF Portland is willing to take Novak's contract, I would be more than happy to receive less picks to compensate for it as well

Heck if all of these above can be completed, we would be in the Cp3 sweepstakes with the assets and players to add up for the salary for him as well

You're basically saying an all first team defensive player has the same value as Camby did last year. Come on now.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/9299616/nba-playoffs-2013-new-york-knicks-getting-older-not-better

Kevin Love, Minnesota Timberwolves. An offer of Chandler and Shumpert for Love would work under NBA cap laws. "If I'm Minnesota, I would definitely think about that one," one executive said. "I don't know if I'd do it, but I'd consider it. Love's had injury issues, and he can opt out in the summer of 2015. I don't know if he wants to spend the rest of his career there."

A second executive cautioned that such a deal would be more likely if the ousted Timberwolves president, David Kahn, were still in place rather than the newcomer, Flip Saunders. Minnesota also has a talented center in Nikola Pekovic, a restricted free agent, whose signing would eliminate any need for Chandler. "People in the league still value Chandler, despite what happened in the Indiana series, and Shumpert is a very good young player with a very good contract," the second executive said. "The Knicks could package those two, but I don't see Flip doing anything. Love sees himself as a big star, he wants the big stage and he's got the personality for New York, but I don't see Minnesota considering something like that now. Maybe in February at the trade deadline."

Tyson will not get an Aldrige, Love, or CP3 but he can get a starter and a 1st rd pick or two starters. Jordan and Bledsoe/25th pick should be the goal. Jordan to the Blazers to get the assets you listed and the 10th pick. Both teams are desperate.

chewy wrote:Two trades I have in mind is Tyson for Anderson Varejao and 19th pick in this year draft. Or Tyson for Deandre Jordan and Bledsoe.

The Cavs want to trade Varejao and thinking about drafting Potter #1 overall. That will also save the knicks 5 mil dollars bc Varejao is only 8+ mil this year.

The Clippers will get one of CP3 best friends and they was going to make that same trade for an older KG.

callmened wrote:My question is...how disappointed will fans be when none of this happns? Im 90% sure that there will be no trades involving tyson. One can argue that they should trade him but its not likely to happn.

I'm 100% sure a Tyson trade won't happen. A player has a bad playoffs and somehow people erase his entire history. He's a good center- didn't play as well this year as he did last season, but he wasn't the disaster people are making out.

"Speaking with two sources familiar with the Knicks' potential free-agency plans, the bottom line is this: Don't expect many changes. They will try to improve and enhance their core," one source said. "They have eight players under contract and they will re-sign J.R. [Smith], making it nine. Then it's the mid-level [of $3.18 million] and minimum salary guys who want a chance to prove themselves."

Again, I know Dolan and the knicks tend to hide things but I actually believe this to be the case. They wont move tyson due to a few bad playoff games. Hes still a SOLID starter