AnubisADL wrote:I posted this in another thread.

I wouldn't put it past Grunwald to pull the trigger on a Shumpert trade to get back multiple pieces that can contribute now.

Chandler and Shumpert
for
Gortat, Beasley, and Dudley

Is that a joke??..Give Grunwald a little credit..

Youth

Earl Clark
Terrence Williams
Cole Aldrich
B.J. Mullens
Anthony Murrow
Dominique Jones
Austin Daye
Brandan Wright
Wesley Johnson
Chase Buddinger
DeJuan Blair
Greg Smith
Nolan Smith

Vets

Corey Brewer
Ton Allen
Andray Blatche
Marco Belli
Teen Wolf
Dorrell Wright
J.J. Redick
Nick Young
Jose Calderon
C.J. Watson
Demarre Carroll
Carlos Delfino
Shaun Livingston
Francisco Garcia
Matt Barnes
Ryan Hollins
Martell Webster

Agree on Beasley -- I'd be willing to take him on for JR Smith, a guy I don't want any part of anymore -- esp. at over $5M a pop & if we'd also have to sign his brother Chris -- no way in hell do I do that after the no-show JR pulled in the playoffs this year! He can walk -- there's a good 20 SGs out there we could replace him with and, provided we upgrade other areas as well, we'd be no worse for the ware. I'd argue we'd actually be in much better shape --- for example, flipping JR Smith for Beasley, then going out and replacing JR with Rice Jr./Allen Crabbe in the draft along with a good cheap FA signing like Jermaine Taylor, Jamelle Horne or Chris Douglas-Roberts ---> this is much better than what we have in place right now. Bye-bye to JR Smith --- this guy was never Scottie Pippen, will never be Scottie Pippen.

Disagree on signing more vet talent, though. Don't want anymore players in the twilights of their careers. Been there, done that and it wasn't the right mix. Those guys wear down/break down and aren't there when you need them the most. Not interested in Antwan Jamison at all. The fact that you're questioning whether or not he can still contribute says it all....Gimmie one of the younger bigs I recommended above instead (for a lot less money too btw). Appreciate what K-Mart did (agree totally, I wish he came sooner) but he can walk too. Dude was completely ineffective in the Indy series. And the onlookers who criticized the Knicks backup 4/starting 5 players not bringing any offense to the table are 100% correct. I want more youth and better overall ability for those 2 spots next year; not flawed, 1-dimensional players like Chandler & K-Mart. Looking to add 2 younger, better all-around frontcourt players here minimum. Woody needs more options to go to up front.

Agree on Chandler totally. I can't stand this dude. Practically as big a letdown as JR Smith this post season. Then, on top of it all, he's got the balls to openly criticize his teammates' play to the media right smack in the middle of a playoff series we were down in at the time (terrible leadership from a vet player--he should've known better that airing out dirty laundry like that is nothing but a detriment to the team) AND then give 100 excuses why he didn't play well...How 'bout you buck up and state the obvious pal -- YOU STUNK!!!! It's true -- this guy's one of the most overrated athletes I've ever seen in sports, going back a good 30+ years. Everything about the guy's game is flawed -- overrated defender by a mile and a half (I can't understand for the life of me how he continually gets recognition for his play on this end of the floor---it's adequate at best; below average on most nights), can't stand his lazy rebounding technique of swatting the ball out instead of going up and securing the ball, and he's got ZERO offensive game after being in the league 12 years--I doubt he rectifies that now. 10 & 11 on the season doesn't look bad at all on paper but it's deceiving as hell when you watch him play everyday. If I knew I could immediately replace him with Marcus Cousin AND Jordan Williams at a bare minimum (which wouldn't be terrible at all--I'd be excited as hell adding those 2 together to man the middle for next year---both those guys are completely serviceable, much younger and flat out better than Chandler), I'd entertain trading Chandler for the most value I could get my hands on--Chandler to the highest bidder, draft pick(s) preferred (and preferably in this draft -- we're gonna need to show Melo that he's got enough to win now and that there's solid youth in place and that the future's bright too---definitely don't want Melo opting out of his contract after next season if we can help it). Chandler for Gortat/Beasley's not terrible (see if we could squeeze them for their draft pick at 30 too), have to see if the salaries work on something like that. Don't want Shumpert included in that deal though---that's when I'd walk away from it. Shumpert stays. I wanna build this thing with Shumpert.

PG AJPrice/Calderon/NSmith/CJWatson
SG GNeal/Foye/DWest/Budinger
SF MWebster/Toliver/Barnes/do.wright/Morrow/Daye/WJohnson
PF DCunningham/IvJohnson/Blair/GSmith/Beasley
C Dalembert/Hollins/Turiaf

playa2 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Beasley is not a upgrade at all. You're gaining a couple of rebounds, losing assists, stls and 3 point shooting.

Off the court issues would increase for him in NYC are you kidding me ?
ACCUSED OF SEXUAL ASSAULT IN PHOENIX. Drving

If you couldn't make it in Miami with all the distractions , how will you do well in NY ?

What was JR Smith, some choir boy? This dude's been chock-full of distractions himself since he's been here. The twitter nonsense, Rhianna coming out and saying he was drunk and possibly coked up the nights before playoff games, etc.. Beasley's a risk, but for JR Smith, he's worth the risk imo.

dk7th wrote:the last thing the knicks need are more unprofessional employees or low-character employees. trouble is dolan is exactly like this: unprofessional and low-character. so he will attract these sorts of people inexorably. what compounds the issue is that dolan insists on having lackeys under him, lackeys like grunwald and woodson. it's got to be hard to do your job when you are in fear of dolan like grunwald is or in fear of carmelo anthony like woodson is. you can see the effect this has on the team.

if they are going to improve they will need to find people NOT like jr smith and NOT like michael beasley. grunwald is going to have to stand up to dolan when necessary (he did nothing about lin) and woodson is going to have to bench carmelo anthony when necessary, whether in response to bad shot selection and selfishness, or lousy defense, or general lack of conditioning. what kind of leader can you be if you cannot discipline all your players?

the culture of the franchise needs to become healthier. it's obviously not healthy right now and you don't want to alienate what quality people you happen to have, like shumpert and chandler.

Who are these players you suggest the Knicks get that will be "high character" professionals?

VCoug wrote:

callmened wrote:i understand the ethical reasons for not bringing in a troubled kid but i believe in coach woody turning him around. most importantly, we need TALENT. Id sign beasley in a heart beat but i understand fans like dk7th

This is what it comes down to. With our cap situation the way that it is and with very few tradeable assets we don't have much choice but to take chances on troubled talent in order to improve this team.

where is the infrastructure and personnel that will keep this guys in line and nurture them into responsible adults and professionals?

it's not only the cap situation it's the culture of the franchise. it is not healthy.

AnubisADL wrote:

dk7th wrote:the last thing the knicks need are more unprofessional employees or low-character employees. trouble is dolan is exactly like this: unprofessional and low-character. so he will attract these sorts of people inexorably. what compounds the issue is that dolan insists on having lackeys under him, lackeys like grunwald and woodson. it's got to be hard to do your job when you are in fear of dolan like grunwald is or in fear of carmelo anthony like woodson is. you can see the effect this has on the team.

if they are going to improve they will need to find people NOT like jr smith and NOT like michael beasley. grunwald is going to have to stand up to dolan when necessary (he did nothing about lin) and woodson is going to have to bench carmelo anthony when necessary, whether in response to bad shot selection and selfishness, or lousy defense, or general lack of conditioning. what kind of leader can you be if you cannot discipline all your players?

the culture of the franchise needs to become healthier. it's obviously not healthy right now and you don't want to alienate what quality people you happen to have, like shumpert and chandler.

Who are these players you suggest the Knicks get that will be "high character" professionals?

of the names i recognize i would look into acquiring blair. he played for popovich. austin daye has length and is young and he plays for lionel hollins.

tony allen same; he plays for hollins
marco bellinelli plays for thiboudeux
jj redick would be a good pickup for the knicks too.

AnubisADL wrote:

dk7th wrote:the last thing the knicks need are more unprofessional employees or low-character employees. trouble is dolan is exactly like this: unprofessional and low-character. so he will attract these sorts of people inexorably. what compounds the issue is that dolan insists on having lackeys under him, lackeys like grunwald and woodson. it's got to be hard to do your job when you are in fear of dolan like grunwald is or in fear of carmelo anthony like woodson is. you can see the effect this has on the team.

if they are going to improve they will need to find people NOT like jr smith and NOT like michael beasley. grunwald is going to have to stand up to dolan when necessary (he did nothing about lin) and woodson is going to have to bench carmelo anthony when necessary, whether in response to bad shot selection and selfishness, or lousy defense, or general lack of conditioning. what kind of leader can you be if you cannot discipline all your players?

the culture of the franchise needs to become healthier. it's obviously not healthy right now and you don't want to alienate what quality people you happen to have, like shumpert and chandler.

Who are these players you suggest the Knicks get that will be "high character" professionals?

DK is right if T-Will is brandishing guns at Baby Mommas and Beas is trying to Kobe women.... then those have to be last resort type options if reports are true. Can't pick and choose just because YOU like the player....

Also Novak and Camby won't get you Beasley with Ryan McDonough running things....neither will Chandler and Shumpert if you try and take Gortat

There are plenty of players to choose from some of which we may not have to make any trades for. I'd rather hold on to Shump for a while longer if it possibly means we can pair him with Amar'e for a trade.

dk7th wrote:

VCoug wrote:

callmened wrote:i understand the ethical reasons for not bringing in a troubled kid but i believe in coach woody turning him around. most importantly, we need TALENT. Id sign beasley in a heart beat but i understand fans like dk7th

This is what it comes down to. With our cap situation the way that it is and with very few tradeable assets we don't have much choice but to take chances on troubled talent in order to improve this team.

where is the infrastructure and personnel that will keep this guys in line and nurture them into responsible adults and professionals?

it's not only the cap situation it's the culture of the franchise. it is not healthy.

We're talking about improving the overall talent level of the team. We have no cap space and teams aren't going to hand over talented players for no reason. We're clearly not a contender and we're not blowing the team up under Dolan. That means having to take chances.