Ultimateknicks.com Forums: thought-provoking article by pennington is the NYT

CrushAlot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
holfresh wrote:What a joke...Really??..We have more thought provoking discussions at UK..What a clown of a writer..I could show you at least 4 threads I started about the reservations about signing Kidd, KT and Camby..I don't need to gloat about it, "if I was right or wrong"...Knicks lost end of story...And it's posted as if it's some sort of revaluation...Thanks for your contribution...

It's not just Kidd, KT, and Camby, though. That's just a distraction. Our big three have now completed thirty-two seasons. Only 1 of our 15 players is below the league average in age, actually. Age-wise, we have the most unbalanced roster in the league.
I disagree, the big problem is Amare when u get right down to it...A vet player can contribute, old/hurt players can't...

But a vet is more likely to be old/hurt. It's not either/or. I'm sure Melo and the rest of the players would have recovered more quickly from many of their injuries if they were 23.
Melo might recover from shoulder surgery quicker but he has a tear. I don't know that his age factors into the recovery from that injury. He also might have recovered quicker if he didn't have to cover David West.

He has a partial tear that probably will not require surgery.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/knicks/2013/05/22/carmelo-anthony-new-york-knicks-injury-wont-require-surgery/2353141/
When he was younger, he contributed more in other facets of the game also (rebounds, assists, etc.) and that would have been helpful this post-season too.
History will show you that vets play for the ring...Not inexperienced players...

Great; let's get some more 40 year olds!
Well Bonn, you are trying include Carmelo in the KT, Kidd and Camby discussion which is just silly...
No, you're the only one who singled out KT, Kidd, and Camby. I'm including everyone. See above. It's not the case that age is irrelevant until you reach the Kidd/Camby/KT age.
The author wrote about KT, Kidd, Camby, Sheed and Amare. This is about the I told you so article right?

You're right Crush.

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author

Markji
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5/25/2013 10:50 AM

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I could write an article using age with the opposite viewpoint. Look at the "old" Celtics - Garnett, Pierce, and previous years old Ray Allen. And who broke down this year; Rondo, their youngest star.

This year, we don't come in 2nd place in the East without Sheed; without KT; without Kidd; without KMart; without Prigioni, the oldest NBA rookie. All contributed to our success. And an "old" KMart intimidated Garnett, the Boston intimidator who always beats us. But not this time. And we made it out of the 1st round.

Many forget how hopeless our situation was at the end of last year. We had no cap room and no 1st round pick. And no chance to sign a supporting cast to fill out our team. Look what was accomplished this year. It was exciting. We won 54 games....we haven't won 54 games or more since 1996-97. Grunwald, IMO, did a great job. I'm satisfied.

The author puts the blame on the old players breaking down. But if JR, who is young, hits more shots, and the refs call more fouls on the Pacers, the results could have been different.

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author

dk7th
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5/25/2013 12:30 PM

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Markji wrote:I could write an article using age with the opposite viewpoint. Look at the "old" Celtics - Garnett, Pierce, and previous years old Ray Allen. And who broke down this year; Rondo, their youngest star.
This year, we don't come in 2nd place in the East without Sheed; without KT; without Kidd; without KMart; without Prigioni, the oldest NBA rookie. All contributed to our success. And an "old" KMart intimidated Garnett, the Boston intimidator who always beats us. But not this time. And we made it out of the 1st round.
Many forget how hopeless our situation was at the end of last year. We had no cap room and no 1st round pick. And no chance to sign a supporting cast to fill out our team. Look what was accomplished this year. It was exciting. We won 54 games....we haven't won 54 games or more since 1996-97. Grunwald, IMO, did a great job. I'm satisfied.
The author puts the blame on the old players breaking down. But if JR, who is young, hits more shots, and the refs call more fouls on the Pacers, the results could have been different.

it's about fielding a playoff-ready team not a team that is cobbled together.

we had no choice but to sign players that were TOO OLD, not merely veterans who are MATURE with playoff experience. the latter would have cost too much while former are a (poorly) calculated risk. this is all fallout from the owner interfering with the running of the team. whether its february 2011 or the summer of 2012 the team we saw fail in the playoffs is a manifestation stemming from these two dates.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%

CrushAlot
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5/25/2013 12:32 PM

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dk7th wrote:
Markji wrote:I could write an article using age with the opposite viewpoint. Look at the "old" Celtics - Garnett, Pierce, and previous years old Ray Allen. And who broke down this year; Rondo, their youngest star.
This year, we don't come in 2nd place in the East without Sheed; without KT; without Kidd; without KMart; without Prigioni, the oldest NBA rookie. All contributed to our success. And an "old" KMart intimidated Garnett, the Boston intimidator who always beats us. But not this time. And we made it out of the 1st round.
Many forget how hopeless our situation was at the end of last year. We had no cap room and no 1st round pick. And no chance to sign a supporting cast to fill out our team. Look what was accomplished this year. It was exciting. We won 54 games....we haven't won 54 games or more since 1996-97. Grunwald, IMO, did a great job. I'm satisfied.
The author puts the blame on the old players breaking down. But if JR, who is young, hits more shots, and the refs call more fouls on the Pacers, the results could have been different.
it's about fielding a playoff-ready team not a team that is cobbled together.
we had no choice but to sign players that were TOO OLD, not merely veterans who are MATURE with playoff experience. the latter would have cost too much while former are a (poorly) calculated risk. this is all fallout from the owner interfering with the running of the team. whether its february 2011 or the summer of 2012 the team we saw fail in the playoffs is a manifestation stemming from these two dates.

Walsh put the Knicks in a situation where Grunfeld is going to be cobbling together the roster for at least two more years.

I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18

Markji
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5/25/2013 12:46 PM LAST EDITED: 5/25/2013 12:47 PM

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dk7th wrote:
Markji wrote:I could write an article using age with the opposite viewpoint. Look at the "old" Celtics - Garnett, Pierce, and previous years old Ray Allen. And who broke down this year; Rondo, their youngest star.
This year, we don't come in 2nd place in the East without Sheed; without KT; without Kidd; without KMart; without Prigioni, the oldest NBA rookie. All contributed to our success. And an "old" KMart intimidated Garnett, the Boston intimidator who always beats us. But not this time. And we made it out of the 1st round.
Many forget how hopeless our situation was at the end of last year. We had no cap room and no 1st round pick. And no chance to sign a supporting cast to fill out our team. Look what was accomplished this year. It was exciting. We won 54 games....we haven't won 54 games or more since 1996-97. Grunwald, IMO, did a great job. I'm satisfied.
The author puts the blame on the old players breaking down. But if JR, who is young, hits more shots, and the refs call more fouls on the Pacers, the results could have been different.
it's about fielding a playoff-ready team not a team that is cobbled together.
we had no choice but to sign players that were TOO OLD, not merely veterans who are MATURE with playoff experience. the latter would have cost too much while former are a (poorly) calculated risk. this is all fallout from the owner interfering with the running of the team. whether its february 2011 or the summer of 2012 the team we saw fail in the playoffs is a manifestation stemming from these two dates.

Dolan interfers too much with the team. I agree. But the team we had this year was very good. Exciting. And if the younger players performed the outcome may have been different. Besides JR shooting very poorly, Chandler, also young, played terribly. But I think in Chandler's case, he was still hurting and was trying to play thru the pain. If Chandler and JR played like they did during the season, the outcome may have been very different.

But could of, would of, should of and they/we didn't. We were outplayed. Very simple. It happens. I was disappointed that we didn't go on to play the Heat. But I wouldn't place the blame on just the older players.

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author

holfresh
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5/25/2013 12:52 PM LAST EDITED: 5/25/2013 12:53 PM

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dk7th wrote:
Markji wrote:I could write an article using age with the opposite viewpoint. Look at the "old" Celtics - Garnett, Pierce, and previous years old Ray Allen. And who broke down this year; Rondo, their youngest star.
This year, we don't come in 2nd place in the East without Sheed; without KT; without Kidd; without KMart; without Prigioni, the oldest NBA rookie. All contributed to our success. And an "old" KMart intimidated Garnett, the Boston intimidator who always beats us. But not this time. And we made it out of the 1st round.
Many forget how hopeless our situation was at the end of last year. We had no cap room and no 1st round pick. And no chance to sign a supporting cast to fill out our team. Look what was accomplished this year. It was exciting. We won 54 games....we haven't won 54 games or more since 1996-97. Grunwald, IMO, did a great job. I'm satisfied.
The author puts the blame on the old players breaking down. But if JR, who is young, hits more shots, and the refs call more fouls on the Pacers, the results could have been different.
it's about fielding a playoff-ready team not a team that is cobbled together.
we had no choice but to sign players that were TOO OLD, not merely veterans who are MATURE with playoff experience. the latter would have cost too much while former are a (poorly) calculated risk. this is all fallout from the owner interfering with the running of the team. whether its february 2011 or the summer of 2012 the team we saw fail in the playoffs is a manifestation stemming from these two dates.

Of course we had a choice...We didnt have to sign Camby or Kidd...Blatche was out there..I'm sure we could find another PG like Aaron Brooks instead of Prigs or Kidd..

sidsanders
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5/25/2013 1:12 PM

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Markji wrote:
dk7th wrote:
Markji wrote:I could write an article using age with the opposite viewpoint. Look at the "old" Celtics - Garnett, Pierce, and previous years old Ray Allen. And who broke down this year; Rondo, their youngest star.
This year, we don't come in 2nd place in the East without Sheed; without KT; without Kidd; without KMart; without Prigioni, the oldest NBA rookie. All contributed to our success. And an "old" KMart intimidated Garnett, the Boston intimidator who always beats us. But not this time. And we made it out of the 1st round.
Many forget how hopeless our situation was at the end of last year. We had no cap room and no 1st round pick. And no chance to sign a supporting cast to fill out our team. Look what was accomplished this year. It was exciting. We won 54 games....we haven't won 54 games or more since 1996-97. Grunwald, IMO, did a great job. I'm satisfied.
The author puts the blame on the old players breaking down. But if JR, who is young, hits more shots, and the refs call more fouls on the Pacers, the results could have been different.
it's about fielding a playoff-ready team not a team that is cobbled together.
we had no choice but to sign players that were TOO OLD, not merely veterans who are MATURE with playoff experience. the latter would have cost too much while former are a (poorly) calculated risk. this is all fallout from the owner interfering with the running of the team. whether its february 2011 or the summer of 2012 the team we saw fail in the playoffs is a manifestation stemming from these two dates.

Dolan interfers too much with the team. I agree. But the team we had this year was very good. Exciting. And if the younger players performed the outcome may have been different. Besides JR shooting very poorly, Chandler, also young, played terribly. But I think in Chandler's case, he was still hurting and was trying to play thru the pain. If Chandler and JR played like they did during the season, the outcome may have been very different.
But could of, would of, should of and they/we didn't. We were outplayed. Very simple. It happens. I was disappointed that we didn't go on to play the Heat. But I wouldn't place the blame on just the older players.

chandler is not too old in age, however he has 12 seasons of usage on him. smith has 9. younger in age, old in mileage.

GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!

BasketballJones
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5/25/2013 3:52 PM

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The thought this article provokes is: Can I get those 2 minutes of my life back?

https:// It's not so hard.

dk7th
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5/25/2013 10:25 PM

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BasketballJones wrote:The thought this article provokes is: Can I get those 2 minutes of my life back?

so we can safely assume you were suckered along for the entire season oblivious to the warning signs?

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%

knicks1248
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5/25/2013 10:42 PM

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I think the knicks built this team to beat the heat, and clearly overlooked Indi, and the bulls..hard to say how good we would have been with a healthy amare, same goes for a healthy rose, granger, and rondo.

CrushAlot
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5/25/2013 10:49 PM

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dk7th wrote:
BasketballJones wrote:The thought this article provokes is: Can I get those 2 minutes of my life back?
so we can safely assume you were suckered along for the entire season oblivious to the warning signs?

No. It was a bad article that was mostly about the writer. I love reading about ball whether it is positive or negative. This wasn't 'thought provoking'. This was an I told you so piece and a narrative on a guys experiences.

I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18

TeamBall
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5/25/2013 10:53 PM

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dk7th wrote:
BasketballJones wrote:The thought this article provokes is: Can I get those 2 minutes of my life back?
so we can safely assume you were suckered along for the entire season oblivious to the warning signs?

Werent you one of those "suckers" after the Knicks beat the Thunder the last time they met in the regular season? You were saying things like the Knicks put the NBA on notice or something like that.

Knicksfan: Hypocrite league that fines players after the game for flopping but in the game and with obvious flopping they call the fouls.

dk7th
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5/25/2013 11:15 PM

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TeamBall wrote:
dk7th wrote:
BasketballJones wrote:The thought this article provokes is: Can I get those 2 minutes of my life back?
so we can safely assume you were suckered along for the entire season oblivious to the warning signs?

Werent you one of those "suckers" after the Knicks beat the Thunder the last time they met in the regular season? You were saying things like the Knicks put the NBA on notice or something like that.

you mean this...

dk7th wrote:
just a fantastic win for the knicks today. optimism is a brewin'!!!

i was euphoric after a huge win-- it was ONE GAME-- and said that optimism was a-brewing. i know where my mind was at, and i was trying to "smoke peace pipe," ie celebrate, with the blind faithers. in what way does this make me an all-season sucker like you and the other melo zombies? just a cheap move right there bro...

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%

TeamBall
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5/25/2013 11:25 PM

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dk7th wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
dk7th wrote:
BasketballJones wrote:The thought this article provokes is: Can I get those 2 minutes of my life back?
so we can safely assume you were suckered along for the entire season oblivious to the warning signs?

Werent you one of those "suckers" after the Knicks beat the Thunder the last time they met in the regular season? You were saying things like the Knicks put the NBA on notice or something like that.
you mean this...
dk7th wrote:
just a fantastic win for the knicks today. optimism is a brewin'!!!
i was euphoric after a huge win-- it was ONE GAME-- and said that optimism was a-brewing. i know where my mind was at, and i was trying to "smoke peace pipe," ie celebrate, with the blind faithers. in what way does this make me an all-season sucker like you and the other melo zombies? just a cheap move right there bro...

No i meant

dk7th wrote:just a terrific game for our guys. nba is now on notice. ****in' a!

I put "sucker" in quotes for a reason. None of us are suckers. We're fans. Once again, being a fan around here is far too often associated with liking Melo more than the team. Also, why did you refer to me as that in the first place? I didnt even mention Melo in my post.

Hows it a cheap move to reference a time when you actually enjoyed a Knicks game this season? Was it really that bad for you?

Knicksfan: Hypocrite league that fines players after the game for flopping but in the game and with obvious flopping they call the fouls.

BasketballJones
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5/25/2013 11:35 PM LAST EDITED: 5/25/2013 11:39 PM

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dk7th wrote:
BasketballJones wrote:The thought this article provokes is: Can I get those 2 minutes of my life back?
so we can safely assume you were suckered along for the entire season oblivious to the warning signs?

No, I think I watched maybe three quarters of Knicks basketball all season. But I did waste a couple minutes reading that article.

https:// It's not so hard.

CrushAlot
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5/25/2013 11:37 PM

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I also said I liked last season’s team better: the one with Jeremy Lin, the one with a future.

The guy put his agenda out there for his original article. Apparently not resigning lin to the 'poison pill' contract doomed the Knicks for him. Signing older vets was what he criticized but the Knicks went onto have their best season in 13 years and make their deepest playoff run in a decade and a half. After going up 3-0 against the celts did they disappoint? Absolutely but the Pacers are really good and the Knicks best player was really hurt and played despite that. The rest of the team for the most part sucked really bad. JR and Tyson were the reason the Knicks were losing not the loss of Thomas, Sheed or Amare. This article wasn't thought provoking. It was a juvenile, I told you so article with a little boy crush for Jeremy Lin mixed in. This isn't a tool to transition to Melo bashing or even team bashing.

I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18

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