tkf wrote:

knickscity wrote:

tkf wrote:

playa2 wrote:

Now it comes out from the opponent , what I have said all along the Knicks were the better team but were out coached.

From Indiana coach Frank Vogel:

"They had a more intelligent plan against Roy Hibbert than New York did and we've got to adjust to it," Vogel told reporters with the Pacers in Miami. "It was effective [Wednesday night] and we've got to adjust to it."

It's unclear if Vogel meant it as a direct criticism of Woodson, but it's hard to misinterpret his words: he was ripping the Knicks' offensive scheme against Hibbert.

The Knicks allowed Hibbert to camp out in the paint on defense in their second-round series. In doing so, Hibbert made life difficult for the Knicks at the rim. He had 19 blocks in six games and was able to help the Pacers control the boards (Indiana outrebounded New York by 10.4 rebounds per game).

Woodson at times drew Hibbert from the paint by placing shooters such as Chris Copeland on the floor, but he did not use that strategy often.
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How could we as fans see and know this but a GUY GETTING PAID MILLIONS NOT ?

Vogel wasn't the only observer to critique Woodson's coaching performance against the Pacers.

Woodson also took criticism for failing to play Copeland until the final two games of the series. Woodson also went with a bigger starting lineup in Game 4 of the series; the move backfired, as the Knicks lost by 11 and were crushed on the boards.

"I really haven't heard the criticism because I don't read it that much," Woodson said on Monday. "I'm my own biggest critic."
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HE NEEDS TO READ ULTIMATEKNICKS !

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/44988/frank-vogel-criticizes-woodson

SERIOUSLY... someone please take this dudes keyboard away... please!!

Playa the better team won..... STOP IT.....

martin, how can we continue to let someone create the same thread over and over again.. seriously.. this is spamming the board...

He has the same viewpoint, but the threads are NOT the same at all.

You of all people should never criticize another poster for injecting the same thoughts into multiple threads.

injecting and starting threads is a different story... had he made this thread to talk about what vogel said, that would be different, he used it again to push his agenda... thats all... Knicks lost because indy was better, and being out coached is part of the other team being better unless coaching doesn't count.... The game involves coaches and the players... I don't care if you inject your thoughts, but this thread wasn't really about what vogel said.. not for playa at least..now I read some of the responses and it seems for the most part posters steered away from playas agenda... thank god.

Most of the posters aren't talking about what vogel said either, but acknowledging woody could have done better.

But like i said, you're the last poster who should ever talk about puishing an agenda, you do it in every thread you post in...eventually.

playa2 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

holfresh wrote:Maybe Woodson should have Chandler work on his three point shooting so he gets proficient at it like Bosh, that way next time Knick play the Pacers, we can have Chandler camp out at the three point line like Bosh..Isn't that why Hibbert was on the bench at the end of the game, they were afraid Bosh would blow by him on the way to the hoop??

I came in here to say this. Before Hibbert was taken out, the Heat had torched him on a few plays earlier by pulling him away from the basket to guard Bosh. Your only as smart as the roster you have at your disposal....We didn't have the players to exploit the slow footed Hibbert and pull him away from the basket....

Chris Copeland played Center for the Knicks during the season , but Woody did not use that strategy against Hibbert.

Sometimes you make your opponent match up with you.

And what would Hibbert do to Copeland on the blocks???..And who will Novak defend??.No one is the answer...

holfresh wrote:

playa2 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

holfresh wrote:Maybe Woodson should have Chandler work on his three point shooting so he gets proficient at it like Bosh, that way next time Knick play the Pacers, we can have Chandler camp out at the three point line like Bosh..Isn't that why Hibbert was on the bench at the end of the game, they were afraid Bosh would blow by him on the way to the hoop??

I came in here to say this. Before Hibbert was taken out, the Heat had torched him on a few plays earlier by pulling him away from the basket to guard Bosh. Your only as smart as the roster you have at your disposal....We didn't have the players to exploit the slow footed Hibbert and pull him away from the basket....

Chris Copeland played Center for the Knicks during the season , but Woody did not use that strategy against Hibbert.

Sometimes you make your opponent match up with you.

And what would Hibbert do to Copeland on the blocks???..And who will Novak defend??.No one is the answer...

I guess it's the way you see it.

I would ask what would Hibbert do with Copeland knocking down 3's in his grill or blowing by him dunking the ball when he's forced to defend him outside the paint.

3 points are more than 2. Vogel basically said You could have took Hibbert out of the game defensively , but you didn't know how to exploit it.

playa2 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

playa2 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

holfresh wrote:Maybe Woodson should have Chandler work on his three point shooting so he gets proficient at it like Bosh, that way next time Knick play the Pacers, we can have Chandler camp out at the three point line like Bosh..Isn't that why Hibbert was on the bench at the end of the game, they were afraid Bosh would blow by him on the way to the hoop??

I came in here to say this. Before Hibbert was taken out, the Heat had torched him on a few plays earlier by pulling him away from the basket to guard Bosh. Your only as smart as the roster you have at your disposal....We didn't have the players to exploit the slow footed Hibbert and pull him away from the basket....

Chris Copeland played Center for the Knicks during the season , but Woody did not use that strategy against Hibbert.

Sometimes you make your opponent match up with you.

And what would Hibbert do to Copeland on the blocks???..And who will Novak defend??.No one is the answer...

I guess it's the way you see it.

I would ask what would Hibbert do with Copeland knocking down 3's in his grill or blowing by him dunking the ball when he's forced to defend him outside the paint.

3 points are more than 2. Vogel basically said You could have took Hibbert out of the game defensively , but you didn't know how to exploit it.

jrodmc wrote:Yes, Frank Vogel.

Couldn't cut it in Div 1 basketball.
Got a job splicing tapes.
Parlayed rinsing Pitino's jock strap into gaining entrance into the coach's old boy's club.
Has talked his way into the head coaching ranks.
Talks alot.

Yes, that Frank Vogel.

Mike Woodson. ex-NBA player. Has coached in quite of few more playoff games than Vogel has.

I'm sure Mike Woodson is worried about the brilliant insights of Juniata College's Big Mouth on Campus.

Maybe talking about Woody is better than trying to talk about "The Layup"?

Lol, really? How about this:

Frank Vogel career 111-74 regular season record and 15-14 playoff record.

Mike Woodson career 278-320 regular season record and 18-28 playoff record.

playa2 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

playa2 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

holfresh wrote:Maybe Woodson should have Chandler work on his three point shooting so he gets proficient at it like Bosh, that way next time Knick play the Pacers, we can have Chandler camp out at the three point line like Bosh..Isn't that why Hibbert was on the bench at the end of the game, they were afraid Bosh would blow by him on the way to the hoop??

I came in here to say this. Before Hibbert was taken out, the Heat had torched him on a few plays earlier by pulling him away from the basket to guard Bosh. Your only as smart as the roster you have at your disposal....We didn't have the players to exploit the slow footed Hibbert and pull him away from the basket....

Chris Copeland played Center for the Knicks during the season , but Woody did not use that strategy against Hibbert.

Sometimes you make your opponent match up with you.

And what would Hibbert do to Copeland on the blocks???..And who will Novak defend??.No one is the answer...

I guess it's the way you see it.

I would ask what would Hibbert do with Copeland knocking down 3's in his grill or blowing by him dunking the ball when he's forced to defend him outside the paint.

3 points are more than 2. Vogel basically said You could have took Hibbert out of the game defensively , but you didn't know how to exploit it.

After 10 years of misery Woodson took this miserable franchise to respectability, 73-34 regular season and what does the Knick fan do...Whine...Ungrateful...Last year under MDA, we were definitely not making the playoffs..Woodson took over and we made the playoffs ...Following year we won 54 games and made it to the second round..Some would say that's progress..Any thanks Woody???..No..Insults...

VCoug wrote:

knickscity wrote:

VCoug wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Yes, Frank Vogel.

Couldn't cut it in Div 1 basketball.
Got a job splicing tapes.
Parlayed rinsing Pitino's jock strap into gaining entrance into the coach's old boy's club.
Has talked his way into the head coaching ranks.
Talks alot.

Yes, that Frank Vogel.

Mike Woodson. ex-NBA player. Has coached in quite of few more playoff games than Vogel has.

I'm sure Mike Woodson is worried about the brilliant insights of Juniata College's Big Mouth on Campus.

Maybe talking about Woody is better than trying to talk about "The Layup"?

Lol, really? How about this:

Frank Vogel career 111-74 regular season record and 15-14 playoff record.

Mike Woodson career 278-320 regular season record and 18-28 playoff record.

Spo>Pop with this analogy.

Pop 128-79 playoffs .618%

Spo 42-23 playoffs .652%

Yeah, I know it's not perfect but I didn't feel like going anymore in depth than that.

Can't say that about the Knicks.

But i dont think a coach needs to coach effort.

holfresh wrote:

playa2 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

playa2 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

holfresh wrote:Maybe Woodson should have Chandler work on his three point shooting so he gets proficient at it like Bosh, that way next time Knick play the Pacers, we can have Chandler camp out at the three point line like Bosh..Isn't that why Hibbert was on the bench at the end of the game, they were afraid Bosh would blow by him on the way to the hoop??

I came in here to say this. Before Hibbert was taken out, the Heat had torched him on a few plays earlier by pulling him away from the basket to guard Bosh. Your only as smart as the roster you have at your disposal....We didn't have the players to exploit the slow footed Hibbert and pull him away from the basket....

Chris Copeland played Center for the Knicks during the season , but Woody did not use that strategy against Hibbert.

Sometimes you make your opponent match up with you.

And what would Hibbert do to Copeland on the blocks???..And who will Novak defend??.No one is the answer...

I guess it's the way you see it.

I would ask what would Hibbert do with Copeland knocking down 3's in his grill or blowing by him dunking the ball when he's forced to defend him outside the paint.

3 points are more than 2. Vogel basically said You could have took Hibbert out of the game defensively , but you didn't know how to exploit it.

After 10 years of misery Woodson took this miserable franchise to respectability, 73-34 regular season and what does the Knick fan do...Whine...Ungrateful...Last year under MDA, we were definitely not making the playoffs..Woodson took over and we made the playoffs ...Following year we won 54 games and made it to the second round..Some would say that's progress..Any thanks Woody???..No..Insults...

For me I dont compare teams of different eras, because the players are not the same and neither is the coaching staff or upper management.

This team had a well-known bar....ECF vs the Miami Heat.

The Heat are in the ECF, but they are not playing the new York Knicks.

tkf wrote:

knickscity wrote:

VCoug wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Yes, Frank Vogel.

Couldn't cut it in Div 1 basketball.
Got a job splicing tapes.
Parlayed rinsing Pitino's jock strap into gaining entrance into the coach's old boy's club.
Has talked his way into the head coaching ranks.
Talks alot.

Yes, that Frank Vogel.

Mike Woodson. ex-NBA player. Has coached in quite of few more playoff games than Vogel has.

I'm sure Mike Woodson is worried about the brilliant insights of Juniata College's Big Mouth on Campus.

Maybe talking about Woody is better than trying to talk about "The Layup"?

Lol, really? How about this:

Frank Vogel career 111-74 regular season record and 15-14 playoff record.

Mike Woodson career 278-320 regular season record and 18-28 playoff record.

Spo>Pop with this analogy.

Pop 128-79 playoffs .618%

Spo 42-23 playoffs .652%

nice try, but you also have to count the amount of rings pops have...

there is a huge disparity between vogel and woodson..

tkf wrote:

knickscity wrote:

holfresh wrote:

playa2 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

playa2 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

holfresh wrote:Maybe Woodson should have Chandler work on his three point shooting so he gets proficient at it like Bosh, that way next time Knick play the Pacers, we can have Chandler camp out at the three point line like Bosh..Isn't that why Hibbert was on the bench at the end of the game, they were afraid Bosh would blow by him on the way to the hoop??

I came in here to say this. Before Hibbert was taken out, the Heat had torched him on a few plays earlier by pulling him away from the basket to guard Bosh. Your only as smart as the roster you have at your disposal....We didn't have the players to exploit the slow footed Hibbert and pull him away from the basket....

Chris Copeland played Center for the Knicks during the season , but Woody did not use that strategy against Hibbert.

Sometimes you make your opponent match up with you.

And what would Hibbert do to Copeland on the blocks???..And who will Novak defend??.No one is the answer...

I guess it's the way you see it.

I would ask what would Hibbert do with Copeland knocking down 3's in his grill or blowing by him dunking the ball when he's forced to defend him outside the paint.

3 points are more than 2. Vogel basically said You could have took Hibbert out of the game defensively , but you didn't know how to exploit it.

After 10 years of misery Woodson took this miserable franchise to respectability, 73-34 regular season and what does the Knick fan do...Whine...Ungrateful...Last year under MDA, we were definitely not making the playoffs..Woodson took over and we made the playoffs ...Following year we won 54 games and made it to the second round..Some would say that's progress..Any thanks Woody???..No..Insults...

You're entitled to view this season as a success, nothing wrong with that.

For me I dont compare teams of different eras, because the players are not the same and neither is the coaching staff or upper management.

This team had a well-known bar....ECF vs the Miami Heat.

The Heat are in the ECF, but they are not playing the new York Knicks.

good point and had this been a young team, that was building towards the future, then maybe you could see this season as a success and a stepping stone.. but this was a win now team, that didn't win or come close, so...... it pretty much speaks for itself..

Doesn't matter if they are young or old to me, if you dont reach your set goal, you failed thus a failure.

Now if they had just set the goal to at least win a playoff series and everything else is bonus material, they yeah...success, but they didn't do that from the start.

I'm pretty sure a team such as Houston or Golden State would view their season as a success, because their goal wasn't as high, mainly due to the youth and inexperience.

But a team such as the Thunder would call their season a failure...higher goals.

jrodmc wrote:Yes, Frank Vogel.

Couldn't cut it in Div 1 basketball.
Got a job splicing tapes.
Parlayed rinsing Pitino's jock strap into gaining entrance into the coach's old boy's club.
Has talked his way into the head coaching ranks.
Talks alot.

Yes, that Frank Vogel.

Mike Woodson. ex-NBA player. Has coached in quite of few more playoff games than Vogel has.

I'm sure Mike Woodson is worried about the brilliant insights of Juniata College's Big Mouth on Campus.

Maybe talking about Woody is better than trying to talk about "The Layup"?

Woohoo, JRod is on a roll. Good post!