CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks have been very resourceful in acquiring guys. Getting Gallo and Cope was huge. Getting Fields and Jorts in the second round were great picks but I don't think you build a championship roster with 2nd rounders. Maybe you fill out your roster. I am pretty sure the Knicks have moved a lot of their 2nd round picks in trades already.

The Spurs might disagree. They drafted Manu with the last pick in the 2nd round/draft and Tony Parker was selected 28th, which very well could be considered a 2nd round pick. The Knicks just have to be smarter with the picks they make and develop an apparatus better suited toward developing those picks.

I think the euro stash of a second round pick is a great strategy. The Knicks set themselves up for that possibility last year but later traded their pick for Camby. The Knicks don't have Robinson and Duncan like the Spurs did when they drafted Manu. They are trying to win now and don't have enough to do it. I am sure that Grunwald saw last years pick as both a developmental player or part of a trade package. However, he didn't have the luxury of waiting for three years for that guy to develop and come to the nba if they he could improve his team in the present. The Spurs are a great model for longtime relevance and winning. The Knicks are just trying to become a winning team.

Crushalot--what did that strategy yield? Trading assets for 39 years old players is not sound strategy. The Golden State warriors drafted Draymond Green last year 45 and he did a LOT MORE than Camby did for his team--AND hes going to be part of that team for 10+ years. This is a VERY old team--if we leave the cubbard dry so to speak--this could morph into a LONG LONG downwards spiral again. Thats what we did in 2000--we didnt plan well and we just fell off the map. I'm sorry but 22mm per year 5 draft picks and what looks like a first round type Euro talent for Tyson Chandler Jason Kidd and Marcus Camby isn't the best way to spend it. The result is poor--I'm sorry.

Hindsight says you are probably right but getting a guy that put up 7 and 9 last year to backup Tyson must have seemed to be a more immediate need for grunwald. With all the trading of young guys and first round picks I am surprised that you are stuck on this move. I remember last year after the draft guys making lists of players the Knicks should have taken with that pick. The Knicks previous regimes fleeced the franchise of future assets. Grunwald had to be extremely creative in how and where he finds talent that fits with the Knicks compromised situation. He is in a win now business in a win now city.

crushalot--Professional doctors told the Knicks they were buying broken goods for over 100mm$ and that he would not have more than three--but we still did it. Every team wants to win now--what the Knicks do is deal with the devil year after year for the last 12 years. We finally won 54 games off this strategy but like someone else mentioned--this is NOT a sustainable model--heck it did not sustain the year. I'm sorry but 22mm for Chandler Camby and Kidd was not god business and now were sitting in a terrible position cap wise because of it. If 54 wins and a porous 2nd round playoff showing was your goal--we achieved it. My goal since we ve been posting here is to build a team that has a sustainable model to make it to the playoffs and compete for a legitimate title year after year. We are both old enough to remember that we had that once time in NY--sustainability for a decade.

Finestrg wrote:Just my 2 cents -

1st round pick
Erick Green PG/SG, VA Tech - Best case - Steph Curry/Worst case - Devin Harris (a player Green likes and probably tries to emulate). Something in between would be amazing. It would also be amazing if he were still there at 24 (something I have trouble seeing). If he is, he's gotta be our guy. Not a pure point but has developed enough skill to help out at the 1 and also at 2G (6'3" -- Steph Curry operates at SG at the same height). Extra value to us if JR bolts... Not some Aubrey Coleman-type that just puts up scoring numbers at low efficiency -- this kid's stats were extremely efficient right across the board.

2nd round picks
Brandon Davies PF, BYU - a long 6'9"+ 230 long, very good scorer in the post. Assortment of moves with good footwork both facing up and with his back to the basket. Footwork is solid enough although he has a tendency to take an extra step at times which he very rarely got called for in college (as in hop step, then 2 long strides to the goal--he did it a lot and I'm surprised he got away with it). He's gonna have to work that out -- that's a walk in the NBA and just doesn't look right on TV when I've seen him. He cleans that up he'll be a very efficient scorer on the interior at the next level. Doesn't go all out on every play like you'd like to see and not the greatest rebounder/shot-blocker (plays happen right in front of him where you're left scratching your head as to why he didn't engage) but it's the offensive prowess that makes him intriguing. Bottom line is I want to see us come up with some interior offense for next yr somewhere. It's gotta be a top priority. Can't possibly field a team next yr where STAT is the sole interior scorer. If Amar'e breaks down again next year, I want a backup interior scorer(s) we can go to at a moment's notice...We need that desperately for balance... I originally looked at Davies as a SL/training camp invite; now off the solid Portsmouth showing (Portsmouth MVP), I think he'll get drafted. Making a small trade to add a deep pick shouldn't be too difficult provided Dolan green lights $1-3M to use in a trade. If we could land Green at 24 and then grab this kid Davies in the 2nd round (or after the draft if he goes undrafted), that's one hell of a draft.

Glen Rice Jr. SG/SF, G-Tech/NBA D-league - very unusual case - dismissed from school for mischief (allowed a friend to drive his car drunk after leaving a club where another friend discharged a firearm?), went straight to the NBDL and excelled for the Rio Grande Vipers. Won the DL championship and he was a big reason why. Managed to somehow retain his eligibility for the 2013 draft. 6'6" 215 (bulked up about 10 lbs. since college), this kid can shoot and really get to the rim. Shutdown defensive potential. College teammates with Iman Shumpert so there could be an instant comfort level in NY with the Knicks. The more I think about this kid -- how he was able to bulk up/get stronger and turn a disaster (college dismissal) into and instant positive (DL playoff run and championship where he averaged 25 ppg over 6 playoff games), the more I like him for us.

Pierre Jackson PG, Baylor - Even at 5'10" or so, I'm a believer. Really became a big fan after Baylor beat Kansas on national tv. He was great that day, as was Cory Jefferson...I see a lot of Nate Robinson only with more passing ability and court vision. Has the ability to go get whatever shot he wants at anytime, even at 5'10"...Dude's really a fine passer too -- had some monster assist games to close out the season... Led his team to the NIT championship...Wish Baylor finished with a better overall record--I'm certain they would've done some real damage in the Tourney...If we can't come up with PG help elsewhere, I think this kid's real nice value with a 2nd round pick.

Reggie Bullock SG/SF, UNC - wouldn't surprise me if he went late 1st round. Real solid 3-pt shooter (43.6%) that can also put it on the deck and get to the basket. Pretty solid defensive potential out on the perimeter too.

Durand Scott PG/SG, Miami (Fl) - 6'4", ACC defensive POY (beat out teammate Shane Larkin by 2 votes) and he can score. Late bloomer that looked real confident and fluid scoring the ball this year. Nothing Earth-shattering but strength, shifty handle, foot speed, first step, and outside jumper all look above average. Solid handle and sound decision making should enable him to slide over and handle some PG duties at times...Could be a bigger, better version of Toney Douglas in the NBA.

Dwayne Davis SG, Southern Miss. - 6'5" 225, big/strong 2G that put up real efficient scoring numbers his senior year (16 ppg on 49% FGs, 41.3% on 3s, 78.7% FTs).

Potential cost-effective FA targets/SL invites

Bigs
7' C Marcus Cousin - still maintain he's the best 7 footer out there no one's ever heard of. Been saying it for a few years now. Plays hard and physical on the glass and his mid-range jumper is flat out deadly. 7', good enough athlete that can run the court, very good rebounder with an effective post up game and mid-range jumper all in one package. How this kid isn't on an NBA roster by now continues to baffle me.

6'10" PF JaJuan Johnson - very skilled inside/outside player. I thought he looked real good in Boston before they cut him loose.

6'10" PF/C Jordan Williams - very good rebounder with some nice scoring ability and soft touch in close. Thought he looked good with the Nets when they used him. Wonder why he didn't play anywhere this year. Has he kept himself in shape?

6'10" SF/PF Craig Brackins - effective inside/outside offensive player. I like this guy for the same reasons I like JaJuan Johnson & Brandon Davies -- an interior scoring presence. Poor man's (very poor) Kevin Durant?

Wings
6'5" Jermaine Taylor - real good scorer with NBA experience. Late to join the DL this year but when he got there, he ripped it up. As good a talent as Marcus Thornton?

6'7" Jamelle Horne - very good role player for Arizona going back a couple of years

6'7" Scotty Hopson

6'7" Chris Douglas-Roberts

6'4" Austin Freeman

6'7" Derrick Byars

6'5" Dominique Jones - waived by Dallas this past March. Very surprised Cuban gave up on him. He can score and is a very good passer.

6'6" Chris Johnson - not the big from LSU -- the 6'6" lefty wing from Dayton that had a cup of coffee with Memphis this year

6'5" Othyus Jeffers - loved him before he got hurt, fighting his way back now

6'6" DJ Kennedy

6'4" Travis Leslie

6'6" Lazar Hayward

6'6" Sylven Landesberg - if we can get him out of his Israeli contract

6'8" Gary Flowers - I saw a ton of him this year in the DL. Started off like gangbusters then play slipped later in the season. Still, he has the ability to impact a lot of areas -- scoring, 3-pt shooting, rebounding, blocks, steals.

6'4" Lester Hudson

PGs
6'1" Michael Loyd Jr. - I'd like to see us come up with more speed/penetration/youth at the point next year to go along with Ray Felton. Ideally when Felton sits, I'd want to maintain optimum speed/scoring ability at the point at all times. I don't want us to give the opposition a break next year. I want a relenting/attacking PG on the floor for all 48 mins. If we can't find anything else, find out where this kid is and invite him to summer league for a closer look.

6'1" Curtis Jerrells - Ditto Loyd Jr.

I don't want to hear how they couldn't find anybody to fill in with. There are good/cheap options out there.

BRIGGS wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks have been very resourceful in acquiring guys. Getting Gallo and Cope was huge. Getting Fields and Jorts in the second round were great picks but I don't think you build a championship roster with 2nd rounders. Maybe you fill out your roster. I am pretty sure the Knicks have moved a lot of their 2nd round picks in trades already.

The Spurs might disagree. They drafted Manu with the last pick in the 2nd round/draft and Tony Parker was selected 28th, which very well could be considered a 2nd round pick. The Knicks just have to be smarter with the picks they make and develop an apparatus better suited toward developing those picks.

I think the euro stash of a second round pick is a great strategy. The Knicks set themselves up for that possibility last year but later traded their pick for Camby. The Knicks don't have Robinson and Duncan like the Spurs did when they drafted Manu. They are trying to win now and don't have enough to do it. I am sure that Grunwald saw last years pick as both a developmental player or part of a trade package. However, he didn't have the luxury of waiting for three years for that guy to develop and come to the nba if they he could improve his team in the present. The Spurs are a great model for longtime relevance and winning. The Knicks are just trying to become a winning team.

Crushalot--what did that strategy yield? Trading assets for 39 years old players is not sound strategy. The Golden State warriors drafted Draymond Green last year 45 and he did a LOT MORE than Camby did for his team--AND hes going to be part of that team for 10+ years. This is a VERY old team--if we leave the cubbard dry so to speak--this could morph into a LONG LONG downwards spiral again. Thats what we did in 2000--we didnt plan well and we just fell off the map. I'm sorry but 22mm per year 5 draft picks and what looks like a first round type Euro talent for Tyson Chandler Jason Kidd and Marcus Camby isn't the best way to spend it. The result is poor--I'm sorry.

Hindsight says you are probably right but getting a guy that put up 7 and 9 last year to backup Tyson must have seemed to be a more immediate need for grunwald. With all the trading of young guys and first round picks I am surprised that you are stuck on this move. I remember last year after the draft guys making lists of players the Knicks should have taken with that pick. The Knicks previous regimes fleeced the franchise of future assets. Grunwald had to be extremely creative in how and where he finds talent that fits with the Knicks compromised situation. He is in a win now business in a win now city.

crushalot--Professional doctors told the Knicks they were buying broken goods for over 100mm$ and that he would not have more than three--but we still did it. Every team wants to win now--what the Knicks do is deal with the devil year after year for the last 12 years. We finally won 54 games off this strategy but like someone else mentioned--this is NOT a sustainable model--heck it did not sustain the year. I'm sorry but 22mm for Chandler Camby and Kidd was not god business and now were sitting in a terrible position cap wise because of it. If 54 wins and a porous 2nd round playoff showing was your goal--we achieved it. My goal since we ve been posting here is to build a team that has a sustainable model to make it to the playoffs and compete for a legitimate title year after year. We are both old enough to remember that we had that once time in NY--sustainability for a decade.

VCoug wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks have been very resourceful in acquiring guys. Getting Gallo and Cope was huge. Getting Fields and Jorts in the second round were great picks but I don't think you build a championship roster with 2nd rounders. Maybe you fill out your roster. I am pretty sure the Knicks have moved a lot of their 2nd round picks in trades already.

The Spurs might disagree. They drafted Manu with the last pick in the 2nd round/draft and Tony Parker was selected 28th, which very well could be considered a 2nd round pick. The Knicks just have to be smarter with the picks they make and develop an apparatus better suited toward developing those picks.

I think the euro stash of a second round pick is a great strategy. The Knicks set themselves up for that possibility last year but later traded their pick for Camby. The Knicks don't have Robinson and Duncan like the Spurs did when they drafted Manu. They are trying to win now and don't have enough to do it. I am sure that Grunwald saw last years pick as both a developmental player or part of a trade package. However, he didn't have the luxury of waiting for three years for that guy to develop and come to the nba if they he could improve his team in the present. The Spurs are a great model for longtime relevance and winning. The Knicks are just trying to become a winning team.

Crushalot--what did that strategy yield? Trading assets for 39 years old players is not sound strategy. The Golden State warriors drafted Draymond Green last year 45 and he did a LOT MORE than Camby did for his team--AND hes going to be part of that team for 10+ years. This is a VERY old team--if we leave the cubbard dry so to speak--this could morph into a LONG LONG downwards spiral again. Thats what we did in 2000--we didnt plan well and we just fell off the map. I'm sorry but 22mm per year 5 draft picks and what looks like a first round type Euro talent for Tyson Chandler Jason Kidd and Marcus Camby isn't the best way to spend it. The result is poor--I'm sorry.

Hindsight says you are probably right but getting a guy that put up 7 and 9 last year to backup Tyson must have seemed to be a more immediate need for grunwald. With all the trading of young guys and first round picks I am surprised that you are stuck on this move. I remember last year after the draft guys making lists of players the Knicks should have taken with that pick. The Knicks previous regimes fleeced the franchise of future assets. Grunwald had to be extremely creative in how and where he finds talent that fits with the Knicks compromised situation. He is in a win now business in a win now city.

I'm tired of hearing that we're a "win-now city". We haven't won in 40 years; we haven't come close to winning in 19 years; we haven't even had a chance to win in 14 years. And we're all still here. We suffered through a decade of some of the most embarrassing **** any fanbase has ever had to deal with. And when Walsh got here can started clearing house what happened? The Garden faithful would cheer and chant everytime Lebron, or Melo, or Chris Paul played here. Melo's 2nd ever home game as a Knick was against the Hornets. I had tickets to that game and throughout warmups and for parts of the first half the crowd was chanting for Chris Paul.

CrushAlot wrote:

VCoug wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks have been very resourceful in acquiring guys. Getting Gallo and Cope was huge. Getting Fields and Jorts in the second round were great picks but I don't think you build a championship roster with 2nd rounders. Maybe you fill out your roster. I am pretty sure the Knicks have moved a lot of their 2nd round picks in trades already.

The Spurs might disagree. They drafted Manu with the last pick in the 2nd round/draft and Tony Parker was selected 28th, which very well could be considered a 2nd round pick. The Knicks just have to be smarter with the picks they make and develop an apparatus better suited toward developing those picks.

I think the euro stash of a second round pick is a great strategy. The Knicks set themselves up for that possibility last year but later traded their pick for Camby. The Knicks don't have Robinson and Duncan like the Spurs did when they drafted Manu. They are trying to win now and don't have enough to do it. I am sure that Grunwald saw last years pick as both a developmental player or part of a trade package. However, he didn't have the luxury of waiting for three years for that guy to develop and come to the nba if they he could improve his team in the present. The Spurs are a great model for longtime relevance and winning. The Knicks are just trying to become a winning team.

Crushalot--what did that strategy yield? Trading assets for 39 years old players is not sound strategy. The Golden State warriors drafted Draymond Green last year 45 and he did a LOT MORE than Camby did for his team--AND hes going to be part of that team for 10+ years. This is a VERY old team--if we leave the cubbard dry so to speak--this could morph into a LONG LONG downwards spiral again. Thats what we did in 2000--we didnt plan well and we just fell off the map. I'm sorry but 22mm per year 5 draft picks and what looks like a first round type Euro talent for Tyson Chandler Jason Kidd and Marcus Camby isn't the best way to spend it. The result is poor--I'm sorry.

Hindsight says you are probably right but getting a guy that put up 7 and 9 last year to backup Tyson must have seemed to be a more immediate need for grunwald. With all the trading of young guys and first round picks I am surprised that you are stuck on this move. I remember last year after the draft guys making lists of players the Knicks should have taken with that pick. The Knicks previous regimes fleeced the franchise of future assets. Grunwald had to be extremely creative in how and where he finds talent that fits with the Knicks compromised situation. He is in a win now business in a win now city.

I'm tired of hearing that we're a "win-now city". We haven't won in 40 years; we haven't come close to winning in 19 years; we haven't even had a chance to win in 14 years. And we're all still here. We suffered through a decade of some of the most embarrassing **** any fanbase has ever had to deal with. And when Walsh got here can started clearing house what happened? The Garden faithful would cheer and chant everytime Lebron, or Melo, or Chris Paul played here. Melo's 2nd ever home game as a Knick was against the Hornets. I had tickets to that game and throughout warmups and for parts of the first half the crowd was chanting for Chris Paul.

So we should build with second round picks and the gm shouldn't include them in a trade if he thinks he can make the team better by getting an accomplished player? I just don't see that as a productive strategy. I love the draft and am always excited about the prospects the knicks get. But for every Fields there are about 10 Rautins.

The guys I mentione dof our 2nd rounders---Richard Howell(6-9 258) or Trevor Mbakwe(6-8 245) both represent a 4 man that we simply do not have and both have the skills to play NBA basketball. I prefer Howell--he reminds me a lot of Kurt Thomas. Would you like a 22 year old 6-9 260 Kurt Thomas on the team on your bench. Mbakwe wouldve been a 1st round pick if he didnt tear his ACL. Ricky Ledo represents opportunity to get lottery type talent at a bargain--we dont need pick 9 and 3mm $ we need pick 44(that cost 1mm or so) and annual salariues of less than 1mm. If they cant own up--its not a big nba investment--but I am SURE that at a minimum we can use Howell or secondly Mbwake because we simply dont have one of those types right now on the roster--we have no Oakley 4's

Finestrg wrote:NBA combine coming on now at 10:00, ESPN-U for anyone interested. Good chance to get a glimpse at some of the players being discussed for the draft.

Any standouts you've noticed?

NardDogNation wrote:

Finestrg wrote:NBA combine coming on now at 10:00, ESPN-U for anyone interested. Good chance to get a glimpse at some of the players being discussed for the draft.

Any standouts you've noticed?

Ive watched admittedly but the guy who stood out to me was Steven Adams. They gave a good shout out to Richard Howell saying he was an Oakley type player. You really cannot tell much from this show.

NardDogNation wrote:

Finestrg wrote:NBA combine coming on now at 10:00, ESPN-U for anyone interested. Good chance to get a glimpse at some of the players being discussed for the draft.

Any standouts you've noticed?

Had to go pick my son up at school--stopped watching awhile ago. I caught most of the early SF drills -- Tony Snell looked pretty fluid....Difficult to really gauge this event on TV -- the drill portion is a real small sample to begin with, then they keep cutting away to the panel of commentators and panning the camera all over the place to all different players. I've seen Snell during the year though and he looks plenty athletic and is a real nice outside shooter. Was getting hyped by the panel and rightfully so. They mentioned Kawhi Leonard as a comparison -- there's a physical resemblance for sure (I was thinking Darius Miles myself) but I don't know him well enough to know for sure if he's the same type of hustler/defender Leonard is... 6'7" 225 lefty DeShaun Thomas looked good in the shooting portion of the drills... Arizona's Solomon Hill didn't shoot it that great from what little I saw but I still like that kid. There were times during the year when he looked like Michael Finley to me--that same combination of strength/put it on the floor/outside shooting in a similar bulldog-type 6'7" 220 body...And I continue to be intrigued by Glen Rice Jr. Going to be interesting to see where that kid winds up going. Chad Ford has him going in the lottery (#15 to the Bucks I believe---and Ford was raving about him today, putting a ton of stock in his DL play, esp. late in the season/DL playoffs); DX has him going 24 to us and nbadraft.net has him going middle of the 2nd round. Speculation varies greatly on this kid right now. I don't think there's any question that he's got talent, it just a matter of how much his checkered past comes into play for some.

Finestrg wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Finestrg wrote:NBA combine coming on now at 10:00, ESPN-U for anyone interested. Good chance to get a glimpse at some of the players being discussed for the draft.

Any standouts you've noticed?

Had to go pick my son up at school--stopped watching awhile ago. I caught most of the early SF drills -- Tony Snell looked pretty fluid....Difficult to really gauge this event on TV -- the drill portion is a real small sample to begin with, then they keep cutting away to the panel of commentators and panning the camera all over the place to all different players. I've seen Snell during the year though and he looks plenty athletic and is a real nice outside shooter. Was getting hyped by the panel and rightfully so. They mentioned Kawhi Leonard as a comparison -- there's a physical resemblance for sure (I was thinking Darius Miles myself) but I don't know him well enough to know for sure if he's the same type of hustler/defender Leonard is... 6'7" 225 lefty DeShaun Thomas looked good in the shooting portion of the drills... Arizona's Solomon Hill didn't shoot it that great from what little I saw but I still like that kid. There were times during the year when he looked like Michael Finley to me--that same combination of strength/put it on the floor/outside shooting in a similar bulldog-type 6'7" 220 body...And I continue to be intrigued by Glen Rice Jr. Going to be interesting to see where that kid winds up going. Chad Ford has him going in the lottery (#15 to the Bucks I believe---and Ford was raving about him today, putting a ton of stock in his DL play, esp. late in the season/DL playoffs); DX has him going 24 to us and nbadraft.net has him going middle of the 2nd round. Speculation varies greatly on this kid right now. I don't think there's any question that he's got talent, it just a matter of how much his checkered past comes into play for some.

Glenn Rice JR wouldn't be a bad move at 24 or in the second if they can get a pick. Get Iman to check off on it. lol.

I am more interest in the measurements of the players than any of the drills. Measurements and tape. I guess seeing their form is another thing.

Any talk about Erik Murphy?

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/shane-larkin

I hoep we don't draft another SG because I truly believe JR is coming back and we also have Shump to play the 2/3. Knowing this and that Melo plays the 3/4, I think the focus should be on big man depth or PG and Larkin, though small, may be a nice pick.

I checked out the Wolters post, which was interesting, but he seems too slow for the NBA and has a really low release that would get put in 3rd row if anyone were up on him.

BRIGGS wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Finestrg wrote:NBA combine coming on now at 10:00, ESPN-U for anyone interested. Good chance to get a glimpse at some of the players being discussed for the draft.

Any standouts you've noticed?

Ive watched admittedly but the guy who stood out to me was Steven Adams. They gave a good shout out to Richard Howell saying he was an Oakley type player. You really cannot tell much from this show.

Fair. I don't pay too much attention to college basketball so there isn't much I could contribute on the combine. Any idea of how I should acclimate myself to the players?

Slash, there are reports that this is a weak draft but does that include guys on the backend as well? It seems like the worth of the draft is usually determined by the top picks but even in allegedly "weak" drafts, there are pretty good rotation players available later on like in the 2011 draft which had Isiah Thomas, Jimmy Butler, Jordan Hamilton, Norris Cole, Corey Joseph, Kenneth Faried, Tobias Harris, Reggie Jackson, Marshon Brooks and Chandler Parsons. Personally, I think there are a few more guys in that draft that would flourish if put in the right situation like Jajuan Johnson, Malcolm Lee, Trey Thompkins and Kyle Singler as well as international prospects currently overseas like Adam Hanga.