NYKBocker wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Nalod wrote:Pacers are non starphuching and have good value. Might not ever get over the hump but things are not looking that up for us at the moment either.

They are not pretty and would not draw celebs to MSG but they have a young team.

Differnet ways for differnt markets.

Lets hope a legendary resurection and a defining moment by our Golden Mooby!

He was trying to do that here but Dolan got in the way.

I assume "starphuching" is being overly concerned with "superstar" players. With that said, Walsh was doing that. His whole plan from the time he got here was to go after Lebron, Wade, or any other big name...starphuchs but we struck out. He was also himself engaging in the Melo trades. The only thing Dolan did was force him to give up more than he wanted but Walsh still wanted the "star".

He positioned himself to sign a max FA. He did not want to send the whole team to get 1 starphuch. He was able to purge the mistake that Popcorn man did. Yes, Dolan got in the way.

NYKBocker wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Nalod wrote:Pacers are non starphuching and have good value. Might not ever get over the hump but things are not looking that up for us at the moment either.

They are not pretty and would not draw celebs to MSG but they have a young team.

Differnet ways for differnt markets.

Lets hope a legendary resurection and a defining moment by our Golden Mooby!

He was trying to do that here but Dolan got in the way.

I assume "starphuching" is being overly concerned with "superstar" players. With that said, Walsh was doing that. His whole plan from the time he got here was to go after Lebron, Wade, or any other big name...starphuchs but we struck out. He was also himself engaging in the Melo trades. The only thing Dolan did was force him to give up more than he wanted but Walsh still wanted the "star".

He positioned himself to sign a max FA. He did not want to send the whole team to get 1 starphuch. He was able to purge the mistake that Popcorn man did. Yes, Dolan got in the way.

But Walsh actually did gut teams to starphuch between 2008-2010. How else do you explain trading away two future all-stars in the eve of their prime (Zach Randolph, David Lee), a 6th man of the year player (Jamal Crawford) and a guy who seems capable of challenging for 6th man of the year in the near future (Nate Robinson) for just a chance to sign two stars in 2010? Walsh's time here was almost as bad as Isiah's; we just lucked into Melo wanting to become a Knick and some cap space to play with.

How else do you explain trading away valuable assets (9th pick of the 2009 draft and multiple draft picks) for a guy (Tracy McGrady) that was little more than a name at that point in his career?

he cleared the isiah disaster zone,

when it came time to drop the big money, look, lebron was going to miami no matter what, and after lebron ditched, then walsh's decisions were strongly influenced by dolan; his hands were pretty much tied after lebron decided not to come.

3G4G wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Nalod wrote:Pacers are non starphuching and have good value. Might not ever get over the hump but things are not looking that up for us at the moment either.

They are not pretty and would not draw celebs to MSG but they have a young team.

Differnet ways for differnt markets.

Lets hope a legendary resurection and a defining moment by our Golden Mooby!

i don't know about that. once we got duped by lebron and were "stuck" with stat as the main guy on the knicks we could have continued to build the right way, starting with upgrading at pont guard since felton was on a short and cheap contract. who knows who else we may have been able to draft or acquire? at least we'd have genuine hope to go with youth.

right now the pacers team is in a better position to upset the heat than the knicks. really good team!

kudos to walsh. dolan didn't deserve a guy like walsh anyway.

Walsh is a better gm when moves don't need to be made. Guys brought in on his watch since the draft last year, Plumlee, Young, Mahini and Augustin. Walsh had a pretty flawed plan in NY and came away with Amare after letting young guys leave and trading draft picks. A lot of teams were romanced by the potential of getting LBJ but the Knicks may have come out the worst. I keep asking myself what if Walsh just hired MJax.

Walsh....

hiring D'Antoni

signing Amar'e

drafting Gallo

drafting Hill

using additional 2009 first on Toney Douglas

trading with Morey

Waiting too late to trade David Lee

Were huge blunders. Now you could say the Gallo pick was okay.....but not when assessing what our roster needed at the time it wasn't a good pick. All the other moves led to really bad situations in which we never maximized any of them.

The best thing I think Walsh does is oversee decisions that are being made not actually making them and sticking up for his people in a professional manner. Somewhat of a double talker and sour graper. Hiring Pritchard was a good move by him though for the Pacers, the rest of what you see in Indy is all Bird.

NardDogNation wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:walsh performed a miracle for us,

he cleared the isiah disaster zone,

when it came time to drop the big money, look, lebron was going to miami no matter what, and after lebron ditched, then walsh's decisions were strongly influenced by dolan; his hands were pretty much tied after lebron decided not to come.

How can it be that everything Walsh did "right" was of his own merit but everything that he did wrong, Dolan's fault? Why would Dolan even opt to make him one of the highest paid league executives, if he could've gotten any hack to be his puppet at a fraction of the cost?

I personally don't believe that Walsh needed much help to be a mediocre/subpar GM. At his age and with failing health, basketball was probably one of the furthest things from his mind. To make matters worse, Walsh had been living off little more than his reputation from the time that he got here. People tend to forget that when he came to New York, Indiana was a lottery team that had been stuck in limbo for a while under his leadership. He just lucked into the job because Dolan felt threatened by Jerry Colangelo but needed someone with similar clout that would not make waves: see Donnie Walsh.

P.S., I doubt LeBron to MIA was a given; they just managed to put together the most compelling supporting cast offered by the 5 other teams with cap space. Playing with Wilson Chandler and Danilo Gallinari doesn't have the same allure as playing with Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh. Had Walsh actually drafted well and cleared the cap space he was suppose to, history might've been different.

I'm with you on paragraph 1

I am not with you on paragraph 2 - David Stern essentially mandated that Dolan hire someone competent. Stern strongly recommended Walsh. He wasn't the best GM but he certainly undid a lot of bad in a short time

Jennings sucks and would have melted under the pressure. Curry has had bad ankle problems and we would not have been patient. BroPez needed 2-3 years to develop. HIll was a "Play now" kind of pick like Isiah did with Frye. We don't develope players!!!! Curry would have been traded to Denver. His value two years ago was less. Curry is only now a "Star"!

Lets be real also, A GM does not dictate the direction of the team. Thats the owner. THe president of basketball operations does not either. Walsh does not set the directive, thats the owner.

Donnie was the president and Dolan would not even let him hire Mullin as his GM. Grunny was the "assistant" and was the defacto GM in the era. Donnie IM sure had final say, but only to the directive set by Dolan.

Kevin pritchard is the GM in Indy and Donnie is sittng in for Bird who might come back. He is the president this year, and by all looks of things he is the president of basketball operations for a team whos best player is out (granger) and advancing to the ECF's!

MDA was a starphuch hire and Donnie had MJax lined up. I'd say under the circumstances I don't know how much better he would have done. Its easy to sit here and think all kinds of good things because GSW is still playing. Jax as rookie coach with the rosters and changes we have had I really can't say was a good combo. MDA was the wrong coach for the players on the roster. Its a long line of starphuch coach's since Van Gundy took the 99' team to the finals. MDA could not get it done with Melo. In a players league and a contract expiring, MDA was right to go.

"In the end, Walsh wins!"

Im assuming of course we dont' make a miricle happen. So why does he win?

The dude left either by insult or by conflict. He is employed by an organization that he was long associated with who maintained a similar approach for many years and they are putting a hurt on us this year.

Walsh is not sitting with Dolan, he sits with the Pacers. Thus in the end, he wins!

Nalod wrote:
Donnie was bought in to clean up the stench. For that he had to make sacrifices.

Must be hard trying to find a team willing to take a chance on a 25 year old 20-10 big man that would inevitability become a 3-time allstar; a 27 year old 20-10 big man that would inevitability become a 2-time allstar; a 27 year old that would later become a 6th man of the year candidate, and a perenially runner-up, etc.

Nalod wrote:Jennings sucks and would have melted under the pressure. Curry has had bad ankle problems and we would not have been patient. BroPez needed 2-3 years to develop. HIll was a "Play now" kind of pick like Isiah did with Frye. We don't develope players!!!! Curry would have been traded to Denver. His value two years ago was less. Curry is only now a "Star"!

Nalod wrote:Lets be real also, A GM does not dictate the direction of the team. Thats the owner. THe president of basketball operations does not either. Walsh does not set the directive, thats the owner.

Donnie was the president and Dolan would not even let him hire Mullin as his GM. Grunny was the "assistant" and was the defacto GM in the era. Donnie IM sure had final say, but only to the directive set by Dolan.

Right, so everything that Donnie did "well" was of his own virtue but everything he did wrong was a byproduct of "the directive set by Dolan". Do you write for Fox News?

Nalod wrote:Kevin pritchard is the GM in Indy and Donnie is sittng in for Bird who might come back. He is the president this year, and by all looks of things he is the president of basketball operations for a team whos best player is out (granger) and advancing to the ECF's!

None of the key players of this Pacer team was selected or signed by Walsh. He is reaping the rewards that had been cultivated by Larry Bird and Kevin Pritchard.

Nalod wrote: MDA was a starphuch hire and Donnie had MJax lined up. I'd say under the circumstances I don't know how much better he would have done. Its easy to sit here and think all kinds of good things because GSW is still playing. Jax as rookie coach with the rosters and changes we have had I really can't say was a good combo. MDA was the wrong coach for the players on the roster. Its a long line of starphuch coach's since Van Gundy took the 99' team to the finals. MDA could not get it done with Melo. In a players league and a contract expiring, MDA was right to go.

Walsh has gone on record on multiple occasions stating that HE elected NOT to hire Jackson because of his interest in Jackson's wellbeing and concern for how tumultuous a situation he'd be walking into. I agree with you that not many coaches would've fared well under those conditions but lets not pretend that those teams did not have talent. D'Antoni is just a one-dimensional coach and that shows with him coaching the Lakers.

Nalod wrote:"In the end, Walsh wins!"

Im assuming of course we dont' make a miricle happen. So why does he win?

The dude left either by insult or by conflict. He is employed by an organization that he was long associated with who maintained a similar approach for many years and they are putting a hurt on us this year.

Walsh is not sitting with Dolan, he sits with the Pacers. Thus in the end, he wins!

ooooookay!

JamesKPolk wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:
Must be hard trying to find a team willing to take a chance on a 25 year old 20-10 big man that would inevitability become a 3-time allstar; a 27 year old 20-10 big man that would inevitability become a 2-time allstar; a 27 year old that would later become a 6th man of the year candidate, and a perenially runner-up, etc.

You're right. Because that's exactly what they were when he traded them. Not selfish, one-dimensional, dumb players, but All-Stars. I forgot how great the Isiah teams were.

Take a hike, buddy. Walsh was the best thing to happen to this franchise in over a decade.

They didn't have the individual accolades yet, but had been putting up the numbers to eventually be recognized as such. Anyway you want to cut it, it doesn't change the fact that he grossly mismanaged assets and had a subpar tenure with us.

NardDogNation wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:
Must be hard trying to find a team willing to take a chance on a 25 year old 20-10 big man that would inevitability become a 3-time allstar; a 27 year old 20-10 big man that would inevitability become a 2-time allstar; a 27 year old that would later become a 6th man of the year candidate, and a perenially runner-up, etc.

You're right. Because that's exactly what they were when he traded them. Not selfish, one-dimensional, dumb players, but All-Stars. I forgot how great the Isiah teams were.

Take a hike, buddy. Walsh was the best thing to happen to this franchise in over a decade.

They didn't have the individual accolades yet, but had been putting up the numbers to eventually be recognized as such. Anyway you want to cut it, it doesn't change the fact that he grossly mismanaged assets and had a subpar tenure with us.

Wrong and wrong.

NardDogNation wrote:David Stern can mandate a lot of things in this league but never who to hire/fire as an independently run franchise. I do recall reports of Stern encouraging Dolan to make a replacement though ( http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/30410-stern-pushing-colangelo-on-knicks ). Like this article mentions,the choice for Stern was always for Jerry Colangelo. There was also some chatter for Jerry West, Kevin Pritchard and even Donnie Walsh but Stern's preference always was for Colangelo. The story goes that given the fact that Colangelo was an owner himself, of one of the most successful franchises in the league, Dolan felt uneasy with him and went with Walsh who has always been a "company first" man. The rest is history.

Good points, but lets be honest, all the managerial peeps chosen (Walsh, Grunwald, Woodsen, etc,) are guys who Isiah either recommended, or can presumably get along with.

I'd love a peek into the inner sanctum to see the extent that guy is still involved, or how Dolan plans to reintegrate him down the road.