AnubisADL wrote:Dude you just posted info verifying what I said. If we trade Camby to a team and he decides to retire he forfeits his remaining salary. I don't understand what the problem is?

What?

Any money paid to a player is included in team salary, even if the player is no longer playing or has retired.

VCoug wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Dude you just posted info verifying what I said. If we trade Camby to a team and he decides to retire he forfeits his remaining salary. I don't understand what the problem is?

What?

Any money paid to a player is included in team salary, even if the player is no longer playing or has retired.

It only costs the team cap space not actual cash. If we trade for someone we are swapping cap space anyway.

An Example. If we trade Camby for "player A" and Camby retires the team receiving Camby pockets his salary since he wont actually be getting paid. That is 7.5 million dollars.

61. What are the rules for retired players? What if the player suffers a career-ending injury?

There's nothing binding about a player announcing his retirement. The player can still sign a new contract and continue playing (if he's not under contract), or return to his team (if he is still under contract) and resume his career.

The only exception to this is when a player is still under contract, wants to quit, and his team doesn't want to let him out of his contract. Under these circumstances the player can file for retirement with the league. The player is placed on the league's Voluntarily Retired list (see question number 77), forgoes his remaining salary, and cannot return to the league for one year. The latter requirement prevents players from using retirement as an underhanded way to change teams, and can be overridden with unanimous approval from all 30 teams. For example, guard Jason Williams signed with the LA Clippers in August 2008, then changed his mind the following month, announcing his retirement. He applied for reinstatement in early 2009, but his request was denied by a vote of 24-6. Williams later signed with the Orlando Magic once the one-year anniversary of his retirement announcement had passed.

LOL, Reading is fundamental.

AnubisADL wrote:

61. What are the rules for retired players? What if the player suffers a career-ending injury?

There's nothing binding about a player announcing his retirement. The player can still sign a new contract and continue playing (if he's not under contract), or return to his team (if he is still under contract) and resume his career.

The only exception to this is when a player is still under contract, wants to quit, and his team doesn't want to let him out of his contract. Under these circumstances the player can file for retirement with the league. The player is placed on the league's Voluntarily Retired list (see question number 77), forgoes his remaining salary, and cannot return to the league for one year. The latter requirement prevents players from using retirement as an underhanded way to change teams, and can be overridden with unanimous approval from all 30 teams. For example, guard Jason Williams signed with the LA Clippers in August 2008, then changed his mind the following month, announcing his retirement. He applied for reinstatement in early 2009, but his request was denied by a vote of 24-6. Williams later signed with the Orlando Magic once the one-year anniversary of his retirement announcement had passed.

LOL, Reading is fundamental.

Yeah, it is.

AnubisADL wrote:- Camby is under contract
- No team is going let him out of his contract and pay him to sit home

If we trade Camby to the Timberwolves and he doesn't want to be there he can retire and Minnesota doesn't pay his salary. End of story.

I dont even know what point you are arguing now.

VDesai wrote:Copeland has to be an A...the guy was totally off the radar and was a shot in the dark to make the team.

Kidd was awesome at the beginning of the year, but his shocking dissapearance in the playoffs is killing us right now.

Sheed was a good move with little risk. I combine him with Kenyon- they gave us a similar jolt- one at the beginning one at the end.

Thats the whole thing--KIdd was awesome at start of season. Well that was the scare and criticism of this team--that the players we paid a lot for--would not make it to the end with the goods--and that proves to be the case.

martin wrote:

VCoug wrote:

martin wrote:

VCoug wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Marcus Camby is still solid pickup because he can be traded and retire. He is an asset since we are capped out. The same with Jason Kidd.

If a player retires their contract still counts against the cap and any guaranteed money still gets paid to them.

You know what, I know this has come up before, and I don't recall the details, but I just don't believe that a player can retire AND still get paid. Makes no sense. Why would owners EVER agree to something like that?

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q61

61. What are the rules for retired players? What if the player suffers a career-ending injury?

There's nothing binding about a player announcing his retirement. The player can still sign a new contract and continue playing (if he's not under contract), or return to his team (if he is still under contract) and resume his career.

The only exception to this is when a player is still under contract, wants to quit, and his team doesn't want to let him out of his contract. Under these circumstances the player can file for retirement with the league. The player is placed on the league's Voluntarily Retired list (see question number 77), forgoes his remaining salary, and cannot return to the league for one year. The latter requirement prevents players from using retirement as an underhanded way to change teams, and can be overridden with unanimous approval from all 30 teams. For example, guard Jason Williams signed with the LA Clippers in August 2008, then changed his mind the following month, announcing his retirement. He applied for reinstatement in early 2009, but his request was denied by a vote of 24-6. Williams later signed with the Orlando Magic once the one-year anniversary of his retirement announcement had passed.

Any money paid to a player is included in team salary, even if the player is no longer playing or has retired.

There is one exception whereby a player can continue to receive his salary, but the salary is excluded from team salary. This is when a player suffers a career-ending injury or illness. The team must waive the player, and can apply for this salary exclusion on the one-year anniversary of the last game in which the player played. Only the player's team at the time the injury or illness was discovered (or reasonably should have been discovered) can apply for this salary exclusion.

The determination as to whether an injury or illness is career ending is made by a physician jointly selected by the league and players association. The determination is based on whether the injury or illness will prevent the player from playing for the remainder of his career, or if it is severe enough that continuing to play constitutes a medically unacceptable risk.

If the injury exclusion is granted, the player's salary is removed from the team salary effective:

• If the player played 10 or more games that season, on the one-year anniversary of the player's last game.


• If the player played fewer than 10 games that season, 60 days after his last game, or the one-year anniversary of his last game in the previous season, whichever is later.

If the player "proves the doctors wrong" and resumes his career, then his salary is returned to the team salary when he plays in his 25th game1 in any one season, for any team. This allows a player to attempt to resume his career without affecting his previous team unless his comeback is ultimately successful. If the 25th game was a playoff game, then the player's salary is returned to the cap effective on the date of the team's last regular season game (i.e., the returned salary counts toward the luxury tax).

There are a few additional nuances to the salary exclusion:

• If the player resumes his career and his salary is returned to the team salary, the team can re-apply for the salary exclusion under the same rules (including the rules for the waiting period).


• If a player retires, even for medical reasons, his team does not receive a salary cap exception to acquire a replacement player.


• A team cannot apply for this salary exclusion if they have applied for a Disabled Player exception (see question number 25) that season, whether the exception was granted or not.


• If this salary exclusion is granted, the team cannot re-sign or re-acquire the player at any time.


• This salary exclusion can be used when a player dies while under contract.

Guaranteed money is guaranteed money.

Dude, you will never be a lawyer. The above doesn't say what you think it says.

It says exactly what it says. This isn't some labyrinthine legalese, it's plain English. Any money paid to a player, active or retired, counts against the cap. In two specific circumstances could a player not count against the cap:

1. Retirement due to medical reasons.

2. A player wants to retire and the team doesn't let him.

That's it. Everyone else is welcome to point out the language where I'm wrong but no one's done it yet.

Bonn1997 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

martin wrote:

VCoug wrote:

martin wrote:

VCoug wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Marcus Camby is still solid pickup because he can be traded and retire. He is an asset since we are capped out. The same with Jason Kidd.

If a player retires their contract still counts against the cap and any guaranteed money still gets paid to them.

You know what, I know this has come up before, and I don't recall the details, but I just don't believe that a player can retire AND still get paid. Makes no sense. Why would owners EVER agree to something like that?

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q61

61. What are the rules for retired players? What if the player suffers a career-ending injury?

There's nothing binding about a player announcing his retirement. The player can still sign a new contract and continue playing (if he's not under contract), or return to his team (if he is still under contract) and resume his career.

The only exception to this is when a player is still under contract, wants to quit, and his team doesn't want to let him out of his contract. Under these circumstances the player can file for retirement with the league. The player is placed on the league's Voluntarily Retired list (see question number 77), forgoes his remaining salary, and cannot return to the league for one year. The latter requirement prevents players from using retirement as an underhanded way to change teams, and can be overridden with unanimous approval from all 30 teams. For example, guard Jason Williams signed with the LA Clippers in August 2008, then changed his mind the following month, announcing his retirement. He applied for reinstatement in early 2009, but his request was denied by a vote of 24-6. Williams later signed with the Orlando Magic once the one-year anniversary of his retirement announcement had passed.

Any money paid to a player is included in team salary, even if the player is no longer playing or has retired.

There is one exception whereby a player can continue to receive his salary, but the salary is excluded from team salary. This is when a player suffers a career-ending injury or illness. The team must waive the player, and can apply for this salary exclusion on the one-year anniversary of the last game in which the player played. Only the player's team at the time the injury or illness was discovered (or reasonably should have been discovered) can apply for this salary exclusion.

The determination as to whether an injury or illness is career ending is made by a physician jointly selected by the league and players association. The determination is based on whether the injury or illness will prevent the player from playing for the remainder of his career, or if it is severe enough that continuing to play constitutes a medically unacceptable risk.

If the injury exclusion is granted, the player's salary is removed from the team salary effective:

• If the player played 10 or more games that season, on the one-year anniversary of the player's last game.


• If the player played fewer than 10 games that season, 60 days after his last game, or the one-year anniversary of his last game in the previous season, whichever is later.

If the player "proves the doctors wrong" and resumes his career, then his salary is returned to the team salary when he plays in his 25th game1 in any one season, for any team. This allows a player to attempt to resume his career without affecting his previous team unless his comeback is ultimately successful. If the 25th game was a playoff game, then the player's salary is returned to the cap effective on the date of the team's last regular season game (i.e., the returned salary counts toward the luxury tax).

There are a few additional nuances to the salary exclusion:

• If the player resumes his career and his salary is returned to the team salary, the team can re-apply for the salary exclusion under the same rules (including the rules for the waiting period).


• If a player retires, even for medical reasons, his team does not receive a salary cap exception to acquire a replacement player.


• A team cannot apply for this salary exclusion if they have applied for a Disabled Player exception (see question number 25) that season, whether the exception was granted or not.


• If this salary exclusion is granted, the team cannot re-sign or re-acquire the player at any time.


• This salary exclusion can be used when a player dies while under contract.

Guaranteed money is guaranteed money.

Dude, you will never be a lawyer. The above doesn't say what you think it says.

It says exactly what it says. This isn't some labyrinthine legalese, it's plain English. Any money paid to a player, active or retired, counts against the cap. In two specific circumstances could a player not count against the cap:

1. Retirement due to medical reasons.

2. A player wants to retire and the team doesn't let him.

That's it. Everyone else is welcome to point out the language where I'm wrong but no one's done it yet.

I don't see any mistake in what you're saying here

Thank you.

yellowboy90 wrote:Camby may still be an asset without retiring because his last year is not guaranteed. so the knicks could offer camby plus 3mil to pay most of his salary and take back a player tied up in a long contract that doesn't fit a teams new structure.

Let's say phx wants to go in a different direction and dump some salary. camby + the non guaranteed contracts+ 3mil for Dudley and Beasley. it gets the knicks Dudley and saves phx around 17.8 mil over 4 yrs. I don't like Beasley but as a role player maybe and his last year is partially guaranteed so he can be cut after next season.

This is exactly right. Guys like Camby and James White, who has a non-guaranteed deal for next season are nice trade chips that should help bring back some depth if we want to.

franco12 wrote:If we're grading Grunwald's moves, can we also grade him on the move to let Lin walk for nothing?

We're bringing up that again??

Didn't the season we had just justify the move?

I forget, did the Knicks lead the league in turnover margin again? Did we win the division for the first time in 13 years? Surpassed 50 wins in the same amount of time? Advanced to 2nd round in same amount of years?

By the way, Jeremy Lin isn't even the best point guard on his own team, that distinction belong to Patrick Beverly.