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The NEW J.R. or CONTRACT JR?
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CashMoney
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With the recent play of JR it made me think, is THIS JR here to stay or is he playing out of his mind for ala its contract time? Personally I think Woody constantly getting on him has made JR turn the corner and I beleive that the man finally gets it. Many of us have been screaming "If he only drove to the hoop more he would be much better." Now he is....so with that in mind what does the UK think?
This is the JR I though he could be. He finally gets it and he can sustain his level of play!
I don't trust him as far as I can throw him! Once he gets a deal the REAL JR will reemerge!
I'm up in the air. I hope that THIS JR is here to stay but I fear he may revert to his USUAL ways!
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israelKnick
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4/13/2013  11:41 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/14/2013  12:07 AM
misterearl wrote:Contract Novak

IsraelKnick - in the case of playing basketball, there is no such thing as innate talent. If that were the case, why aren't we talking about the innate ability of Steve Novak to shoot a three pointer?

If you want to extend the discussion to the concept of being lazy, perhaps the idea that Novak continually cannot adjust his defensive positioning to either stay in front of his man ... or understand the angles enough to rebound the basketball, at 6'10, at a better rate than Pablo Prigioni would suggest some lack of fundamental comprehension. Can anyone argue that Novak has not played up to the level he is capable of?

Does any of this relate to Novak's contract, and the fact he knows he no longer needs to work for his paycheck?

Or is his one-dimensional performance that a result of his low basketball IQ?

If Steve Novak plays the way he played in last years playoffs, we are screwed.

Again, you are asserting race into this.

Novak does not lack effort. He is just not that good. And, if the 3 is not going down, he does not do much else. There is a big difference with missing shots and not playing smart. Steve Sax not being able to throw the ball to first had nothing to do with a lack of effort.

I don't even think that JR does not give effort or has a low basketball IQ. He may just be selfish and does not like getting hit. Is that racism? Does that mean that Novak is selfish too?

And ... as we have seen, we can do quite well with Novak playing like crap. Not so much with JR. He is much more important to this team.
AUTOADVERT
Bonn1997
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4/14/2013  12:16 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/14/2013  12:19 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
misterearl wrote:"What have you done for me lately?" - Janet Jackson

The NEW J.R. or CONTRACT JR?

It just doesn't matter. Without Earl Smith we are not 52-27.

We goin' to Disneyworld!

Jeremy Lin got 8.25mm a year avg for 46 games Novak got 4mm avg. If we got by comps JR is worth 10mm +


No way. Lin is young, does not have the bad history JR does, and averaged 20 points, 8 assists per 36 min. If Lin was worth $8 mil, JR is $4 mil. You know it doesn't work like this anyway - You can't pick the salary of one random player out of the 360 in the league and infer what another should get paid. I don't care how much we pay him for the next 2 years but I don't want him taking up cap space 3 years from now when we have a chance to start anew in terms of salary cap.
ramtour420
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4/14/2013  1:54 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/14/2013  1:55 AM
Smith also has a tattoo of Michael Jordan’s Bulls jersey and state map of New Jersey.

“If I wasn’t from Jersey, I don’t think I’d have the basketball knowledge I have,’’ Smith said.

Smith declined to show His Airness his Jordan tattoo when the Bobcats owner visited the Knicks’ locker room in Charlotte after Smith’s miracle buzzerbeater.

“He’s my favorite player, he didn’t need to see it,’’ Smith said. “It’s about the impact he had on my life and career.


here is the full article
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/add_title_add_tattoo_DTk7IeCLb6rAyXTr4RMAbJ?utm_medium=rss&utm_content=Knicks
Smith idolizes MJ. Annnnd, he is a local, from NJ. I really think we should/can resign him, especially with coach Woodson.
Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
misterearl
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4/14/2013  8:09 AM
The Earl Smith Burden

israelKnick wrote:
Novak does not lack effort. He is just not that good. And, if the 3 is not going down, he does not do much else. There is a big difference with missing shots and not playing smart.

If Novak is not that good, he needs to work harder to get better at rebounding and defending. That is lack of effort. Or it is a result of having a low basketball IQ. You choose.

israelKnick wrote:Steve Sax not being able to throw the ball to first had nothing to do with a lack of effort.

Of course not. Sax had a high baseball IQ to fall back on. Right?

israelKnick wrote:I don't even think that JR does not give effort or has a low basketball IQ. He may just be selfish and does not like getting hit.
Is that racism?

No, not wanting to get hit is not selfish. That is human. No one enjoys getting hit. It requires extra courage to drive the lane against pros.

and extra effort.

once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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4/14/2013  8:14 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/14/2013  8:21 AM
Perception versus Reality

IronWillGiroud wrote:he has proved only one thing: that he is happy being the 6th guy, in the secondary role, and i don't think he has aspirations beyond this,

"I think disappointed is an understatement. My whole process of getting better this summer and everything I went through was to be in that starting role."

- Earl Smith, at the start of the season

You do the math

once a knick always a knick
IronWillGiroud
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4/14/2013  9:32 AM
you're out of control, misterearl,

anyone that doesn't subscribe to your narrative on this board is a bad person,

i hope you are at least enjoying your imaginary crusade.

---

a quick word on innate talent,

you would agree that there is a large difference between Kobe Bean and Reggie Evans, both have worked hard to reach the NBA but the limiting factor is the talent they were born with,

---

a quick word on what people say and what they do,

you shall know them by their fruits, jr smith is 27 or 28 years old, if he has not placed himself in a primary role up to this point then it does not really matter what he says to the media in the off season,

The Will, check out the Official Home of Will's GameDay Art: http://tinyurl.com/thewillgameday
misterearl
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4/14/2013  10:00 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/14/2013  10:05 AM
Who's Bad?

IronWillGiroud - anyone that doesn't subscribe to your narrative on this board is a bad person,

Wrong IronWill, you really think you can makes arbitrary stuff, up as a foundation for prejudice, and not get called on it?

(please note: the word used was "prejudice")

once a knick always a knick
Bonn1997
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4/14/2013  10:37 AM
IronWillGiroud wrote:you're out of control, misterearl,

anyone that doesn't subscribe to your narrative on this board is a bad person,

i hope you are at least enjoying your imaginary crusade.

---

a quick word on innate talent,

you would agree that there is a large difference between Kobe Bean and Reggie Evans, both have worked hard to reach the NBA but the limiting factor is the talent they were born with,

---

a quick word on what people say and what they do,

you shall know them by their fruits, jr smith is 27 or 28 years old, if he has not placed himself in a primary role up to this point then it does not really matter what he says to the media in the off season,

Misterearl is a bit harsh on those with opposing views but I think most of us are. I definitely wouldn't call him out of control.
dk7th
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4/14/2013  10:47 AM
smith went straight from high school to the pros, indicating dominance athletically and stature as a teenager. if you are bigger, stronger, quicker than everybody else then you can get by. but then bad habits are also formed that are hard to break.

the downside of such a leap to the pros is almost always rawness and an undeveloped head for the game that gets exposed when you finally are playing among your peers in terms of stature and athletic ability. coachability and ego are also a factor here.

so it is not so surprising that his entire career has been spotty and inconsistent. happily, it looks like woodson is the first coach to have gotten through to smith and we are enjoying the results. we have seen how good he can be so it will be interesting to witness how he performs in the crucible of the playoffs, especially the second round.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
israelKnick
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4/14/2013  10:50 AM
dk7th wrote:smith went straight from high school to the pros, indicating dominance athletically and stature as a teenager. if you are bigger, stronger, quicker than everybody else then you can get by. but then bad habits are also formed that are hard to break.

the downside of such a leap to the pros is almost always rawness and an undeveloped head for the game that gets exposed when you finally are playing among your peers in terms of stature and athletic ability. coachability and ego are also a factor here.

so it is not so surprising that his entire career has been spotty and inconsistent. happily, it looks like woodson is the first coach to have gotten through to smith and we are enjoying the results. we have seen how good he can be so it will be interesting to witness how he performs in the crucible of the playoffs, especially the second round.

Are you inferring that he did not go to college because he is dumb? Ahem ... that may be called out for prejudice.
misterearl
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4/14/2013  10:56 AM
Group Hug

israelKnick wrote:
Are you inferring that he did not go to college because he is dumb? Ahem ... that may be called out for prejudice.

IsrealKnick - nice try. dk7th implied nothing of the kind and you know it.

dk7th also makes some valid points about the learning curve of Smith's career, due to his decision to pass college and collect $200.

once a knick always a knick
Bonn1997
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4/14/2013  10:59 AM
I didn't see anything in that post that indicates DK7th thinks JR is an unintelligent human being. I'd assume both you and he are aware that many players went straight to the NBA from high school because of HS performance and it had nothing to do with intelligence. It's not like they administered IQ tests and directed people either to college or the NBA.
israelKnick
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4/14/2013  11:01 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/14/2013  11:03 AM
misterearl wrote:Group Hug

israelKnick wrote:
Are you inferring that he did not go to college because he is dumb? Ahem ... that may be called out for prejudice.

IsrealKnick - nice try. dk7th implied nothing of the kind and you know it.

dk7th also makes some valid points about the learning curve of Smith's career, due to his decision to pass college and collect $200.

Interesting that KG and Kobe figured it out pretty quickly. Perhaps it is the bball IQ thing? I don't think so. What's he missing? Maybe he just likes taking long (contested) 2's.
misterearl
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4/14/2013  11:09 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/14/2013  11:12 AM
Different Strokes

israelKnick wrote:
Interesting that KG and Kobe figured it out pretty quickly. Perhaps it is the bball IQ thing? I don't think so. What's he missing? Maybe he just likes taking long (contested) 2's.

"Long contested 2's"? What games are you watching? Over the past two months Earl Smith is shooting nearly percent from the field. Fidee. He has also logged more minutes per game than anyone except Carmelo and Raymond Felton.

Why not color him durable and dependable?

once a knick always a knick
israelKnick
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4/14/2013  11:13 AM
misterearl wrote:Different Strokes

israelKnick wrote:
Interesting that KG and Kobe figured it out pretty quickly. Perhaps it is the bball IQ thing? I don't think so. What's he missing? Maybe he just likes taking long (contested) 2's.

"Long contested 2's"? What games are you watching? Over the past two months Earl Smith is shooting nearly percent from the field. Fidee. He has also logged more minutes than anyone except Carmelo and Raymond Felton.

Color him durable and dependable.

He has been great over this stretch, which is where and why the argument began. Is this the JR of the next few years? Or, will we see the JR that we have seen for the last few years?

You know that this will be on the minds of all NBA GM's who entertain the idea of signing him, right?
dk7th
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4/14/2013  11:56 AM
fans and gms and coaches will be able to make a confident assessment of this guy when we hit the second round. maybe even the 1st round if the celtics can make a series of it.

the crucible of the playoffs are where habits both good and bad are revealed. if he reverts to the bad jr then he is going to be considered what he has always been up until lately: a fool's gold, zero-sum or negative-sum player, and not a winner.

however, if he demonstrates the good jr then he will be in high demand.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
RonRon
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4/14/2013  12:15 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/14/2013  6:14 PM
it is irrelevent which JR is the REAL JR, because of the price we can pay him(lower than his market value), and the lack of realistic scenarios we can actually acquire players of his skill caliber
We only have mini MLE, trade with limited assets and low salary in the range of about 4m *white, jones, brewer's exemption and 150% rule*, vet min, and 1 1st round pick this summer

This year, he has improved much this season, we will have a season to play before play offs regardless every season regardless of how he performs in the play offs last season.
Indiana played HORRIBLE outside of the first 2 games vs Heat, including Hibbert and George Hill, but Pacer's kept them and payed them good money
It is called "BUILDING A TEAM" and letting the team develop, you cannot always look to measure what one player is worth by his accomplishments or STAT which DARTH loves to do...


If he do great in play offs, maybe more teams will be willing to bid for his services at a higher price

BUT

as for for us, It does not change what we can offer him regardless and for a starting contract of about 5m, he is still UNDERPAID
More importantly, We have no way of acquiring a player of his talent and we are over the tax threshold
misterearl
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4/14/2013  12:15 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/14/2013  12:16 PM
Coaches and Players

israelKnick wrote:Is this the JR of the next few years?

A. This is the Earl Smith du jour under the stern guidance of Mike Woodson.

israelKnick wrote:You know that this will be on the minds of all NBA GM's who entertain the idea of signing him, right?

A. Yes, General Managers will need to consider whether the coach they have in place will gain the recalcitrant respect of Earl Smith.

israelKnick wrote:Or, will we see the JR that we have seen for the last few years?

A. Unless you consider coaches as interchangeable ornaments, it would be wise to evaluate Smith's performance under Woodson in a separate envelope.

The past is in the past.

once a knick always a knick
GustavBahler
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4/14/2013  12:21 PM
If JR wasn't making an effort to be more of a team player and was only looking to score, I might suspect as much. The other night JR got that late tech which was costly. Last season many of us would be saying "there goes JR again". Those kind of mental lapses are more the exception to the rule this season. I don't believe its because of money.

As far as how would JR play somewhere else? I don't know. Its clear that JR respects Woodson. he's playing lights out off the bench even though he went into this season determined to play well enough to start. I guess it depends on the team he goes to and who is coaching. I hope we don't find out.
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