IronWillGiroud wrote:Rest in peace Kobe Bean,

hey at what point should we expect a player to understand his limits? guy is like 35 years old, that's almost middle age, ask to come out for a break if you need to,

what is this expectation we have from coach d'antoni to treat guys with baby gloves?

Watching the game it was like he was never going to get thru it without getting hurt. When he went down the first time he didn't get up for awhile. When he went down the second time he got up and limped and wouldn't put weight on his hurt foot at the free throw line. He had a different look also. He looked scared, concerned exhausted, something other than supremely confident. As he played he seemed to loosen up and his limp went away. But he never came out of the game and the third time he went down he was done.

IronWillGiroud wrote:no coach can 'run you into the ground' if you do not allow this, we are not talking about a rookie that is hungry for all the time he can get but an nba legend with more clout than most coaches in the league,

let's now take back the anti-d'antoni words here

IronWillGiroud wrote:For the past two games, Bryant had refused to sit a minute.

let's now take back the anti-d'antoni words here

No one is saying its all his fault but if D'Antoni lets Kobe play until the wheels come off, he has to take his share of the blame for letting him have his way. Nothing unreasonable about any coach taking responsibility for the decisions he makes.

GustavBahler wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:For the past two games, Bryant had refused to sit a minute.

let's now take back the anti-d'antoni words here

No one is saying its all his fault but if D'Antoni lets Kobe play until the wheels come off, he has to take his share of the blame for letting him have his way. Nothing unreasonable about any coach taking responsibility for the decisions he makes.

at 34 and as one of the greatest players in the history of the world, hey, if i'm coaching you and you want to run 48, go run 48,

i would hope you can trust a player of kobe's station to know his body

NYDiva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:For the past two games, Bryant had refused to sit a minute.

let's now take back the anti-d'antoni words here

No one is saying its all his fault but if D'Antoni lets Kobe play until the wheels come off, he has to take his share of the blame for letting him have his way. Nothing unreasonable about any coach taking responsibility for the decisions he makes.

Exactly. The coach holds some responsibility here.

If this was Pop, you'd better believe he'd have sat a banged up 34-year-old Kobe. He never would have allowed him to play those kinds of minutes in the first place.

alright that's fair, pop would probably yank him,

at the same time, pop and coach mike, two different philosophies, and you can't necessarily say that d'antoni is wrong with his approach just based on this incident,

we can argue pop and coach mike's approaches, but we cannot do this based only on this kobe injury,

GustavBahler wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:For the past two games, Bryant had refused to sit a minute.

let's now take back the anti-d'antoni words here

No one is saying its all his fault but if D'Antoni lets Kobe play until the wheels come off, he has to take his share of the blame for letting him have his way. Nothing unreasonable about any coach taking responsibility for the decisions he makes.

at 34 and as one of the greatest players in the history of the world, hey, if i'm coaching you and you want to run 48, go run 48,

i would hope you can trust a player of kobe's station to know his body

Its not a question of Kobe knowing his body when he is on the court, he doesn't care. Kobe will do what it takes to win even if it means pushing his body past its limits. Managing a player's minutes, especially a player with as many miles on his body as Kobe has, is part of his job. Its always been part of a coach's job.

If a coach tells a player "you want to run 48, go run 48" fine. If it blows up in his face he has to take responsibility for that decision. Nothing unfair about that.

alright, fair, fair

GustavBahler wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:For the past two games, Bryant had refused to sit a minute.

let's now take back the anti-d'antoni words here

No one is saying its all his fault but if D'Antoni lets Kobe play until the wheels come off, he has to take his share of the blame for letting him have his way. Nothing unreasonable about any coach taking responsibility for the decisions he makes.

at 34 and as one of the greatest players in the history of the world, hey, if i'm coaching you and you want to run 48, go run 48,

i would hope you can trust a player of kobe's station to know his body

Its not a question of Kobe knowing his body when he is on the court, he doesn't care. Kobe will do what it takes to win even if it means pushing his body past its limits. Managing a player's minutes, especially a player with as many miles on his body as Kobe has, is part of his job. Its always been part of a coach's job.

If a coach tells a player "you want to run 48, go run 48" fine. If it blows up in his face he has to take responsibility for that decision. Nothing unfair about that.

nixluva wrote:Watching the Lakers I think it was clear that MDA was not in a strong enough position to tell Kobe to do anything. He finally got Kobe to believe in the idea of making his teammates better, which he did for a good stretch but then Kobe reverts to his usual "I can do it all by myself" and there's not much a coach can do about that. Even Phil couldn't completely control Kobe, tho some people think he's always been able to. Still Phil would have more clout than D'Antoni.

MDA is in a can't win situation in LA. He's not loved by the fans and he can't do whatever he wants when it comes to Kobe or D12. Heck when he sat Pau he got killed. He's just not in a strong enough position to do exactly what he wants to do. The pressure to win is intense. After Brown's firing no coach would be unless it was Phil. I kept thinking MDA needs to sit Kobe even it if just for a few minutes!!! But it never happened. Just so we're clear MANY coaches do this. Woody rode some of his guys into the ground. Woody is lucky that Melo didn't seriously injure himself. Thibs had Rose playing too long. It's not just an MDA thing. Coaches are under pressure to win and that leads to playing guys too much. The only time you see them not do it is after they've won and they have the clout to do things differently.

I agree, a lot of coaches still do it but it seems to be on the decline. Much as I used to love basketball in the 90s, and that old school toughness, playing injured, etc etc, those players paid a price that it's just not worth paying. Whats the point in a player gutting out an injury so they don't miss two weeks, only for them to worsen the injury and be out for months?

Woody, Thibs and D'Antoni are three coaches who will ride a player into the ground. Just look at the toll its taken on the Bulls roster. Thankfully our trainers and medical staff seem to have Woody's ear, and have been pushing him all season to put players health first, but he does have lapses when desperate (Amar'e). Popovich was really ahead of the curve when he started resting his players throughout the season.