MSG3 wrote:

3G4G wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Only in New York would people be dying to trade the only all-stars they have had in the past 15 years. Unreal.

+1. The guy is 28 years old. Unreal.

I understand the need to try and make the roster more cap flexible, but to do a complete rebuild at this point is nonsense.

Nothing is UNREAL about being....

88-57 after trade and the other team being 99-56 after the trade. 1 team has their all-star taken from them who comes to us and the other left with only 1 semi all-star

We start out 14-14 after the trade get hot and put together two great stretches of 18-6 play and then revert back to 38-31(and regressing) which is closer to .500 basketball. This is with the All-Star getting older and salary ballooning.

These are simple minded talking points. First off, Denver's success revolves around Lawson. The only player that has any real hand in their record since the trade that came from the Knicks is Gallo, and he's been wildly inconsistent. Wilson is just starting to play well for them. Our success is more tied to that trade than Denver's. And lets not forget that since the trade we've won better than 60% of our games with injuries every step of the way.

I'm not arguing for or against the trade. Both sides have good arguments. But your argument for trading a top player in his prime years as being an obvious choice is ridiculous.

Both teams benefitted greatly from the trade. With Melo the knicks have a player who can push you to the playoffs regardless of supporting cast and win games and close games on his own. We haven't had that type of player in a long time. It's as simple as that. Disliking his game is fine, but this is a stars league, and the only teams that win championships have a guy who can take over the game on offense. If we were to let that go shame on us because it will be a long time before we get it back.

Knixkik wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

3G4G wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Only in New York would people be dying to trade the only all-stars they have had in the past 15 years. Unreal.

+1. The guy is 28 years old. Unreal.

I understand the need to try and make the roster more cap flexible, but to do a complete rebuild at this point is nonsense.

Nothing is UNREAL about being....

88-57 after trade and the other team being 99-56 after the trade. 1 team has their all-star taken from them who comes to us and the other left with only 1 semi all-star

We start out 14-14 after the trade get hot and put together two great stretches of 18-6 play and then revert back to 38-31(and regressing) which is closer to .500 basketball. This is with the All-Star getting older and salary ballooning.

These are simple minded talking points. First off, Denver's success revolves around Lawson. The only player that has any real hand in their record since the trade that came from the Knicks is Gallo, and he's been wildly inconsistent. Wilson is just starting to play well for them. Our success is more tied to that trade than Denver's. And lets not forget that since the trade we've won better than 60% of our games with injuries every step of the way.

I'm not arguing for or against the trade. Both sides have good arguments. But your argument for trading a top player in his prime years as being an obvious choice is ridiculous.

Both teams benefitted greatly from the trade. With Melo the knicks have a player who can push you to the playoffs regardless of supporting cast and win games and close games on his own. We haven't had that type of player in a long time. It's as simple as that. Disliking his game is fine, but this is a stars league, and the only teams that win championships have a guy who can take over the game on offense. If we were to let that go shame on us because it will be a long time before we get it back.

Melo's uncoachable. I like Briggs proposal....ALOT!

RonRon wrote:what do you *Briggs* and other's here feel about my opinions and comparisions to these players?
I don't see Olynicks being anything comparable to Melo's production either

I do think Melo is flawed and is a good scorer that has many flaws
He simply does not have a high IQ, questionable leadership, not a good defender, lacks focus, and needs max attention on him
Most importantly he does not make anyone around him better a reason, especially when his shot is falling, he does not try to focus on other area's like rebounding/defense/facilitating instead
He would continue to shoot his way out of a slump regardless of the match up as he always wants to prove he is an elite scorer in the league

We were playing as a team without Melo in the lineup last year and this year and the NO ISOLATION/stand around offense
I am not saying we don't need Melo cause we do when if we are contending for a ring for playoffs but we have to consistently look to get high quality % shots on every possesion by attacking the defense rather than trying to just get the ball in the the bucket
The is a great flaw of Melo because he is so confident in his ability to score but we need better structure and consitency
He does have the killer instinct/confidence to be able to play in NY but unfortunately it can kill ourselves with our opponents when he is missing

Without Melo, the ball is flowing and we attack the DEF as a whole, and it is not all Melo's fault
Players tend to stand around because they want to give Melo the room to operate 1v1, but they have no clue HOW he is going to try to score...

Every time we dribble up the court, everyone is looking for the chance to give the ball to Melo almost every possesion and it gets predictable vs ATTACKING the defense and earning position for better/higher % shots
This part is on Woodson as well as the players on the court with Melo

''The Wolters kid is the real deal and as a good a point guard as we've played all year,'' New Mexico coach Steve Alford said. ''I thought he really controlled the game for 40 minutes and did a really good job of running their team. You can tell that he's their leader and other guys play very well off of him.''

BRIGGS wrote:

Killa4luv wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:pick 2 and 13 in this draft and well take Ben Gordon off their hands? If I can get both Kelly Olynck(has to be there for me to do it) and two of Nate Wolters CJ Mccolum or Erick Greene---I would do it. In a short time Kelly O will be better than Carmelo and these three guards are going to be great NBA players.

This from the guy who said Andrew Bogut would be a perrenial all-star and HOFer.

TO try to say a kid is going to be better than a player on Carmelo's level is just assinine.

I think Olynck will eventually be known as a better player in the NBA than Carmelo--I do. The going rate for a Carmelo would be two lottery picks cap space and a solid vet. If we were able to rinse repeat with Chandler--all of that money would be off the books and we could have as many as 5-6 salary controlled players that we picked. That is the model in the NBA. Or maybe were better served watching as Carmelo slowly becomes a shell of himself in the next 3 years. Than what?

Then we can gut the team for John Wall! Lol!!!

MSG3 wrote:

3G4G wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Only in New York would people be dying to trade the only all-stars they have had in the past 15 years. Unreal.

+1. The guy is 28 years old. Unreal.

I understand the need to try and make the roster more cap flexible, but to do a complete rebuild at this point is nonsense.

Nothing is UNREAL about being....

88-57 after trade and the other team being 99-56 after the trade. 1 team has their all-star taken from them who comes to us and the other left with only 1 semi all-star

We start out 14-14 after the trade get hot and put together two great stretches of 18-6 play and then revert back to 38-31(and regressing) which is closer to .500 basketball. This is with the All-Star getting older and salary ballooning.

These are simple minded talking points. First off, Denver's success revolves around Lawson. The only player that has any real hand in their record since the trade that came from the Knicks is Gallo, and he's been wildly inconsistent. Wilson is just starting to play well for them. Our success is more tied to that trade than Denver's. And lets not forget that since the trade we've won better than 60% of our games with injuries every step of the way.

I'm not arguing for or against the trade. Both sides have good arguments. But your argument for trading a top player in his prime years as being an obvious choice is ridiculous.

Two points: A) Melo has been wildly inconsistent too. B) I think any Denver fan would say that Gallo has been one of the keys to their success. If you want the #s, Gallo's win shares are high, wins produced are good (but not great), and he has the best on/off the court +/- on the team (excluding Q. Miller who has an outstanding +/- but has played only 15 min this season).

MSG3 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

3G4G wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Only in New York would people be dying to trade the only all-stars they have had in the past 15 years. Unreal.

+1. The guy is 28 years old. Unreal.

I understand the need to try and make the roster more cap flexible, but to do a complete rebuild at this point is nonsense.

Nothing is UNREAL about being....

88-57 after trade and the other team being 99-56 after the trade. 1 team has their all-star taken from them who comes to us and the other left with only 1 semi all-star

We start out 14-14 after the trade get hot and put together two great stretches of 18-6 play and then revert back to 38-31(and regressing) which is closer to .500 basketball. This is with the All-Star getting older and salary ballooning.

These are simple minded talking points. First off, Denver's success revolves around Lawson. The only player that has any real hand in their record since the trade that came from the Knicks is Gallo, and he's been wildly inconsistent. Wilson is just starting to play well for them. Our success is more tied to that trade than Denver's. And lets not forget that since the trade we've won better than 60% of our games with injuries every step of the way.

I'm not arguing for or against the trade. Both sides have good arguments. But your argument for trading a top player in his prime years as being an obvious choice is ridiculous.

Two points: A) Melo has been wildly inconsistent too. B) I think any Denver fan would say that Gallo has been one of the keys to their success. If you want the #s, Gallo's win shares are high, wins produced are good (but not great), and he has the best on/off the court +/- on the team (excluding Q. Miller who has an outstanding +/- but has played only 15 min this season).

Melo has struggled when injured. And how do his numbers stack up against the ones you mentioned for Gallo?

Gallo's #s are deflated from injury early in the year too. You might regret asking for this info. but here you go

Win shares: Gallo is .153 and Melo is .167
Wins produced: Gallo is .127 and Melo is .012. (WP gives a lot of weight to rebounding and Melo is the worst rebounder in the league for his position - so that's why his # is so low.)
On/off +/-: Gallo is +8.2 and Melo is +9.0

Let's not forget also that it wasn't a straight up Melo for Gallo swap. We also gave up other young players with trade value at the time, picks, and a lot of cap space since Melo is paid 2 to 3 times what Gallo is.

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

3G4G wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Only in New York would people be dying to trade the only all-stars they have had in the past 15 years. Unreal.

+1. The guy is 28 years old. Unreal.

I understand the need to try and make the roster more cap flexible, but to do a complete rebuild at this point is nonsense.

Nothing is UNREAL about being....

88-57 after trade and the other team being 99-56 after the trade. 1 team has their all-star taken from them who comes to us and the other left with only 1 semi all-star

We start out 14-14 after the trade get hot and put together two great stretches of 18-6 play and then revert back to 38-31(and regressing) which is closer to .500 basketball. This is with the All-Star getting older and salary ballooning.

These are simple minded talking points. First off, Denver's success revolves around Lawson. The only player that has any real hand in their record since the trade that came from the Knicks is Gallo, and he's been wildly inconsistent. Wilson is just starting to play well for them. Our success is more tied to that trade than Denver's. And lets not forget that since the trade we've won better than 60% of our games with injuries every step of the way.

I'm not arguing for or against the trade. Both sides have good arguments. But your argument for trading a top player in his prime years as being an obvious choice is ridiculous.

Two points: A) Melo has been wildly inconsistent too. B) I think any Denver fan would say that Gallo has been one of the keys to their success. If you want the #s, Gallo's win shares are high, wins produced are good (but not great), and he has the best on/off the court +/- on the team (excluding Q. Miller who has an outstanding +/- but has played only 15 min this season).

Melo has struggled when injured. And how do his numbers stack up against the ones you mentioned for Gallo?

Gallo's #s are deflated from injury early in the year too. You might regret asking for this info. but here you go

Win shares: Gallo is .153 and Melo is .167
Wins produced: Gallo is .127 and Melo is .012. (WP gives a lot of weight to rebounding and Melo is the worst rebounder in the league for his position - so that's why his # is so low.)
On/off +/-: Gallo is +8.2 and Melo is +9.0

Let's not forget also that it wasn't a straight up Melo for Gallo swap. We also gave up other young players with trade value at the time, picks, and a lot of cap space since Melo is paid 2 to 3 times what Gallo is.

Numbers can show anything you want it to. If you know basketball you can't suggest Gallo gets you more wins then Melo.

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

3G4G wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Only in New York would people be dying to trade the only all-stars they have had in the past 15 years. Unreal.

+1. The guy is 28 years old. Unreal.

I understand the need to try and make the roster more cap flexible, but to do a complete rebuild at this point is nonsense.

Nothing is UNREAL about being....

88-57 after trade and the other team being 99-56 after the trade. 1 team has their all-star taken from them who comes to us and the other left with only 1 semi all-star

We start out 14-14 after the trade get hot and put together two great stretches of 18-6 play and then revert back to 38-31(and regressing) which is closer to .500 basketball. This is with the All-Star getting older and salary ballooning.

These are simple minded talking points. First off, Denver's success revolves around Lawson. The only player that has any real hand in their record since the trade that came from the Knicks is Gallo, and he's been wildly inconsistent. Wilson is just starting to play well for them. Our success is more tied to that trade than Denver's. And lets not forget that since the trade we've won better than 60% of our games with injuries every step of the way.

I'm not arguing for or against the trade. Both sides have good arguments. But your argument for trading a top player in his prime years as being an obvious choice is ridiculous.

Two points: A) Melo has been wildly inconsistent too. B) I think any Denver fan would say that Gallo has been one of the keys to their success. If you want the #s, Gallo's win shares are high, wins produced are good (but not great), and he has the best on/off the court +/- on the team (excluding Q. Miller who has an outstanding +/- but has played only 15 min this season).

Melo has struggled when injured. And how do his numbers stack up against the ones you mentioned for Gallo?

Gallo's #s are deflated from injury early in the year too. You might regret asking for this info. but here you go

Win shares: Gallo is .153 and Melo is .167
Wins produced: Gallo is .127 and Melo is .012. (WP gives a lot of weight to rebounding and Melo is the worst rebounder in the league for his position - so that's why his # is so low.)
On/off +/-: Gallo is +8.2 and Melo is +9.0

Let's not forget also that it wasn't a straight up Melo for Gallo swap. We also gave up other young players with trade value at the time, picks, and a lot of cap space since Melo is paid 2 to 3 times what Gallo is.

Numbers can show anything you want it to. If you know basketball you can't suggest Gallo gets you more wins then Melo.

Do you want to reply to anything that I actually did say rather than making straw man arguments?

Sorry it's just difficult seeing fans not support their best players. The gallo vs Melo comparison has to stop. I enjoy being a playoff team even if most people here think being a young .500 team is more fun.

Knixkik wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

3G4G wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Only in New York would people be dying to trade the only all-stars they have had in the past 15 years. Unreal.

+1. The guy is 28 years old. Unreal.

I understand the need to try and make the roster more cap flexible, but to do a complete rebuild at this point is nonsense.

Nothing is UNREAL about being....

88-57 after trade and the other team being 99-56 after the trade. 1 team has their all-star taken from them who comes to us and the other left with only 1 semi all-star

We start out 14-14 after the trade get hot and put together two great stretches of 18-6 play and then revert back to 38-31(and regressing) which is closer to .500 basketball. This is with the All-Star getting older and salary ballooning.

These are simple minded talking points. First off, Denver's success revolves around Lawson. The only player that has any real hand in their record since the trade that came from the Knicks is Gallo, and he's been wildly inconsistent. Wilson is just starting to play well for them. Our success is more tied to that trade than Denver's. And lets not forget that since the trade we've won better than 60% of our games with injuries every step of the way.

I'm not arguing for or against the trade. Both sides have good arguments. But your argument for trading a top player in his prime years as being an obvious choice is ridiculous.

Both teams benefitted greatly from the trade. With Melo the knicks have a player who can push you to the playoffs regardless of supporting cast and win games and close games on his own. We haven't had that type of player in a long time. It's as simple as that. Disliking his game is fine, but this is a stars league, and the only teams that win championships have a guy who can take over the game on offense. If we were to let that go shame on us because it will be a long time before we get it back.