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Need to surround Melo with mobile skilled scorers with good charchater
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Papabear
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3/12/2013  6:06 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/12/2013  6:13 PM
tkf wrote:
Papabear wrote:
dk7th wrote:
Papabear wrote:
dk7th wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Each position must be a player who can score pass and handle. Melo is forced to take 20 shots because we dont have enough scoring. Denver and the Spurs are good examples of this--any given night--you can have a guy score 20 and there is no dependance on 1 player. We put complete focus on what someone from the Knicks organization believed would beat Miami and forgot that there are 30 teams. We have a great player in Melo--if you look back at the Olympics he was a top 3 player. But on a team where he needs to really score 30---it wont work hes not a Kobe type. As much as Im back and forth with JR Smith because we simply dont have the scorers --I think that he should be a s+t candidate or just let him go. His character is not good enough.

the days of the volume shooter inefficient scorer are coming to an end. the new nba looks for players who are going to be able to score efficiently, just look at what wade and lebron are talking about.

the knicks would be better off blowing this dinosaur roster up because they will get nowhere with this group of players.

and just so you don't think i am singling melo out, i don't think the thunder are going to get a title with westbrook as a volume shooter, no matter what other ways he can have a positive impact on the game. same with rose. these players really need to tighten up their games or they'll be a hindrance to a title in spite of themselves.

the knicks are way behind the curve as usual....

Papabear Says

Maybe if Melo had a Wade and Bosh on the Knicks he would win a title. If Rose had a LeBron and Wade on his team he would win a title. Melo has no one he can depend on to make shots night after night. I think the knicks could win a title if we had Westbrooks and Amare was healthy.
Melo has no one to back him up. Even if we Kept Gallo and Wilson Chandler. They were fun to watch but just a 500 ball team if that. I think we better think of players to suround Melo with because Melo ain't going nowhere. Dolan the owner the money man will make sure Melo retires a Knick.

lebron has always made others better. wade when he defends s a superior player and he has on occasion made others around him better. he has worked on being more efficient and that is big. melo has no one to back him up? he created this situation so there is no use lamenting the mess he himself made. i am sure somewhere inside he is starting to regret his decision.

i don't think the fanbase is going to tolerate much more playoff futility from melo. most fans are going to look at his history of failure with the nuggets (save the one year he had billups running the show) and then look at the playoff failure here in new york and put two and two together. they will eventually have to come to the conclusion that melo is not a winner.

playoff opponents, injuries, bad luck, and all the other excuses won't hold any more weight. when the knicks get bounced in the first or second round this year it will be ten years and counting. we may be looking at a 6'8" marbury here.

in fact, i have a feeling he will eventually asked to be traded if free agency doesn't hit first. there's an early termination option in 2014-2015, whatever that means.


Papabear Says

The Nuggets never put a supporting cast behind Melo to win. Melo was the team. What about LeBron for 7 years in Cleveland. Who did he make better? LeBron was able to pick who he wanted on that team. They didn't win a ring. So LeBron jumped ship to a ready made familyand sticking it to us giving hints waring Yankees hats hinting how nice it would be in New York. Wade had a ring. Bosh was an allstar. SO WHO DID LEBRON MAKE BETTER?? He had a ready made family. So you are wrong wrong wrong. All I ask of you is to be honest but your hate of Melo confuse you and I have no problem with you hatting Melo but damn sometimes you sound like a scorned woman and I don't know if you are a male or female so I mean no harm to you by using the word scorned and if you are offended I am so sorry. Lets keep it real Lebron went to a ready made family. Melo came hear hoping to play with Amare and he got injured. Just Keeping it Real

lebron took the cavs to the finals.. he made guys like booby gibson and mo williams better.. he lost to a great spurs team... I am not sure what you are talking about here...

I will say this.. take this same team we have now.. insert lebron, take out carmelo and I would feel good about an ECF appearance and possible trip to finals....


Papabear Says

Ahh OOhh I'm being ganged up by the TKF and dk7th Like I said Lebron didn't win it all in Cleveland and the next season Cleveland had one of the worst records in the league so what happened?? If he made people better they should have still been contenders but they went to the Lottery Lebron wanted to be sure that he would get his ring so he went to a ready made family. Why? because he didn't want all the weight on him. And further more I can make the case that because the weight was off his sholders it made him a better playerSO I MAKE MY CASE THAT THE HEAT MADE LEBRON BETTER BY TAKING THE PRESSURE OFF OF HIMSO ONCE AGAIN YOU ARE WRONG WRONG WRONG.

Papabear
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CrushAlot
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3/12/2013  6:53 PM
gunsnewing wrote:Amares health is the biggest reason we are in this mess. Every thread suggests. What exactly are u talking about? As flawed as melo and tyson arenat least they are on the court for the most part. Amare is approaching Dice levels of bustness
I agree. If you want to be really negative you could point to the fact that the two years preparing to acquire Amare cost the Knicks good young players and draft picks and Amare's deal handcuffs the Knicks for the future. Amare didn't even stay healthy as long as the Suns doctors thought he would.
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sidsanders
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3/12/2013  6:59 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/12/2013  7:00 PM
Papabear wrote:
Papabear Says

Ahh OOhh I'm being ganged up by the TKF and dk7th Like I said Lebron didn't win it all in Cleveland and the next season Cleveland had one of the worst records in the league so what happened?? If he made people better they should have still been contenders but they went to the Lottery Lebron wanted to be sure that he would get his ring so he went to a ready made family. Why? because he didn't want all the weight on him. And further more I can make the case that because the weight was off his sholders it made him a better playerSO I MAKE MY CASE THAT THE HEAT MADE LEBRON BETTER BY TAKING THE PRESSURE OFF OF HIMSO ONCE AGAIN YOU ARE WRONG WRONG WRONG.

on bold part on lbj finals run in cle and then once he left --> just kidding or serious?
i see smilies and all, just wondering...

GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
IronWillGiroud
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3/12/2013  7:02 PM
we can't do that briggs, because Melo will catch jealous feelings and run these good character guys out of town, like with Jeremy Lin,

Jeremy Lin is exactly the player you are describing, but Melo couldn't deal with it.

The Will, check out the Official Home of Will's GameDay Art: http://tinyurl.com/thewillgameday
CrushAlot
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3/12/2013  7:14 PM
IronWillGiroud wrote:we can't do that briggs, because Melo will catch jealous feelings and run these good character guys out of town, like with Jeremy Lin,

Jeremy Lin is exactly the player you are describing, but Melo couldn't deal with it.

Melo was brilliant when he negotiated Lin's contract so that it was almost impossible for the Knicks to match. I heard he advised him to fire his long time agent and skip the USA Select Team because of his upcoming free agency as well.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
IronWillGiroud
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3/12/2013  7:16 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
IronWillGiroud wrote:we can't do that briggs, because Melo will catch jealous feelings and run these good character guys out of town, like with Jeremy Lin,

Jeremy Lin is exactly the player you are describing, but Melo couldn't deal with it.

Melo was brilliant when he negotiated Lin's contract so that it was almost impossible for the Knicks to match. I heard he advised him to fire his long time agent and skip the USA Select Team because of his upcoming free agency as well.

Yea yea, you and I BOTH KNOW what I'm talking about CrushAlot! Now you're gonna demand I provide facts to backup my points, but obviously no one can prove these things.

Just put two and two together and you will get the picture.

The Will, check out the Official Home of Will's GameDay Art: http://tinyurl.com/thewillgameday
TeamBall
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3/12/2013  7:17 PM
IronWillGiroud wrote:we can't do that briggs, because Melo will catch jealous feelings and run these good character guys out of town, like with Jeremy Lin,

Jeremy Lin is exactly the player you are describing, but Melo couldn't deal with it.


This is about the 1000th time ive read this. Where was this ever said aside from some rumors? There was also a rumor that Lin became arrogant and that pissed off his Knick teammates. Do we believe that too? Or only the ones that about Melo?
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IronWillGiroud
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3/12/2013  7:18 PM
TeamBall wrote:
IronWillGiroud wrote:we can't do that briggs, because Melo will catch jealous feelings and run these good character guys out of town, like with Jeremy Lin,

Jeremy Lin is exactly the player you are describing, but Melo couldn't deal with it.


This is about the 1000th time ive read this. Where was this ever said aside from some rumors? There was also a rumor that Lin became arrogant and that pissed off his Knick teammates. Do we believe that too? Or only the ones that about Melo?

Only about Melo, because Lin is a good guy and a good teammate. He's battled adversity and racism in the hoops game all his life, and he continues to persevere because of his outstanding character.

Melo is the type of guy that has a huge painting of himself hanging above his fireplace (true story, google it). I think that tells you all you need to know.

The Will, check out the Official Home of Will's GameDay Art: http://tinyurl.com/thewillgameday
TeamBall
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3/12/2013  7:23 PM
IronWillGiroud wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
IronWillGiroud wrote:we can't do that briggs, because Melo will catch jealous feelings and run these good character guys out of town, like with Jeremy Lin,

Jeremy Lin is exactly the player you are describing, but Melo couldn't deal with it.


This is about the 1000th time ive read this. Where was this ever said aside from some rumors? There was also a rumor that Lin became arrogant and that pissed off his Knick teammates. Do we believe that too? Or only the ones that about Melo?

Only about Melo, because Lin is a good guy and a good teammate. He's battled adversity and racism in the hoops game all his life, and he continues to persevere because of his outstanding character.

Melo is the type of guy that has a huge painting of himself hanging above his fireplace (true story, google it). I think that tells you all you need to know.


Lol I googled it and thats pretty bad. Wow.

Honestly it sounds like you like Lin so you believe the good about him and you dont like Melo so you believe the bad. You cant speak much about how good of a guy he is when you dont even know him.

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IronWillGiroud
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3/12/2013  7:33 PM
TeamBall wrote:
IronWillGiroud wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
IronWillGiroud wrote:we can't do that briggs, because Melo will catch jealous feelings and run these good character guys out of town, like with Jeremy Lin,

Jeremy Lin is exactly the player you are describing, but Melo couldn't deal with it.


This is about the 1000th time ive read this. Where was this ever said aside from some rumors? There was also a rumor that Lin became arrogant and that pissed off his Knick teammates. Do we believe that too? Or only the ones that about Melo?

Only about Melo, because Lin is a good guy and a good teammate. He's battled adversity and racism in the hoops game all his life, and he continues to persevere because of his outstanding character.

Melo is the type of guy that has a huge painting of himself hanging above his fireplace (true story, google it). I think that tells you all you need to know.


Lol I googled it and thats pretty bad. Wow.

Honestly it sounds like you like Lin so you believe the good about him and you dont like Melo so you believe the bad. You cant speak much about how good of a guy he is when you dont even know him.

That's true. I do like Lin and I don't like Melo.

And I don't know either guy.

I just know little bits and pieces from here and there and I form a picture from this stuff.

I use what I have learned from my own education, my personal observations and general life experience to assess these guys. Am I perfect? No, but I do know that I have a good head on my shoulders and I trust my judgement. That's all, man.

What if you walked into a person's house you've never met before, maybe for a party or something, and they had a picture of themselves above the fireplace? What sort of things would go through your head? That's what I'm talking about.

The Will, check out the Official Home of Will's GameDay Art: http://tinyurl.com/thewillgameday
CrushAlot
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3/12/2013  7:38 PM
IronWillGiroud wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
IronWillGiroud wrote:we can't do that briggs, because Melo will catch jealous feelings and run these good character guys out of town, like with Jeremy Lin,

Jeremy Lin is exactly the player you are describing, but Melo couldn't deal with it.

Melo was brilliant when he negotiated Lin's contract so that it was almost impossible for the Knicks to match. I heard he advised him to fire his long time agent and skip the USA Select Team because of his upcoming free agency as well.

Yea yea, you and I BOTH KNOW what I'm talking about CrushAlot! Now you're gonna demand I provide facts to backup my points, but obviously no one can prove these things.

Just put two and two together and you will get the picture.

1. fire your agent. 2. Skip the USA Select Games because you are a free agent. I will add a third. Your new agent when hired tells the media he does not know enough about the situation when asked if Lin will resign with the Knicks.

I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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3/12/2013  7:38 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Each position must be a player who can score pass and handle. Melo is forced to take 20 shots because we dont have enough scoring. Denver and the Spurs are good examples of this--any given night--you can have a guy score 20 and there is no dependance on 1 player. We put complete focus on what someone from the Knicks organization believed would beat Miami and forgot that there are 30 teams. We have a great player in Melo--if you look back at the Olympics he was a top 3 player. But on a team where he needs to really score 30---it wont work hes not a Kobe type. As much as Im back and forth with JR Smith because we simply dont have the scorers --I think that he should be a s+t candidate or just let him go. His character is not good enough.

WHY?? wOODSON IS ON RECORD SAYING MULTIPLE TIMES HE "WANTS" MELO TO DO THE BULK OF THE SHOOTING (HIS ACTIONS SHOW THAT THIS INCLUDES GAMES WHERE MELO IS SHOOTING 5-23) SO WHAT WOULD THESE MOBILE SKILLED SCORERS BE DOING ON OUR TEAM?

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
TeamBall
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3/12/2013  7:42 PM
IronWillGiroud wrote:That's true. I do like Lin and I don't like Melo.

And I don't know either guy.

I just know little bits and pieces from here and there and I form a picture from this stuff.

I use what I have learned from my own education, my personal observations and general life experience to assess these guys. Am I perfect? No, but I do know that I have a good head on my shoulders and I trust my judgement. That's all, man.

What if you walked into a person's house you've never met before, maybe for a party or something, and they had a picture of themselves above the fireplace? What sort of things would go through your head? That's what I'm talking about.


Theres nothing wrong with trusting your judgement but there may be something wrong with forming an opinion on someone without knowing all the facts. I'll admit, if I went through the scenario in your last paragraph, I'd laugh at their arrogance. I could be wrong though. It could have been gift or something. But are you saying that Melo having a picture over his fireplace leads you to believe he ran Lin out of town?
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3/12/2013  7:45 PM
TeamBall wrote:
IronWillGiroud wrote:That's true. I do like Lin and I don't like Melo.

And I don't know either guy.

I just know little bits and pieces from here and there and I form a picture from this stuff.

I use what I have learned from my own education, my personal observations and general life experience to assess these guys. Am I perfect? No, but I do know that I have a good head on my shoulders and I trust my judgement. That's all, man.

What if you walked into a person's house you've never met before, maybe for a party or something, and they had a picture of themselves above the fireplace? What sort of things would go through your head? That's what I'm talking about.


Theres nothing wrong with trusting your judgement but there may be something wrong with forming an opinion on someone without knowing all the facts. I'll admit, if I went through the scenario in your last paragraph, I'd laugh at their arrogance. I could be wrong though. It could have been gift or something. But are you saying that Melo having a picture over his fireplace leads you to believe he ran Lin out of town?

Lol of course I'm not saying that, let's not insult each other.

And of course I can never provide you with the paper trail, I could never go in front of a jury and prove these things, of course not.

At the same time, it's not unreasonable to smell this fishy smell and follow the bread crumbs to the cookie house

The Will, check out the Official Home of Will's GameDay Art: http://tinyurl.com/thewillgameday
TeamBall
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3/12/2013  7:48 PM
IronWillGiroud wrote:Lol of course I'm not saying that, let's not insult each other.

And of course I can never provide you with the paper trail, I could never go in front of a jury and prove these things, of course not.

At the same time, it's not unreasonable to smell this fishy smell and follow the bread crumbs to the cookie house


No insulting at all. This is actually a pretty civilized discussion. I just never understood how Melo all of the sudden got blamed for what happened with Lin and was seeking an answer.
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3/12/2013  7:57 PM
Surround or replace?
Papabear
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3/12/2013  8:21 PM
IronWillGiroud wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
IronWillGiroud wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
IronWillGiroud wrote:we can't do that briggs, because Melo will catch jealous feelings and run these good character guys out of town, like with Jeremy Lin,

Jeremy Lin is exactly the player you are describing, but Melo couldn't deal with it.


This is about the 1000th time ive read this. Where was this ever said aside from some rumors? There was also a rumor that Lin became arrogant and that pissed off his Knick teammates. Do we believe that too? Or only the ones that about Melo?

Only about Melo, because Lin is a good guy and a good teammate. He's battled adversity and racism in the hoops game all his life, and he continues to persevere because of his outstanding character.

Melo is the type of guy that has a huge painting of himself hanging above his fireplace (true story, google it). I think that tells you all you need to know.


Lol I googled it and thats pretty bad. Wow.

Honestly it sounds like you like Lin so you believe the good about him and you dont like Melo so you believe the bad. You cant speak much about how good of a guy he is when you dont even know him.

That's true. I do like Lin and I don't like Melo.

And I don't know either guy.

I just know little bits and pieces from here and there and I form a picture from this stuff.

I use what I have learned from my own education, my personal observations and general life experience to assess these guys. Am I perfect? No, but I do know that I have a good head on my shoulders and I trust my judgement. That's all, man.

What if you walked into a person's house you've never met before, maybe for a party or something, and they had a picture of themselves above the fireplace? What sort of things would go through your head? That's what I'm talking about.

Papabear Says

I heard Melo has done a lot for his community. He has given up his time and money to help people. So you choose to like Lin who if Houston would have offered Lin 25 million in the begining Dolan would have matched it but Lin was slick. He didn't want to come back to New York. You like him and that's just fine. But you don't really know him or Melo. I only know that Melo has put his money where his mouth is in poor communities where he used to live and other places. Personally I like them both.

Papabear
knickstorrents
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3/12/2013  11:24 PM
Papabear wrote:
Papabear Says

I heard Melo has done a lot for his community. He has given up his time and money to help people. So you choose to like Lin who if Houston would have offered Lin 25 million in the begining Dolan would have matched it but Lin was slick. He didn't want to come back to New York. You like him and that's just fine. But you don't really know him or Melo. I only know that Melo has put his money where his mouth is in poor communities where he used to live and other places. Personally I like them both.

Wow do people really believe this?

Anyway back to the original topic, Denver actually did try to surround Melo with those pieces.... Nene very mobile scorer, Chauncey Billups character guy, Andre Miller not very mobile but very good floor general/ good character, Camby rock solid defender, probably best defensive center in the league for a while. Oh K-Mart and JR Smith (haha) too, I never really liked them but some people do. Probably the player I liked most from those days was Earl Boykins - mobile, high character, ice under pressure, but he's probably retired.

It never really did work out, even with all those pieces did it? I'm not sure you can surround an alpha player with players that you want him to emulate and have that work. It didn't work for Philly with Iverson either.

Rose is not the answer.
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3/12/2013  11:30 PM
knickstorrents wrote:
Papabear wrote:
Papabear Says

I heard Melo has done a lot for his community. He has given up his time and money to help people. So you choose to like Lin who if Houston would have offered Lin 25 million in the begining Dolan would have matched it but Lin was slick. He didn't want to come back to New York. You like him and that's just fine. But you don't really know him or Melo. I only know that Melo has put his money where his mouth is in poor communities where he used to live and other places. Personally I like them both.

Wow do people really believe this?

Anyway back to the original topic, Denver actually did try to surround Melo with those pieces.... Nene very mobile scorer, Chauncey Billups character guy, Andre Miller not very mobile but very good floor general/ good character, Camby rock solid defender, probably best defensive center in the league for a while. Oh K-Mart and JR Smith (haha) too, I never really liked them but some people do. Probably the player I liked most from those days was Earl Boykins - mobile, high character, ice under pressure, but he's probably retired.

It never really did work out, even with all those pieces did it? I'm not sure you can surround an alpha player with players that you want him to emulate and have that work. It didn't work for Philly with Iverson either.

What do you mean it didn't work? They went to the WCF in the difficult west. That team would have made the finals in the east. You act like 6 teams win the title every year or if you don't win it all it was an unsuccessful season. Melo led that team to a great season. Many many stars did not win nba championships in their careers. Are you going to discredit Malone stockton Barkley etc and say it never really worked for them?

BRIGGS
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3/12/2013  11:39 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:Surround or replace?

We'll they have to make that determination after the season. With 57mm going to the *big three*(and an additional 12 mm to Kidd Novak Felton) the only assets we have are one 20 something first rounder and 3mm$ --it certainly will be nearly impossible. We'll have to evaluate the team going down the stretch. I really thought our best chance at doing anything was this year. How does the oldest team in the league improve by getting older?
If we cant get to the ECF with or without Amare--tough decisions will need to be made. We sold our soul for Carmelo and our owner's main function is to sell a playoff team to fans who pay a LOT in ticket$$$. I really do believe that Isiah Thomas is in the ear of Dolan--the Carmelo trade --atleast to me stinks of IT's hands on it.

RIP Crushalot😞
Need to surround Melo with mobile skilled scorers with good charchater

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