blkexec wrote:

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:if anyone claims it was a mistake to acquire stoudemire as a free agent requiring only cash, then how can acquiring carmelo anthony-- through a team-gutting trade AND paying max money-- not simply compound the problem, making it impossible for the knicks to truly contend? tkf is right: you have two players with the exact same flaws and who occupy the same space on the floor. they are redundant and the team continues to have a hard time gelling.

the team before february 2011 was not broke so why try to fix it?

knicks lack youth, have injuries, and therefore lack depth. are these dudes going to have anything but fumes to run on come playoff time?

exactly, and for fans to complain about injuries with this team is like buying a 10 year old car with 350k miles on it and complaining about repair problems.. really? like you didn't expect a car with almost a half a million miles to have some issues?

I mean if anyone in here is over 35 years old you understand how hard it is to stay in peak shape.. I work out every day and when I play ball with my son, I need two days recovery.. forget these guys playing at the pro level and I don't care how good of an athlete they were, time is a mother... when you are 39, 40 and you are being counted on to play heavy minutes or a big part in a rotation, that team is taking a huge risk... the knicks have 3 guys nearing that age that they counted on, and now just signed kenyon who has 50 year old knees..... I just don't get what this team has done the past few years..

I just turned 40 and balling like I usually do. But I agree with you as far as taking a few days to recover. I disagree with the negative response on adding the old vets. If you are going to have an old team, then you need to have a deep old team, so that half will be injured, the other half will be healthy. They will all take turns. This is also a sign from management that they are trying to win it all this year or next. So I have no problem with adding Kenyon, whos actually the younger one of the old knicks. Even with 50 yr old knees.

The NBA is a young mans game.. it is.. you need vets, but the core of your team needs to be younger... the knicks are an old team, age wise, and injury wise... having a deep old team, makes you deep, but you are still old.. that is the problem.... the knicks don't have enough young pieces to overcome...

the clippers have a good amount of older vets, but they are also loaded with enough young ones.. the knicks lack balance.. even our young guys, shumpert are coming off catastrophic injuries.. that is not good my man...

tkf wrote:

blkexec wrote:

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:if anyone claims it was a mistake to acquire stoudemire as a free agent requiring only cash, then how can acquiring carmelo anthony-- through a team-gutting trade AND paying max money-- not simply compound the problem, making it impossible for the knicks to truly contend? tkf is right: you have two players with the exact same flaws and who occupy the same space on the floor. they are redundant and the team continues to have a hard time gelling.

the team before february 2011 was not broke so why try to fix it?

knicks lack youth, have injuries, and therefore lack depth. are these dudes going to have anything but fumes to run on come playoff time?

exactly, and for fans to complain about injuries with this team is like buying a 10 year old car with 350k miles on it and complaining about repair problems.. really? like you didn't expect a car with almost a half a million miles to have some issues?

I mean if anyone in here is over 35 years old you understand how hard it is to stay in peak shape.. I work out every day and when I play ball with my son, I need two days recovery.. forget these guys playing at the pro level and I don't care how good of an athlete they were, time is a mother... when you are 39, 40 and you are being counted on to play heavy minutes or a big part in a rotation, that team is taking a huge risk... the knicks have 3 guys nearing that age that they counted on, and now just signed kenyon who has 50 year old knees..... I just don't get what this team has done the past few years..

I just turned 40 and balling like I usually do. But I agree with you as far as taking a few days to recover. I disagree with the negative response on adding the old vets. If you are going to have an old team, then you need to have a deep old team, so that half will be injured, the other half will be healthy. They will all take turns. This is also a sign from management that they are trying to win it all this year or next. So I have no problem with adding Kenyon, whos actually the younger one of the old knicks. Even with 50 yr old knees.

The NBA is a young mans game.. it is.. you need vets, but the core of your team needs to be younger... the knicks are an old team, age wise, and injury wise... having a deep old team, makes you deep, but you are still old.. that is the problem.... the knicks don't have enough young pieces to overcome...

the clippers have a good amount of older vets, but they are also loaded with enough young ones.. the knicks lack balance.. even our young guys, shumpert are coming off catastrophic injuries.. that is not good my man...

Now I agree with that....Knicks lack balance....old vs young. I disagree that it's a young mans game. Maybe because I'm old and sticking up for the old guys. But when I was young, jumping out the gym....My impact on the game was less than it is now. Because my IQ makes up for my lack of explosiveness...But I agree...need more balance of young vs old.

The Clippers are an exception....It's very difficult to have that good of a mix of young vs old, where both young and old have loads of talent and IQ. Thats not normal. The Knicks are trying to get that balance, but it's not that easy to do in a short time frame.

The backup plan is to either load up the team with rookies, surrounded by Melo, stat and chandler.
Or
Surround these guys with vets.

If I'm starving for a championship right now, I'm adding vets.....Knicks have been in starving mode for over 10 years.....Now they actually have the food to eat, so might as well go all in.

blkexec wrote:

tkf wrote:

blkexec wrote:

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:if anyone claims it was a mistake to acquire stoudemire as a free agent requiring only cash, then how can acquiring carmelo anthony-- through a team-gutting trade AND paying max money-- not simply compound the problem, making it impossible for the knicks to truly contend? tkf is right: you have two players with the exact same flaws and who occupy the same space on the floor. they are redundant and the team continues to have a hard time gelling.

the team before february 2011 was not broke so why try to fix it?

knicks lack youth, have injuries, and therefore lack depth. are these dudes going to have anything but fumes to run on come playoff time?

exactly, and for fans to complain about injuries with this team is like buying a 10 year old car with 350k miles on it and complaining about repair problems.. really? like you didn't expect a car with almost a half a million miles to have some issues?

I mean if anyone in here is over 35 years old you understand how hard it is to stay in peak shape.. I work out every day and when I play ball with my son, I need two days recovery.. forget these guys playing at the pro level and I don't care how good of an athlete they were, time is a mother... when you are 39, 40 and you are being counted on to play heavy minutes or a big part in a rotation, that team is taking a huge risk... the knicks have 3 guys nearing that age that they counted on, and now just signed kenyon who has 50 year old knees..... I just don't get what this team has done the past few years..

I just turned 40 and balling like I usually do. But I agree with you as far as taking a few days to recover. I disagree with the negative response on adding the old vets. If you are going to have an old team, then you need to have a deep old team, so that half will be injured, the other half will be healthy. They will all take turns. This is also a sign from management that they are trying to win it all this year or next. So I have no problem with adding Kenyon, whos actually the younger one of the old knicks. Even with 50 yr old knees.

The NBA is a young mans game.. it is.. you need vets, but the core of your team needs to be younger... the knicks are an old team, age wise, and injury wise... having a deep old team, makes you deep, but you are still old.. that is the problem.... the knicks don't have enough young pieces to overcome...

the clippers have a good amount of older vets, but they are also loaded with enough young ones.. the knicks lack balance.. even our young guys, shumpert are coming off catastrophic injuries.. that is not good my man...

Now I agree with that....Knicks lack balance....old vs young. I disagree that it's a young mans game. Maybe because I'm old and sticking up for the old guys. But when I was young, jumping out the gym....My impact on the game was less than it is now. Because my IQ makes up for my lack of explosiveness...But I agree...need more balance of young vs old.

The Clippers are an exception....It's very difficult to have that good of a mix of young vs old, where both young and old have loads of talent and IQ. Thats not normal. The Knicks are trying to get that balance, but it's not that easy to do in a short time frame.

The backup plan is to either load up the team with rookies, surrounded by Melo, stat and chandler.
Or
Surround these guys with vets.

If I'm starving for a championship right now, I'm adding vets.....Knicks have been in starving mode for over 10 years.....Now they actually have the food to eat, so might as well go all in.

hey I am in your boat.. LOL and I feel I can give any young guy the business on the court at the gym, and I still do... My knees are good, and I am in good shape... but this is the NBA, these guys are the best,and a slight drop off is huge.... this is why I say it is a young mans game.. sure you want good vets, but there has to be a balance.. knicks don't have that.. and honestly, can you name any young player on our team that is playing his best ball? we have one.. just one.. shumpert and he is so far from being 100% at this point...

I don't think it was an either or plan.. the knicks painted themselves in that corner....this is why it is critical who you build around.. with carmelo you can't have a young team, you need someone to babysit him.. with amare you can go young, but this guy has proven to be a shoddy leader at times, and I like amare a lot.. the key here, is that we have flawed max players... add in too much age, not enough young talent, and I am not confident in this mixture..... on the flipside, the spurs are a veteran team, but look at the quality of players they have.. huge difference.... night and day.. and when I say quality I don't mean , looking at how many PPG they score.. I mean quality of overall play, level of professionalism on the court... it is galactic the difference between them and us..

classic example, vs the sixers carmelo and hawes get into a physical battle underneath, carmelo like a douchebag slaps hawes in the back of the head, when hawes turns around chandler comes in and pushes hawes.. I mean really? so carmelo gets a flagrant and chandler a tech... this is what I mean. That behavior is horrible, unprofessional, douchebaggery,moronic, idiotic....

we have the worst of both worlds.. an old, vet team that gets rattled and behaves immaturely..

when you have vets you expect them to set the tone, lead by example.. this is the biggest advantage of having vets.... we don't have that advantage, so far we have an old team, that behaves like a young team, but doesn't bring any of the good things young players bring.... that is not good at all..

both mentioning MELO

SHOCKING

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

dk7th wrote:if anyone claims it was a mistake to acquire stoudemire as a free agent requiring only cash, then how can acquiring carmelo anthony-- through a team-gutting trade AND paying max money-- not simply compound the problem, making it impossible for the knicks to truly contend? tkf is right: you have two players with the exact same flaws and who occupy the same space on the floor. they are redundant and the team continues to have a hard time gelling.

the team before february 2011 was not broke so why try to fix it?

knicks lack youth, have injuries, and therefore lack depth. are these dudes going to have anything but fumes to run on come playoff time?

Um...how about that STAT was damaged goods and we maxed him out when no one else was willing to? The problem we have with the team right now is Kidd. He's simpky not playing the way he was at the start of the year. STAT and Melo are inferior defenders but to me they seem to be playing just fine together this year.

kidd is not the problem..we should not have played him that many minutes. Kidd is soon to be 40 years old.. what are we expecting from him? the guy defends bigger players most of the time. he has to do most of the thinking for those knuckleheads on the floor when he is out there.. this is not a young jason kidd anymore.. the guy is gassed.. and that is understandable..

I'm not bagging on Kidd and it isn't his fault that he's came back down to earth. However, him not playing the way he did earlier has resulted in the product we're watching today. 100% understandable....Pablo needs more run.

THIS product we see now was inevitable... kidd, sheed, and other performances just slowed the train down.. masked the problem a bit.... it was always there.. never went away.. we just could not expect kidd to play that way for an extended period of time.. what he gave the knicks probably helped save this team from being further down the standings at this point... we should be grateful.. and playing pablo more doesn't solve the problem...

Nah, it was Amare being injured last season and the end of the season before that. Last season Amare was a shell of himself since he was injured pretty much all year. When you can't perform above a mediocre level because of injury, how are you going to develop chemistry.

tkf wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:I just saw Kerr on ESPN talking about this. He said Amare is playing great, very efficient, but the spacing we had earlier in the season with our 3pt shooters is gone. He has a good point, nothing shocking there. It really just seems like we need to get rid of Amare, which I actually think we can do if he keeps playing like this. We might be able to get back a few decent players, or a very good player with a longer contract from a team wanting a draw and perhaps to shed long term salary. So, next year, count on a different argument. "We just need time for (new players) to gel with Melo and have a camp togther." eheheh, kidding. I look forward to a team that is more cohesive in how they can play.

I like Stat, but don't think him and Melo can be on the same team, not the way we play with spacing and 3pt shooting. Not to mention just terrible defense. TKF - I think Melo can actually play good+ defense - I've seen him do it. But, he just doesn't have that will. And with the way the team is right now, he is expending too much energy on offense. Not making excuses for him, but it must be a bit demoralizing.

Still have hope once the old guys return but I am also looking forward to having a partially rebuilt team next year also.

edit - I should add, I would like to see what Amare can do in the starting lineup. Might as well see...

honestly bro, after this year, I want to empty this team top to bottom, heck I like shump but if it means getting rid of him.. fine.. i want to take a complete enema to this team.. starting with carmelo on down... to all of the coaches all of them, time to get rid of teflon herb williams too.....

now I might retract and keep shumpert.. I think he has hope of fulfilling his potential here under different circumstances....

If you don't get rid of Dolan first, it would be akin to what we see now in Politics if you get my drift. Better laws with crooks running things isn't going to help.

The thing is, Melo can take a team with talent to the championship. I am pretty sure of that. Just watching him play on the Olympics and with all stars show that. So the question is, can we add some great talent to take the pressure off him, or do we just do a complete rebuild. Since Melo is at his peak, I would take a chance to find a bit more talent before breaking things up.

We were just soooo close to having so many assets as well as some very good talent as a base before Dolan came in and took things over (apparently)...

earthmansurfer wrote:

tkf wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:I just saw Kerr on ESPN talking about this. He said Amare is playing great, very efficient, but the spacing we had earlier in the season with our 3pt shooters is gone. He has a good point, nothing shocking there. It really just seems like we need to get rid of Amare, which I actually think we can do if he keeps playing like this. We might be able to get back a few decent players, or a very good player with a longer contract from a team wanting a draw and perhaps to shed long term salary. So, next year, count on a different argument. "We just need time for (new players) to gel with Melo and have a camp togther." eheheh, kidding. I look forward to a team that is more cohesive in how they can play.

I like Stat, but don't think him and Melo can be on the same team, not the way we play with spacing and 3pt shooting. Not to mention just terrible defense. TKF - I think Melo can actually play good+ defense - I've seen him do it. But, he just doesn't have that will. And with the way the team is right now, he is expending too much energy on offense. Not making excuses for him, but it must be a bit demoralizing.

Still have hope once the old guys return but I am also looking forward to having a partially rebuilt team next year also.

edit - I should add, I would like to see what Amare can do in the starting lineup. Might as well see...

honestly bro, after this year, I want to empty this team top to bottom, heck I like shump but if it means getting rid of him.. fine.. i want to take a complete enema to this team.. starting with carmelo on down... to all of the coaches all of them, time to get rid of teflon herb williams too.....

now I might retract and keep shumpert.. I think he has hope of fulfilling his potential here under different circumstances....

If you don't get rid of Dolan first, it would be akin to what we see now in Politics if you get my drift. Better laws with crooks running things isn't going to help.

The thing is, Melo can take a team with talent to the championship. I am pretty sure of that. Just watching him play on the Olympics and with all stars show that. So the question is, can we add some great talent to take the pressure off him, or do we just do a complete rebuild. Since Melo is at his peak, I would take a chance to find a bit more talent before breaking things up.

We were just soooo close to having so many assets as well as some very good talent as a base before Dolan came in and took things over (apparently)...

then only way the knicks win a title is when melo assumes his proper role as second fiddle to a true franchise player. there is not enough time for that with him here and we certainly squandered what good karma and luck we were accruing with walsh in charge of a genuine rebuilding effort.

dolan and melo made this bed now they have to lie in it.

not that they really give ****.

tkf wrote:

blkexec wrote:

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:if anyone claims it was a mistake to acquire stoudemire as a free agent requiring only cash, then how can acquiring carmelo anthony-- through a team-gutting trade AND paying max money-- not simply compound the problem, making it impossible for the knicks to truly contend? tkf is right: you have two players with the exact same flaws and who occupy the same space on the floor. they are redundant and the team continues to have a hard time gelling.

the team before february 2011 was not broke so why try to fix it?

knicks lack youth, have injuries, and therefore lack depth. are these dudes going to have anything but fumes to run on come playoff time?

exactly, and for fans to complain about injuries with this team is like buying a 10 year old car with 350k miles on it and complaining about repair problems.. really? like you didn't expect a car with almost a half a million miles to have some issues?

I mean if anyone in here is over 35 years old you understand how hard it is to stay in peak shape.. I work out every day and when I play ball with my son, I need two days recovery.. forget these guys playing at the pro level and I don't care how good of an athlete they were, time is a mother... when you are 39, 40 and you are being counted on to play heavy minutes or a big part in a rotation, that team is taking a huge risk... the knicks have 3 guys nearing that age that they counted on, and now just signed kenyon who has 50 year old knees..... I just don't get what this team has done the past few years..

I just turned 40 and balling like I usually do. But I agree with you as far as taking a few days to recover. I disagree with the negative response on adding the old vets. If you are going to have an old team, then you need to have a deep old team, so that half will be injured, the other half will be healthy. They will all take turns. This is also a sign from management that they are trying to win it all this year or next. So I have no problem with adding Kenyon, whos actually the younger one of the old knicks. Even with 50 yr old knees.

The NBA is a young mans game.. it is.. you need vets, but the core of your team needs to be younger... the knicks are an old team, age wise, and injury wise... having a deep old team, makes you deep, but you are still old.. that is the problem.... the knicks don't have enough young pieces to overcome...

the clippers have a good amount of older vets, but they are also loaded with enough young ones.. the knicks lack balance.. even our young guys, shumpert are coming off catastrophic injuries.. that is not good my man...

We're like the Old Rockets team with Pippen/Barkley/Olajuwon/Johnson

We're like the Old Blazers team with Pippen/Kemp/Smith/Dale Davis

earthmansurfer wrote:

tkf wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:I just saw Kerr on ESPN talking about this. He said Amare is playing great, very efficient, but the spacing we had earlier in the season with our 3pt shooters is gone. He has a good point, nothing shocking there. It really just seems like we need to get rid of Amare, which I actually think we can do if he keeps playing like this. We might be able to get back a few decent players, or a very good player with a longer contract from a team wanting a draw and perhaps to shed long term salary. So, next year, count on a different argument. "We just need time for (new players) to gel with Melo and have a camp togther." eheheh, kidding. I look forward to a team that is more cohesive in how they can play.

I like Stat, but don't think him and Melo can be on the same team, not the way we play with spacing and 3pt shooting. Not to mention just terrible defense. TKF - I think Melo can actually play good+ defense - I've seen him do it. But, he just doesn't have that will. And with the way the team is right now, he is expending too much energy on offense. Not making excuses for him, but it must be a bit demoralizing.

Still have hope once the old guys return but I am also looking forward to having a partially rebuilt team next year also.

edit - I should add, I would like to see what Amare can do in the starting lineup. Might as well see...

honestly bro, after this year, I want to empty this team top to bottom, heck I like shump but if it means getting rid of him.. fine.. i want to take a complete enema to this team.. starting with carmelo on down... to all of the coaches all of them, time to get rid of teflon herb williams too.....

now I might retract and keep shumpert.. I think he has hope of fulfilling his potential here under different circumstances....

If you don't get rid of Dolan first, it would be akin to what we see now in Politics if you get my drift. Better laws with crooks running things isn't going to help.

The thing is, Melo can take a team with talent to the championship. I am pretty sure of that. Just watching him play on the Olympics and with all stars show that. So the question is, can we add some great talent to take the pressure off him, or do we just do a complete rebuild. Since Melo is at his peak, I would take a chance to find a bit more talent before breaking things up.

We were just soooo close to having so many assets as well as some very good talent as a base before Dolan came in and took things over (apparently)...

If you don't get rid of Dolan first, it would be akin to what we see now in Politics if you get my drift. Better laws with crooks running things isn't going to help.

that is a great point.. one in which I can't argue against..... which is why i said, maybe by accident we luck out. LOL

The thing is, Melo can take a team with talent to the championship. I am pretty sure of that. Just watching him play on the Olympics and with all stars show that.

this I don't agree with.. the olympics has nothing to do with the NBA.. it is almost the same thing as saying david lee can lead a team of guys to a championship because he was mvp of the rookie sophmore game..... yea, maybe a bit extreme, but you get my point... the olympics is absolutely no indication of what a guy can do leading a team to a championship in the NBA... Honestly, I think I would look Great right now playing with kobe, lebron, wade and durant... i have absolutely no faith in carmelo leading a team to a championship... he may be able to play on a team that wins one, but by no means will he be leading that team.... hey, maybe I will be proven wrong.. I am willing to take that chance tho.... which is why I say what I say about him...