CrushAlot wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:I can't cheer up right now, sorry bro

Maybe this will help. Last year the 8-0 linsanity run had its final win on 2/15 to pull the Knicks to 15-15. In 2010, the glory year full of potential etc. the Knicks were 27-26 on 2/15. In 2009 the Knicks were 19-33 and not playing the picks because they were chasing the playoffs. This year the Knicks are 32-18, in first in the atlantic and in second place in the east. +13 wins on any of the last 3 years. If you went back farther its plus 13 on at least the last 8 years at the all star break. The Knicks aren't on the outside hoping to go on the run to get the eight spot. They are competing for the 1 seed.

Everyone already knows this team used to be really bad. If we had a young team, then going from really bad to above average, would be a nice reason for optimism. Here, if all we end up as is an above average team that wins 1 or 2 playoff series and then declines, that seems pointless.

+1 And not only would it be pointless it would be pretty hopeless too. With a veteran team like ours there's very little room for improvement among our current players; a young team like OKC was, and is, their players are still growing and improving while ours pretty much are what they are. Unfortunately, if we're not good enough to be a true contender now, and considering that Dolan will almost certainly not agree to a rebuild, we probably aren't going to be good enough to win a championship at any point through 2020 since most of our core players are almost certainly going to be resigned when they become free agents in a few years.

I would rather be in the mix then waiting to fulfill potential. OKC got three amazing lottery picks and hit a home run with Durant. The Knicks recent lottery picks were Gallo and Hill. I don't see the argument that the Knicks gave up young players that were going to lead the them to a championship. I think the reality of the Lin poison pill should start to become easier to understand when guys like Harden and Gay are getting dumped because of the new cba. The other big potential guys I hear about are Gallo, Chandler and Moz. Gallo is definitely a starter and maybe more. He is having a really good year and he is staying healthy but that has not been the case for his career. Chandler has been struggling, was a great Knick but at this point he is a rotation guy that might get back to starter status. Moz is a notmucher at this point. Last years youth that left, Fields, Jorts and Jordan have not done much. Fields has a ridiculous contract, has been injured and is job sharing with Alan Anderson. The other two are not in the league.

Do you know why they were able to get those 3 guys? Because Seattle/OKC actually committed to tanking those years and getting higher draft picks whereas we tried to win games in pointless seasons. Those three years that Seattle/OKC made those picks they finished with 31, 20, and 23 wins; we finished with 33, 23, and 32 wins. In 2007 we, of course, didn't have our own pick so it didn't matter where we finished but take a look at the 2008 and 2009 drafts http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2008.html, http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2009.html. The guys picked just ahead of us? Kevin Love and Stephen Curry.

And I didn't believe that those guys we traded were going to carry us to a championship but what we did lose in that trade and in the subsequent decision not to match Lin's deal was opportunity. We are locked into this basic roster for at least the next 2 seasons after this one which is when Amare, Melo, and Tyson expire. But, take a look at the free agents that offseason http://www.hoopsworld.com/2015-nba-free-agents/. Is there some combination of free agents that year that would make us contenders? Bearing in mind that we would almost certainly have to waive our Bird rights to Amare and either Melo or Tyson in order to sign a big name free agent. And also realizing that we almost certainly wouldn't be able to sign any RFA's, like Kyrie Irving, because their teams would match any contract offer.

In my opinion, even when we'll have the chance to retool in 2015 we won't. Dolan will not allow us to tank for even one season so we should probably expect to see Melo, Tyson, Felton, JR, and maybe Shumpert all wearing orange and blue through 2020. And if that core isn't good enough to win a championship, and I don't believe it is, then we'll have wasted another decade for nothing.

In the second half, the Knicks have a murderers' row of nine back-to-backs in their final 32 games. One out of every four of their final games is against a team currently in the top four of their conference. They have two more against the rival Celtics and Heat and a combined five games against Denver, Golden State and Utah -- three Western Conference playoff teams.

(From ESPN)

Someone asked Tyson Chandler about the second half of the season this week. Before the question was finished, the Knicks center just smiled and said, "It's tough. It's just tough."

VCoug wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:I can't cheer up right now, sorry bro

Maybe this will help. Last year the 8-0 linsanity run had its final win on 2/15 to pull the Knicks to 15-15. In 2010, the glory year full of potential etc. the Knicks were 27-26 on 2/15. In 2009 the Knicks were 19-33 and not playing the picks because they were chasing the playoffs. This year the Knicks are 32-18, in first in the atlantic and in second place in the east. +13 wins on any of the last 3 years. If you went back farther its plus 13 on at least the last 8 years at the all star break. The Knicks aren't on the outside hoping to go on the run to get the eight spot. They are competing for the 1 seed.

Everyone already knows this team used to be really bad. If we had a young team, then going from really bad to above average, would be a nice reason for optimism. Here, if all we end up as is an above average team that wins 1 or 2 playoff series and then declines, that seems pointless.

+1 And not only would it be pointless it would be pretty hopeless too. With a veteran team like ours there's very little room for improvement among our current players; a young team like OKC was, and is, their players are still growing and improving while ours pretty much are what they are. Unfortunately, if we're not good enough to be a true contender now, and considering that Dolan will almost certainly not agree to a rebuild, we probably aren't going to be good enough to win a championship at any point through 2020 since most of our core players are almost certainly going to be resigned when they become free agents in a few years.

I would rather be in the mix then waiting to fulfill potential. OKC got three amazing lottery picks and hit a home run with Durant. The Knicks recent lottery picks were Gallo and Hill. I don't see the argument that the Knicks gave up young players that were going to lead the them to a championship. I think the reality of the Lin poison pill should start to become easier to understand when guys like Harden and Gay are getting dumped because of the new cba. The other big potential guys I hear about are Gallo, Chandler and Moz. Gallo is definitely a starter and maybe more. He is having a really good year and he is staying healthy but that has not been the case for his career. Chandler has been struggling, was a great Knick but at this point he is a rotation guy that might get back to starter status. Moz is a notmucher at this point. Last years youth that left, Fields, Jorts and Jordan have not done much. Fields has a ridiculous contract, has been injured and is job sharing with Alan Anderson. The other two are not in the league.

Do you know why they were able to get those 3 guys? Because Seattle/OKC actually committed to tanking those years and getting higher draft picks whereas we tried to win games in pointless seasons. Those three years that Seattle/OKC made those picks they finished with 31, 20, and 23 wins; we finished with 33, 23, and 32 wins. In 2007 we, of course, didn't have our own pick so it didn't matter where we finished but take a look at the 2008 and 2009 drafts http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2008.html, http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2009.html. The guys picked just ahead of us? Kevin Love and Stephen Curry.

And I didn't believe that those guys we traded were going to carry us to a championship but what we did lose in that trade and in the subsequent decision not to match Lin's deal was opportunity. We are locked into this basic roster for at least the next 2 seasons after this one which is when Amare, Melo, and Tyson expire. But, take a look at the free agents that offseason http://www.hoopsworld.com/2015-nba-free-agents/. Is there some combination of free agents that year that would make us contenders? Bearing in mind that we would almost certainly have to waive our Bird rights to Amare and either Melo or Tyson in order to sign a big name free agent. And also realizing that we almost certainly wouldn't be able to sign any RFA's, like Kyrie Irving, because their teams would match any contract offer.

In my opinion, even when we'll have the chance to retool in 2015 we won't. Dolan will not allow us to tank for even one season so we should probably expect to see Melo, Tyson, Felton, JR, and maybe Shumpert all wearing orange and blue through 2020. And if that core isn't good enough to win a championship, and I don't believe it is, then we'll have wasted another decade for nothing.

The collective bargaining agreement will impact decisions

The Oklahoma City Thunder couldn’t afford James Harden so they traded him to the Houston Rockets. The Memphis Grizzlies couldn’t afford Rudy Gay so they traded him to the Toronto Raptors. The NBA’s new collective bargaining agreement is already reshaping the league. It’s becoming harder and harder for super teams to assemble (or remain assembled), and it will only get more difficult going forward.

The luxury tax scares some teams, but the repeater tax scares all teams. While teams like Oklahoma City and Memphis can’t afford to pay $1 for every $1 they’re above the luxury tax threshold, that’s not much of a deterrent for a large-market team. However, when a team pays the luxury tax in four out of five seasons, they’ll be designated as repeat offenders and will have to pay an incremental tax that increases with every $5 million that they’re above the threshold. Rather than paying $1 for every $1 above the tax, repeaters would have to pay something like $2.50, $2.75, $3.50 or $4.25 for every $1 above the tax.

This will certainly impact the NBA’s trade market. It could also mean that current super teams, such as the Miami HEAT, may have to be broken up for financial reasons.

Read more at http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-pm-the-trade-deadline-guide/#RKYMD2VTfYE9vzhM.99

VCoug wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

VCoug wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:I can't cheer up right now, sorry bro

Maybe this will help. Last year the 8-0 linsanity run had its final win on 2/15 to pull the Knicks to 15-15. In 2010, the glory year full of potential etc. the Knicks were 27-26 on 2/15. In 2009 the Knicks were 19-33 and not playing the picks because they were chasing the playoffs. This year the Knicks are 32-18, in first in the atlantic and in second place in the east. +13 wins on any of the last 3 years. If you went back farther its plus 13 on at least the last 8 years at the all star break. The Knicks aren't on the outside hoping to go on the run to get the eight spot. They are competing for the 1 seed.

Everyone already knows this team used to be really bad. If we had a young team, then going from really bad to above average, would be a nice reason for optimism. Here, if all we end up as is an above average team that wins 1 or 2 playoff series and then declines, that seems pointless.

+1 And not only would it be pointless it would be pretty hopeless too. With a veteran team like ours there's very little room for improvement among our current players; a young team like OKC was, and is, their players are still growing and improving while ours pretty much are what they are. Unfortunately, if we're not good enough to be a true contender now, and considering that Dolan will almost certainly not agree to a rebuild, we probably aren't going to be good enough to win a championship at any point through 2020 since most of our core players are almost certainly going to be resigned when they become free agents in a few years.

I would rather be in the mix then waiting to fulfill potential. OKC got three amazing lottery picks and hit a home run with Durant. The Knicks recent lottery picks were Gallo and Hill. I don't see the argument that the Knicks gave up young players that were going to lead the them to a championship. I think the reality of the Lin poison pill should start to become easier to understand when guys like Harden and Gay are getting dumped because of the new cba. The other big potential guys I hear about are Gallo, Chandler and Moz. Gallo is definitely a starter and maybe more. He is having a really good year and he is staying healthy but that has not been the case for his career. Chandler has been struggling, was a great Knick but at this point he is a rotation guy that might get back to starter status. Moz is a notmucher at this point. Last years youth that left, Fields, Jorts and Jordan have not done much. Fields has a ridiculous contract, has been injured and is job sharing with Alan Anderson. The other two are not in the league.

Do you know why they were able to get those 3 guys? Because Seattle/OKC actually committed to tanking those years and getting higher draft picks whereas we tried to win games in pointless seasons. Those three years that Seattle/OKC made those picks they finished with 31, 20, and 23 wins; we finished with 33, 23, and 32 wins. In 2007 we, of course, didn't have our own pick so it didn't matter where we finished but take a look at the 2008 and 2009 drafts http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2008.html, http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2009.html. The guys picked just ahead of us? Kevin Love and Stephen Curry.

And I didn't believe that those guys we traded were going to carry us to a championship but what we did lose in that trade and in the subsequent decision not to match Lin's deal was opportunity. We are locked into this basic roster for at least the next 2 seasons after this one which is when Amare, Melo, and Tyson expire. But, take a look at the free agents that offseason http://www.hoopsworld.com/2015-nba-free-agents/. Is there some combination of free agents that year that would make us contenders? Bearing in mind that we would almost certainly have to waive our Bird rights to Amare and either Melo or Tyson in order to sign a big name free agent. And also realizing that we almost certainly wouldn't be able to sign any RFA's, like Kyrie Irving, because their teams would match any contract offer.

In my opinion, even when we'll have the chance to retool in 2015 we won't. Dolan will not allow us to tank for even one season so we should probably expect to see Melo, Tyson, Felton, JR, and maybe Shumpert all wearing orange and blue through 2020. And if that core isn't good enough to win a championship, and I don't believe it is, then we'll have wasted another decade for nothing.

So after tanking for two years, drafting Hill and Gallo and trading away picks the Knicks were supposed to tank somemore? Lin went all in with the Rockets. Nothing wrong with that. He may never see money like that again but he the Knicks couldn't match his deal. Look at what Memphis and OKC did because of the new cba.

The collective bargaining agreement will impact decisions

The Oklahoma City Thunder couldn’t afford James Harden so they traded him to the Houston Rockets. The Memphis Grizzlies couldn’t afford Rudy Gay so they traded him to the Toronto Raptors. The NBA’s new collective bargaining agreement is already reshaping the league. It’s becoming harder and harder for super teams to assemble (or remain assembled), and it will only get more difficult going forward.

The luxury tax scares some teams, but the repeater tax scares all teams. While teams like Oklahoma City and Memphis can’t afford to pay $1 for every $1 they’re above the luxury tax threshold, that’s not much of a deterrent for a large-market team. However, when a team pays the luxury tax in four out of five seasons, they’ll be designated as repeat offenders and will have to pay an incremental tax that increases with every $5 million that they’re above the threshold. Rather than paying $1 for every $1 above the tax, repeaters would have to pay something like $2.50, $2.75, $3.50 or $4.25 for every $1 above the tax.

This will certainly impact the NBA’s trade market. It could also mean that current super teams, such as the Miami HEAT, may have to be broken up for financial reasons.

Read more at http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-pm-the-trade-deadline-guide/#RKYMD2VTfYE9vzhM.99

First off, we didn't tank that was part of the problem. And what we should have done is whatever it takes to make us actual title contenders. And OKC and Memphis are small market teams, they've always had problems with the salary cap and luxury tax; that's not new with the current CBA. Dolan charges $72 for the bar stools at the top of the arena and the money made and spent on his sports holdings, Knicks, Rangers, and MSG, are a drop in the bucket of his overall worth and the Cablevision empire. For some reason the Lakers don't seem to have the same worries about the luxury tax that we apparently do.

Rather than paying $1 for every $1 above the tax, repeaters would have to pay something like $2.50, $2.75, $3.50 or $4.25 for every $1 above the tax.

VCoug wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

VCoug wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

VCoug wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:I can't cheer up right now, sorry bro

Maybe this will help. Last year the 8-0 linsanity run had its final win on 2/15 to pull the Knicks to 15-15. In 2010, the glory year full of potential etc. the Knicks were 27-26 on 2/15. In 2009 the Knicks were 19-33 and not playing the picks because they were chasing the playoffs. This year the Knicks are 32-18, in first in the atlantic and in second place in the east. +13 wins on any of the last 3 years. If you went back farther its plus 13 on at least the last 8 years at the all star break. The Knicks aren't on the outside hoping to go on the run to get the eight spot. They are competing for the 1 seed.

Everyone already knows this team used to be really bad. If we had a young team, then going from really bad to above average, would be a nice reason for optimism. Here, if all we end up as is an above average team that wins 1 or 2 playoff series and then declines, that seems pointless.

+1 And not only would it be pointless it would be pretty hopeless too. With a veteran team like ours there's very little room for improvement among our current players; a young team like OKC was, and is, their players are still growing and improving while ours pretty much are what they are. Unfortunately, if we're not good enough to be a true contender now, and considering that Dolan will almost certainly not agree to a rebuild, we probably aren't going to be good enough to win a championship at any point through 2020 since most of our core players are almost certainly going to be resigned when they become free agents in a few years.

I would rather be in the mix then waiting to fulfill potential. OKC got three amazing lottery picks and hit a home run with Durant. The Knicks recent lottery picks were Gallo and Hill. I don't see the argument that the Knicks gave up young players that were going to lead the them to a championship. I think the reality of the Lin poison pill should start to become easier to understand when guys like Harden and Gay are getting dumped because of the new cba. The other big potential guys I hear about are Gallo, Chandler and Moz. Gallo is definitely a starter and maybe more. He is having a really good year and he is staying healthy but that has not been the case for his career. Chandler has been struggling, was a great Knick but at this point he is a rotation guy that might get back to starter status. Moz is a notmucher at this point. Last years youth that left, Fields, Jorts and Jordan have not done much. Fields has a ridiculous contract, has been injured and is job sharing with Alan Anderson. The other two are not in the league.

Do you know why they were able to get those 3 guys? Because Seattle/OKC actually committed to tanking those years and getting higher draft picks whereas we tried to win games in pointless seasons. Those three years that Seattle/OKC made those picks they finished with 31, 20, and 23 wins; we finished with 33, 23, and 32 wins. In 2007 we, of course, didn't have our own pick so it didn't matter where we finished but take a look at the 2008 and 2009 drafts http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2008.html, http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2009.html. The guys picked just ahead of us? Kevin Love and Stephen Curry.

And I didn't believe that those guys we traded were going to carry us to a championship but what we did lose in that trade and in the subsequent decision not to match Lin's deal was opportunity. We are locked into this basic roster for at least the next 2 seasons after this one which is when Amare, Melo, and Tyson expire. But, take a look at the free agents that offseason http://www.hoopsworld.com/2015-nba-free-agents/. Is there some combination of free agents that year that would make us contenders? Bearing in mind that we would almost certainly have to waive our Bird rights to Amare and either Melo or Tyson in order to sign a big name free agent. And also realizing that we almost certainly wouldn't be able to sign any RFA's, like Kyrie Irving, because their teams would match any contract offer.

In my opinion, even when we'll have the chance to retool in 2015 we won't. Dolan will not allow us to tank for even one season so we should probably expect to see Melo, Tyson, Felton, JR, and maybe Shumpert all wearing orange and blue through 2020. And if that core isn't good enough to win a championship, and I don't believe it is, then we'll have wasted another decade for nothing.

So after tanking for two years, drafting Hill and Gallo and trading away picks the Knicks were supposed to tank somemore? Lin went all in with the Rockets. Nothing wrong with that. He may never see money like that again but he the Knicks couldn't match his deal. Look at what Memphis and OKC did because of the new cba.

The collective bargaining agreement will impact decisions

The Oklahoma City Thunder couldn’t afford James Harden so they traded him to the Houston Rockets. The Memphis Grizzlies couldn’t afford Rudy Gay so they traded him to the Toronto Raptors. The NBA’s new collective bargaining agreement is already reshaping the league. It’s becoming harder and harder for super teams to assemble (or remain assembled), and it will only get more difficult going forward.

The luxury tax scares some teams, but the repeater tax scares all teams. While teams like Oklahoma City and Memphis can’t afford to pay $1 for every $1 they’re above the luxury tax threshold, that’s not much of a deterrent for a large-market team. However, when a team pays the luxury tax in four out of five seasons, they’ll be designated as repeat offenders and will have to pay an incremental tax that increases with every $5 million that they’re above the threshold. Rather than paying $1 for every $1 above the tax, repeaters would have to pay something like $2.50, $2.75, $3.50 or $4.25 for every $1 above the tax.

This will certainly impact the NBA’s trade market. It could also mean that current super teams, such as the Miami HEAT, may have to be broken up for financial reasons.

Read more at http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-pm-the-trade-deadline-guide/#RKYMD2VTfYE9vzhM.99

First off, we didn't tank that was part of the problem. And what we should have done is whatever it takes to make us actual title contenders. And OKC and Memphis are small market teams, they've always had problems with the salary cap and luxury tax; that's not new with the current CBA. Dolan charges $72 for the bar stools at the top of the arena and the money made and spent on his sports holdings, Knicks, Rangers, and MSG, are a drop in the bucket of his overall worth and the Cablevision empire. For some reason the Lakers don't seem to have the same worries about the luxury tax that we apparently do.

This.

Rather than paying $1 for every $1 above the tax, repeaters would have to pay something like $2.50, $2.75, $3.50 or $4.25 for every $1 above the tax.

And the fact that teams over the cap can't participate in sign and trades and can only make trades that match dollar for dollar so there was no escaping the cost of that contract. That is why Lin is making 15 mil in year three.

But we're already over the cap and that's not going to change unless we get rid of 2 of our big 3.

gunsnewing wrote:Jerome James, Larry Brown, Mcdyess, Allan Houston, Marbury, Francis etc etc etc. Dolan doesn't care about money. Except when his ego is bruised. Novak makes $4mil per Lin would've been making $5mil

gunsnewing wrote:Novak $4mil
Lin $5mil

Lin $15mil 3yrs from now in his prime?! HA!

Bonn1997 wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

VCoug wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Anything can happen in the playoffs.

Remember the Dallas Mavericks. We just need to peak at the right time.

Dallas really isn't a good example, everyone thinks they came out of nowhere because we were so accustomed to them crashing and burning in the playoffs. But, they won 57 games that year and had a top 10 offense and defense. We're only on pace for 52 wins with a very easy schedule and we have a middle of the pack defense. A better example would be if the Denver Nuggets had won the championship that season. They won 54 games, had the best offense in the league, and a mediocre defense.

Knicks
Score 100.3 PPG #10
Defend at 95.7 PPG #8
Differential +4.6 #5 in the league
#1 in turnovers per game

#2 in the East at 32-18 .640
#6 in the NBA

#17 in rebounding in diff

If we can tighten up the D and grab those bounds we're golden...

That means we're golden if a healthy Camby returns and no one else gets injured

Injuries happen to all teams at some point during the year. Hopefully our injury problems are behind us. We would be better on the boards if we just boxed out. I remember back in the day players would get killed by coaches/media for not boxing out....basketball 101. It's not just the Knicks though...sometimes todays game makes me a bit queasy. But yeah...a healthy Camby or even Sheed would help a lot.

CashMoney wrote:

tj23 wrote:I don't know does the success(or failures) of your other sports teams change your views on this team? I'm just assuming a number of you guys are either Giants and/or Yanks fans. Does that lead to higher expectations for anyone?

Nah, not for the Knicks. It's because of the winning that Yanks and GMEN have done that has allowed me to stay patient with the Knicks.